Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Greatwesternline]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

This isn't news. If the ELF banned people from running a business based on subjective things such as "they didnt think they would be good owner for the business" they'd be sued and lose every time. And what's more, Reading fans would be in up arms if the EFL vetoed a chinese billionaire from taking over based on their own gut feelings.

[Greatwesternline]

I find it strange that the football director side of the business was still going around signing players right up to *checks notes* Thursday, when we didnt have the money to do it.

Why are we signing new players when we dont have the money to pay the ones we do have and to meet the rules.

I also dont understand why so many people were clamouring for signings on deadline day when we are a club in dire financial distress, but that's a whole new level of stupid.

Why would the ELF go easy on a club for breaking its rules when the club still thinks it can go around signing new players. The administration of the club is a mess from top to bottom.

Is it that we don't have the money to do it, or is it that Dai is struggling to get the money out of China to do it? If it's the latter, then every reason as to why we should sign players still.

I genuinely believe it's a little bit of both. The club have already said that new investment is needed to help with cash flow issues, so I do believe there are issues around how much financial commitment Dai truly has to the club, along with getting money out of China.

We first failed to pay wages in December 2022. Ever since then the game has been up.

A business doesnt accidentally not pay its wages. Your cashflow forecasts for the next year will know all your outgoings and incomings, espcially in football which is extremely predictable. 95% of costs are players wages which are very very predictable.

95% of the income is TV money and season ticket money, which is known from August onwards for the rest of the year.

if we failed to pay wages in December 2022 it was because Dai was either A) losing interest or B) no longer had the funds. What happened around December, it started to become apparent we werent in a promotion race, and i suspect the EFLs investigations into a second 6 point deduction were taking shape.

The stuff about it getting harder for chinese to invest in football teams abroad came out in 2021. Long before Dai stopped bank rolling us.

The smoking gun for the beginning of our troubles points much more towards him losing interest as promotion to PL looks further away than ever, rather than it getting more difficult for him.

If anything, around the time of the world cup china started unlocking from COVID because their population saw the footage of the rest of the world unmasked enjoying the world cup. After that the Chinese economy kick started again.

[Hound]

We didn’t pay in time in October. Not sure when pay roll run etc but think we were still around the play offs then. QPR game when we went top for 10 mins was 7th October

Not that anyone realistically thought we were going up

I may be imagining this but weren’t there previous late wage payments made blamed on bank holidays or something 2-3 years ago

Been such a shitshow difficult to recall

[Green]

We didn’t pay in time in October. Not sure when pay roll run etc but think we were still around the play offs then. QPR game when we went top for 10 mins was 7th October

Not that anyone realistically thought we were going up

I may be imagining this but weren’t there previous late wage payments made blamed on bank holidays or something 2-3 years ago

Been such a shitshow difficult to recall

It's all a bit "dog ate my homework" isn't it.

[WestYorksRoyal]

That Biscuit Analytic account on Twitter claiming that Dai didn't pay the last round of wages either and that we relied upon a loan from SCL. Seems a bit far fetched to me - I know they have a local connection but it would be irresponsible to use their company's money in that way and probably would upset various committees.

[Orion1871]

That Biscuit Analytic account on Twitter claiming that Dai didn't pay the last round of wages either and that we relied upon a loan from SCL. Seems a bit far fetched to me - I know they have a local connection but it would be irresponsible to use their company's money in that way and probably would upset various committees.

They're idiots if they loaned that crook any money.

[East Grinstead Royal]

Given that the problem has been having the cash to pay wages and tax, it always struck me as odd that the EFL's solution was to require Reading to stump up a load more cash. A bit like fining a penniless vagrant, it solves nothing and just adds to the problem.

[Snowflake Royal]

I find it strange that the football director side of the business was still going around signing players right up to *checks notes* Thursday, when we didnt have the money to do it.

Why are we signing new players when we dont have the money to pay the ones we do have and to meet the rules.

I also dont understand why so many people were clamouring for signings on deadline day when we are a club in dire financial distress, but that's a whole new level of stupid.

Why would the ELF go easy on a club for breaking its rules when the club still thinks it can go around signing new players. The administration of the club is a mess from top to bottom.

Is it that we don't have the money to do it, or is it that Dai is struggling to get the money out of China to do it? If it's the latter, then every reason as to why we should sign players still.

I genuinely believe it's a little bit of both. The club have already said that new investment is needed to help with cash flow issues, so I do believe there are issues around how much financial commitment Dai truly has to the club, along with getting money out of China.

He had a month to do this. That's not a difficulty moving money (lots of his assets are offshored in tax havens rather than in China anyway) across borders. That doesn't apply for wages either as they happen somewhat predictably once a month.

And most of the funds to cover our wages shouldn't be coming from offshore. The club has onshore revenue streams and our wage bill should have been culled to pretty close to that if not below it by now. Although we of course have other costs too.

[Snowflake Royal]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

Something that should be patently obvious but quite a few posters struggle with.

[Stranded]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

Something that should be patently obvious but quite a few posters struggle with.

And mainly why I posted it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

Something that should be patently obvious but quite a few posters struggle with.

And mainly why I posted it.

And I quoted it twice so they hopefully actually read it

[Lower West]

That's not a difficulty moving money (lots of his assets are offshored in tax havens rather than in China anyway) across borders.

Dai seems to have far bigger problems to deal with than RFC. Perhaps he'd prefer to keep it that way. Out of sight of the prying eyes of the state and the forensic accountants looking into the affairs of the (still suspended from the stock market) Chinese business.

Latest update issued on the 30th August.

https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listc ... 000537.pdf

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I find it strange that the football director side of the business was still going around signing players right up to *checks notes* Thursday, when we didnt have the money to do it.

Why are we signing new players when we dont have the money to pay the ones we do have and to meet the rules.

I also dont understand why so many people were clamouring for signings on deadline day when we are a club in dire financial distress, but that's a whole new level of stupid.

Why would the ELF go easy on a club for breaking its rules when the club still thinks it can go around signing new players. The administration of the club is a mess from top to bottom.

Is it that we don't have the money to do it, or is it that Dai is struggling to get the money out of China to do it? If it's the latter, then every reason as to why we should sign players still.

I genuinely believe it's a little bit of both. The club have already said that new investment is needed to help with cash flow issues, so I do believe there are issues around how much financial commitment Dai truly has to the club, along with getting money out of China.

He had a month to do this. That's not a difficulty moving money (lots of his assets are offshored in tax havens rather than in China anyway) across borders. That doesn't apply for wages either as they happen somewhat predictably once a month.

And most of the funds to cover our wages shouldn't be coming from offshore. The club has onshore revenue streams and our wage bill should have been culled to pretty close to that if not below it by now. Although we of course have other costs too.

Yeah I know, that's why I think it's a bit of both as mentioned.

[Zammo]

Given that the problem has been having the cash to pay wages and tax, it always struck me as odd that the EFL's solution was to require Reading to stump up a load more cash. A bit like fining a penniless vagrant, it solves nothing and just adds to the problem.

tbf, I thought the exact same thing. He can't hand over the cash to run the club so where was he gonna find additional funds to just sit in an EFL reserve account.

[Snowflake Royal]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

This isn't news. If the ELF banned people from running a business based on subjective things such as "they didnt think they would be good owner for the business" they'd be sued and lose every time. And what's more, Reading fans would be in up arms if the EFL vetoed a chinese billionaire from taking over based on their own gut feelings.

It's news to most football fans

[Snowflake Royal]

We didn’t pay in time in October. Not sure when pay roll run etc but think we were still around the play offs then. QPR game when we went top for 10 mins was 7th October

Not that anyone realistically thought we were going up

I may be imagining this but weren’t there previous late wage payments made blamed on bank holidays or something 2-3 years ago

Been such a shitshow difficult to recall

Think so.

[Snowflake Royal]

Given that the problem has been having the cash to pay wages and tax, it always struck me as odd that the EFL's solution was to require Reading to stump up a load more cash. A bit like fining a penniless vagrant, it solves nothing and just adds to the problem.

tbf, I thought the exact same thing. He can't hand over the cash to run the club so where was he gonna find additional funds to just sit in an EFL reserve account.

Except the excuse is delays moving money and cashflow, not that he doesn't have it.

And the 125% extra was just an option presented that if you do this we'll suspend the full points deduction.

[karbota]

That Biscuit Analytic account on Twitter claiming that Dai didn't pay the last round of wages either and that we relied upon a loan from SCL. Seems a bit far fetched to me - I know they have a local connection but it would be irresponsible to use their company's money in that way and probably would upset various committees.

They're idiots if they loaned that crook any money.

Foreign owners, foreign managers, foreign players, WTF did you expect? Sir John, please buy our club back.

[leon]

Interesting* article on The Guardian on EFL Ownership Tests and changes coming in

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-analysis

Interesting point made by the EFL Head of Legal - all these tests ever do is determine if the proposed owner is eligible and at the time of purchase can show that they have the financial means to run the club - not that they will be a good owner. Dai clearly had the funds at the time of buying us and was eligible so there was nothing the EFL could do to legally stop the purchase.

Passing the tests is not a "seal of approval" but just a notification that the new owner meets the minimum standards laid out in their regulations - at the time of the takeover.

This isn't news. If the ELF banned people from running a business based on subjective things such as "they didnt think they would be good owner for the business" they'd be sued and lose every time. And what's more, Reading fans would be in up arms if the EFL vetoed a chinese billionaire from taking over based on their own gut feelings.

It's news to most football fans

It’s been discussed on here a few times in the past.

[Snowflake Royal]

This isn't news. If the ELF banned people from running a business based on subjective things such as "they didnt think they would be good owner for the business" they'd be sued and lose every time. And what's more, Reading fans would be in up arms if the EFL vetoed a chinese billionaire from taking over based on their own gut feelings.

It's news to most football fans

It’s been discussed on here a few times in the past.

Yeah, thanks leon. There's 3 or 4 of us who take turns to point it out every time someone like RoyalBlue complains about the FL approving Dai.