Failure to buy a striker

[Victor Meldrew]

Robbie Keane anyone?

I think we have used up our quota of Irish players allowed.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I think you miss the point MM, these players are now at Champ level, and would indeed break the bank, I think the point is that we have not made a move for these type of players while still at a lower level, before their price gets silly.

Would they really break the bank? You're telling me we couldn't secure a decent finisher unless we spent shedloads? I'd have thought £1-£1.5m would be adequate enough to get a striker in better than what we have now. Perhaps your definition of bank breaking is different to mine.

We paid £1m for Lita years ago FFS!! How is it that years & years later after enjoying parachute payments & a prem windfall (I accept costs were higher but to suggest RFC made no money from our Prem exploits & numerous inflated transfer fees for Kits, Shorey, Sonko et al) we won't spend that sort of cash on a player now?

You wouldn't see much change from £3m for any of Fryatt, Maynard, Holt, Morrison, they have a massive value to their clubs now, the trick is to take the chance when they are at an earlier level..
Ricky Lambert might be a good move in Jan, could be a move up a league would tempt him, cant be worth more than £1.5m

[Hoop Blah]

Morison continues to impress me, and as BR said he looked the part on Saturday. It's such a shame our rumoured late late bid for him in August didn't work out.

If we could go back for him in January then it would be just the kind of addition the squad needs. They've just got the lad from Bournemouth, who came on upfront on Saturday, so if you're looking for good signs you might just hope that he's his replacement they're bedding in now before cashing in when the window opens in January.

[Wimb]

RB, FR and 2WW1WC in slagging off Madejski non-shocker

As Ian says there's no real point rehashing the 'where's the money gone' argument but a general and massive to anyone accusing the club of going 'backwards' when in the grand scheme of things we're on course to finish in the top 30 of the country yet again.

In 2005-2008 We had a chance to kick on and become an established Premier League club but we didn't take it, mistakes were made throughout the club hands have been held up and we just need to move on and HOPE lessons have really been learned if we make it again.

Today just because we're lacking in 1 area of the pitch hardly makes us a badly run club. Name a period in our entire f'ing history where we haven't been moaning about us not buying a keeper/defender/midfielder/striker and I dare you to find a club now that doesn't say the same, even Chelsea fans are moaning about not having depth right now.

Every club has a weakness and considering Brian has had about 2 days of a transfer window to actually buy this striker we're on about, I think the club deserves some slack. We've got 3 Internationals as our strikers at the moment and considering that 2 of them are under 23 and the other is coming off a career threatening knee injury it's not unreasonable to suggest they might find form very soon, Hunt has 3 in 4 games and if he keeps up at that rate what more do you expect? All three have also shown they are capable at this level in the past. Does it mean I wouldn't like a Holt/Morrisson etc? No but it does mean that you can understand the stick and build approach for the first half of 2010/2011. I have little doubt that Brian, Hammond and Madejski would fund the purchase of a striker IF the right one became available but that's a point nobody can prove/disprove until the end of next Summers window.

Would Bednar, Ramsey etc have been nice on loan? well yes they would have but I can understand the logic the manager and the club have of only signing loan players who they believe will stay and flourish here long term. Plus if Bednar flops in his 3 months here at the cost of say 300k in wages and we lose Kebe to a long term injury, that limits the ability of the club to bring in an 'emergency loan' for an actual emergency.

Does the above classify as 'exciting'? No not really but can you understand it, in my opinion yes.

For every million spent on a 'good player' like Lita or the 250k for Kitson, 50k for Doyle, there's the 700k spent on Sean Evers & Scott Murray, the 250k forked out on Keith Scott, the 100k for the 'highest scorer in Newcastle youth/reserve history' Paul Brayson, the veteran presence of Les Ferdinand or Shaun Goater and the injury plagued signings of Noel Hunt, Nicky Forster and Martin Butler. In other words whether we spend big, go thrifty, look for an older head, young upcoming youngster there is no guarantee it's going to kick us on.

Do we need a striker yes, is it frustrating to see us 1 piece away yes, but why not credit the club with the squad we're building and back the board and manager for a 2/3 year period and see where it takes us. It certainly worked for SSC, Pardew and McGhee.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yet again, a reminder for all those only talking about transfer fess that the salary, on a minimum of a 3 year contract, is a far more significant long-term expense than a one-off transfer fee.

[brendywendy]

yet another week goes by without a goal from our strikers.

when will the club wise up and get a grip of this shambles

[Hoop Blah]

Yet again, a reminder for all those only talking about transfer fess that the salary, on a minimum of a 3 year contract, is a far more significant long-term expense than a one-off transfer fee.

That really depends on how much you pay them and how big the transfer fee is doesn't it?

Anyway, I don't think anyone who's sensibly suggesting we get a decent Championship level centre forward in to compliment our current options is disregarding the long term costs of the signing. Personally I'm expecting that a well run club can afford to add a vital missing element on average wages for the level they're competing at.

[brendywendy]

if we got in around 7.5 million this year in transfer fees.
and we have a 4 million financial shortfall this season, so we are already down to 3.5 million
if we buy liegertwood in jan thats another half a mill.
down to 3 million
which is a half decent champiobnship striker plus wages.
but then therell be another shortfall next year we'll need to plug.........
if we didnt buy a striker, or got a very cheap one we could plug next years gap, and not "have to" sell kebe

[Svlad Cjelli]

Yet again, a reminder for all those only talking about transfer fess that the salary, on a minimum of a 3 year contract, is a far more significant long-term expense than a one-off transfer fee.

That really depends on how much you pay them and how big the transfer fee is doesn't it?

Anyway, I don't think anyone who's sensibly suggesting we get a decent Championship level centre forward in to compliment our current options is disregarding the long term costs of the signing. Personally I'm expecting that a well run club can afford to add a vital missing element on average wages for the level they're competing at.

Yes, but you pay them "the going rate" for a Championship player, unless they're exceptional and want more, in which case we probably can't afford them. If they're young and up-and-coming you can pay them less until they're established, but all of the players spoken about on this thread are established players who'd demand the going rate at least.

Every player - and their agents - do know what the benchmark for each league is so you have to pay that or you can't get them. But the point is that so many people in this thread just talk about the transfer fee as if that's all you pay - nothing else, not a 3-year financial commitment.

Interesting, though, that you use the phrase "well run club" as if it's something to be ashamed of. Why is it something that you feel deserves scorn?

[Snowball]

Surely, if we are looking for a striker to get us PROMOTED
we are not looking for "an average player on average wages"

If we are looking for a SPECIAL player, and if the player is already, obviously "special" at
this level he's going to cost a whack in terms of a transfer fee, agent's fees, AND he will
expect a good contract and a hike in his weekly wage

So Church played 22 (14) in the league last season for ten league goals

Had he played 44 (02) this season we ought to have expected 15 goals. Reasonable?

So we are looking, surely, if a player is going to come in and be CLEARLY BETTER, for a 20-goal man.

How much do they cost?

After Millwall's win people were banging the drum about Robinson, answer to prayers etc. Why is it then that Millwall have played a game more and scored 4 goals less than RFC?

[Wycombe Royal]

Surely, if we are looking for a striker to get us PROMOTED
we are not looking for "an average player on average wages"?

I was thinking the exact same thing. There is no point bringing in another striker unless they are better than what we already have and they will cost a significant amount of money.

Or alternatively we take a risk on someone playing at a lower level who MIGHT be better than what we already have. However that would just be met with cries of he's not good enough, he has no experience at this level, no ambition, etc, etc.

[Snowball]

Surely, if we are looking for a striker to get us PROMOTED
we are not looking for "an average player on average wages"?

I was thinking the exact same thing. There is no point bringing in another striker unless they are better than what we already have and they will cost a significant amount of money.

Or alternatively we take a risk on someone playing at a lower level who MIGHT be better than what we already have. However that would just be met with cries of he's not good enough, he has no experience at this level, no ambition, etc, etc.

Yes, and I think, privately, The RFC owners and management just want "a decent season" this year
probably flirting with 6th place (an achievement, really) or coming with a late run at sixth.

If we happen to punch above our weight, woop-dee-dooh but this is a team in transition, and really, doing quite
well, all things considered. I'm sure McDermott sees both Long and Church as still improving (therefore better
next season) and maybe Bignall to come through. The big unknown is Noel Hunt. If he really is over his long-term
injury then he's the equivalent of a big signing and he's still got 4 years in him. I don't think he's totally back yet
but I think he has to find a regular, reliable striking partner (playing 4-4-2) (unless he could adapt to the position
playing in the hole 451)


Am I the only one to think that it's not really about individuals up front, but more we don't seem to be
playing any kind of regular pattern that the front players can get used to? When was the last time we saw an
interchange of play like Doyle-Hunt? We seem to just randomly bung the ball up there, or cross it "in hope"

I feel (for example) that if we went 442 and we knew exactly how we intended to play,
that the benefits would outweigh the midfield weaknesses

[Hoop Blah]

Interesting, though, that you use the phrase "well run club" as if it's something to be ashamed of. Why is it something that you feel deserves scorn?

It's not scorn, it's perhaps a bit of sarcasim because it's a term thrown around so much. I've said many times on here that we're trying to operate outside of the norm for the industry we're in. By 'well run' we mean we're trying to break even but unfortunately we're in an industry where breaking even isn't really a realistic strategy for competitiveness and pushing for the top of the league.

To an extent I'm happy with that because I know what they're trying to do. Unfortunately the club don't seem to accept that and seem to be setting unrealistic expectations whilst they continue the moral crusade for a controlled balance sheet.

I really don't think people are disregarding the wages either, it's just they're taken as read that if we sign someone we have to pay them to going rate. I don't hear you talking about their national insurance contributions or the increased variable costs of employing them but I'm sure you're factoring them in when saying we should or shouldn't get someone in.

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

if we got in around 7.5 million this year in transfer fees.
and we have a 4 million financial shortfall this season, so we are already down to 3.5 million
if we buy liegertwood in jan thats another half a mill.
down to 3 million
which is a half decent champiobnship striker plus wages.
but then therell be another shortfall next year we'll need to plug.........
if we didnt buy a striker, or got a very cheap one we could plug next years gap, and not "have to" sell kebe

Not quite brendy, but I know where you're coming from. It was £4.5m *before* the season's trading started, so next year's hole will be a lot smaller.

All guesswork I posted elsewhwere before we signed Liegertwood.

OUT

Marek: Fee £650K Wage £416K (£8K per week)
Cisse: Fee £550K Wage £416K (£8K per week)
Henry: Fee £250 Wage £152K (£3K per week)
Sig: Fee £6.5m Wage £416K (£8k per week)
Various Loans: Wage £250K in total (pure guess)

TOTAL: £9.6m

IN

Zurab Fee £100K Wage £312K (6K per week assuming BR pay rest)
Harte Fee £50K Wage £182K (£3.5K per week)

TOTAL: £550K

ALLOW
Agents fees, sundry items £500K (pure guesswork)
Payment to Siggy's old club: £650K

NET
circa £7.8m

Black hole well and truly filled with plenty leftover. Mind you, loads of assumptions here (we don't get all money right away etc, but then neither do we pay all right away either), but over the course of a year it may be close-ish. What do you think?

[Snowball]

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

They could have got him for 100-150K and probably lower-end CCC wages THEN



His price, unfortunately, will now have shot up, and he'd want a significant bump in wages

He's 27 now, at his peak, and I doubt we'd get him for less than 15 times what Millwall paid (£130,000)
and his agent would know he can ask for a big, big CCC wage

[Wycombe Royal]

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

They could have got him for 100-150K and probably lower-end CCC wages THEN

After just having a 23 goal season in league one? No chance.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

They could have got him for 100-150K and probably lower-end CCC wages THEN



His price, unfortunately, will now have shot up, and he'd want a significant bump in wages

He's 27 now, at his peak, and I doubt we'd get him for less than 15 times what Millwall paid (£130,000)
and his agent would know he can ask for a big, big CCC wage

Perhaps the sponsors said "no" on the basis of not wanting to see a competitor's name on the back of the shirt.

[Hoop Blah]

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

They could have got him for 100-150K and probably lower-end CCC wages THEN

After just having a 23 goal season in league one? No chance.

Definately no chance! He'd played a month of Championship football and started the season very well too so, it being the end of the window was probably in a very good negotiating position.

Since then he's played well from what I've seen, and scored a decent number of goals but also had a bit of a barron spell at the same time (not surprising). I don't think the last 3 months will have bumped his price up too much, but who knows! As for big big CCC wages, they're reserved for those who've proved it for longer than Morison and have most likely taken a recent step down from the Premiership too.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Don't forget that Gylfi was sold on the Sunday before the transfer window closed at 6 pm on the Tuesday, and that was a very unexpected deal that went through quickly.

Lining up and signing a quality striker in that limited time may not have been possible.

[Snowball]

The club reportedly made a move for Morison in August so I'm assuming that they did so knowing they could afford him.

They could have got him for 100-150K and probably lower-end CCC wages THEN

After just having a 23 goal season in league one? No chance.

I should have been clearer. I meant when Millwall signed him (for 130K)