Worried

[Terminal Boardom]

Hopefully that will get the point across.

Sorry, run that by me again please?

[bigshaka'away']

Im sorry to say i agree with many of what has said - to a point.

The chairman saved out club. That fact over rides everything else.

HOWEVER.

I dont care what the accounts say, even with the wages taken into account and the acadamy (which cost in the region of a million to run a year) we still should be heavily in the black... Perhaps the money was spent repaying SJM to any loans he has given us over the years - if this is the case then fair enough - but it HAS gone somewhere. I dont want us to overspend, to be in the red, but i also want an explantaion. Any accountant of nouse will tell you company reports only tell what the company wishes you to know - look at the major companies that have gone tits up by hiding massive debts (Maxwell, ENRON etc etc) and hiding money. Its very common, and not hard, especially at a football club. Indeed removing money from a football club is one of the easier places to do it - i wonder why the son of a convicted arms dealer purchased pompi, or Thaksin at Man City etc etc.

I am NOT accusing SJM or using RFC in this way, not at all. However the books do not balance - people also forget that when we were promoted new members had to pay 10 pounds to get a card. This was later reduced, and now stands at 2 pounds ( ithink it may be 3), but they must have brought a lot of money to the club. In a new stadium, maintance must not be high, and coupled with the money from London Irish any cost from upkeep must have shared, or at least had a contribution. Wages were high, and attendances were not big enough to substain - but work it out for yourself, with all the other factors we would not have lost money.

Im sorry but there are major questions to be answered, and i bet you it never will be and somebody somewhere is a richer man because of it.

[ZacNaloen]

I dont care what the accounts say, even with the wages taken into account and the acadamy (which cost in the region of a million to run a year) we still should be heavily in the black...

Seriously, what do you have more than gut feeling?

[bigshaka'away']

im not rich enough to be wrongly sued for libel - so nothing, niet, nowt. i take it all back. This didnt come from anybody in the know. Not a word. nothing.

[ZacNaloen]

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Dead wood (plus a couple of genuinely very good players) gone. Fine.

Great youngsters coming through. Great.

Bright manager who brought many of them through at the helm. Even better.

Final pieces of the jig saw ... 2 or 3 additional signings that BR really wants which may cost Mr Mad a few of the millions recent sales have brought in. Will they happen. Let's hope so because these could be exciting times.

Over to you JM.

[Terminal Boardom]

Are we bankrupt? NO
Are we in desperate need of a benefactor? NO
Are the creditors calling? NO
Have the last 20 years been the least successful in the club's history? NO
Have we had a revolving door fitted to the Manager's office? NO
Do we have a stadium that is an embarrassment? NO
Is the club limited in options commercially compared to Elm Park? NO

I am not suggesting that SJM is perfect or that the club is. We all have our own particular faults and foibles. But if one thing is going to really piss me off (even more than Royalee's rambles)is the number of people who criticise the management of the club without knowing what they are talking about. If you are so stressed out and bitter and angry about the way the club is run, put your money where your mouth is and buy the club form SJM. Just don't come crying to me when it goes tits up because you have spent money you dont have!

[Royal Rother]

Big Shaka - EVERYTHING added up perfectly, the accounts DO balance, the detail is shown in the financial reports filed at Companies House - NOTHING is missing, it's just that the costs are a little bit more than everyone imagines them to be, and the income not as great.

We have made a profit of circa £6m in each of the last 2 years' published accounts - £7m of that went on paying off a bank borrowing. NOTHING has EVER been paid to Mr Madejski up to June 2008 - not 1 penny. And the loans he has made to finance the club over the last 2 decades have always been free of any interest charges.

The accounts are audited and nothing can be hidden away. If you won't believe that, then my post is a total waste of 10 minutes of my life.

Things might have been different in 2008/2009 and perhaps a proportion of the proceeds of the sale of Kitson, Shorey and Sonko DID go to pay some of the interest free loans advanced by Madejski - we don't know yet. It has never happened before and pretty detailed sums have shown on other threads that it is extremely likely that, even with the parachute payment, the club will still have lost money, so it is more likely that whatever surplus exists on player sales has been used to strengthen the Balance Sheet in other areas and to counteract the club's Trading Loss before player trading.

We shall see at the end of September I suppose.

Maxwell and ENRON were massive frauds - accountants do not, by habit, hide stuff away from interested eyes. There are a whole variety of reasons why they do not do that, but believe me, it is a fantasy that all accountants shuffle the numbers to show what their client wants them to show. It does happen but nothing like as often as people like to speculate, and it would be very difficult to do it at a football club because the accounting rules are so strict, specific and regulated by a number of independent means.

Dammit, I got sucked in again.

[Mad Dog's Ghost]

Terminal,

I think JM has run the club well. It's why we're in a potentially great situation.

I just hope he's got the balls to back BR because it's small change compared to what he's put in over the years.

You seriously happy with Shane Long as our main striker?

[Terminal Boardom]

Terminal,

You seriously happy with Shane Long as our main striker?

I don't think that Shane Long is a professional footballer. And no. I don't think he should be leading the line. I look back to the strikers we have had over the years and I think he can rate as highly as Keith Scott, Robert Fleck and Colin Gordon. It is a shame that other options have not got a bit more experience at this level.

[bigshaka'away']

Big Shaka - EVERYTHING added up perfectly, the accounts DO balance, the detail is shown in the financial reports filed at Companies House - NOTHING is missing, it's just that the costs are a little bit more than everyone imagines them to be, and the income not as great.

We have made a profit of circa £6m in each of the last 2 years' published accounts - £7m of that went on paying off a bank borrowing. NOTHING has EVER been paid to Mr Madejski up to June 2008 - not 1 penny. And the loans he has made to finance the club over the last 2 decades have always been free of any interest charges.

The accounts are audited and nothing can be hidden away. If you won't believe that, then my post is a total waste of 10 minutes of my life.

Things might have been different in 2008/2009 and perhaps a proportion of the proceeds of the sale of Kitson, Shorey and Sonko DID go to pay some of the interest free loans advanced by Madejski - we don't know yet. It has never happened before and pretty detailed sums have shown on other threads that it is extremely likely that, even with the parachute payment, the club will still have lost money, so it is more likely that whatever surplus exists on player sales has been used to strengthen the Balance Sheet in other areas and to counteract the club's Trading Loss before player trading.

We shall see at the end of September I suppose.

Maxwell and ENRON were massive frauds - accountants do not, by habit, hide stuff away from interested eyes. There are a whole variety of reasons why they do not do that, but believe me, it is a fantasy that all accountants shuffle the numbers to show what their client wants them to show. It does happen but nothing like as often as people like to speculate, and it would be very difficult to do it at a football club because the accounting rules are so strict, specific and regulated by a number of independent means.

Dammit, I got sucked in again.

Thanks for your reply - i hope you are right and that certain things are not hidden from prying eyes. The rules regarding football finace were only put inplace recently - or certainly only tightened recently. I admire your belief.

[Terminal Boardom]

Big Shaka - EVERYTHING added up perfectly, the accounts DO balance, the detail is shown in the financial reports filed at Companies House - NOTHING is missing, it's just that the costs are a little bit more than everyone imagines them to be, and the income not as great.

We have made a profit of circa £6m in each of the last 2 years' published accounts - £7m of that went on paying off a bank borrowing. NOTHING has EVER been paid to Mr Madejski up to June 2008 - not 1 penny. And the loans he has made to finance the club over the last 2 decades have always been free of any interest charges.

The accounts are audited and nothing can be hidden away. If you won't believe that, then my post is a total waste of 10 minutes of my life.

Things might have been different in 2008/2009 and perhaps a proportion of the proceeds of the sale of Kitson, Shorey and Sonko DID go to pay some of the interest free loans advanced by Madejski - we don't know yet. It has never happened before and pretty detailed sums have shown on other threads that it is extremely likely that, even with the parachute payment, the club will still have lost money, so it is more likely that whatever surplus exists on player sales has been used to strengthen the Balance Sheet in other areas and to counteract the club's Trading Loss before player trading.

We shall see at the end of September I suppose.

Maxwell and ENRON were massive frauds - accountants do not, by habit, hide stuff away from interested eyes. There are a whole variety of reasons why they do not do that, but believe me, it is a fantasy that all accountants shuffle the numbers to show what their client wants them to show. It does happen but nothing like as often as people like to speculate, and it would be very difficult to do it at a football club because the accounting rules are so strict, specific and regulated by a number of independent means.

Dammit, I got sucked in again.

Great post RR. You almost make accounting sound interesting

[Maguire]

Whilst RR might have some laughable opinions on football, I'm always interested in his take on the financial side, as I have zero knowledge myself.

[Ian Royal]

I deal with investigating complaints on a daily basis and as part of my job I have to weigh up the balance of evidence and make a decision on whether I support one party or another.

There is a lot of evidence in the club well run, accounts are fine side.
There is NO evidence on the accounts are dodgy SJM is screwing us, where has the money gone side. Just people who think they know what they are talking about without any actual knowledge of the figures or details.

Those people are 'tards who have had the evidence presented to them on numerous occasions but have refused to acknowledge it as it countermands their blinkered and biased point of view.

That is their problem. They are wrong and they are 'tards. You simply cannot help some people

As someone clever once said: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can teach/show people, but you cannot make them understand.

[Yorkshire Royal]

Here's a total oh my god type moment.

Royal Rother... we don't get on.... in fact he probably has me blocked....but... fair play. Total, common sense. If you are reading this.. well done sir!

[Ian Royal]

Here's a total oh my god type moment.

Royal Rother... we don't get on.... in fact he probably has me blocked....but... fair play. Total, common sense. If you are reading this.. well done sir!

The Yorkie bars are on meeeeeeeeeeee!




[size=85](right, off to be I go)[/size]

[Royal Rother]

Here's a total oh my god type moment.

Royal Rother... we don't get on.... in fact he probably has me blocked....but... fair play. Total, common sense. If you are reading this.. well done sir!

I don't have you blocked chap. Thanks for your, and others, kind comments.

[Schards#2]

If the loans to Madejski are still outstanding, isn't the club technically insolvent?

[Platypuss]

Not sure about the "nothing", RR - while pocket change, don't we pay rent for Hogwood?

[Franchise FC]

If the loans to Madejski are still outstanding, isn't the club technically insolvent?

Not unless they are either dated for repayment and the repayment date has been reached (as with Liverpool this summer), or they are repayable on demand and SJM has demanded repayment. Even then, the Club may be able to refinance - although the banks seem just a little less likely to cough up loans at the moment.