What have West Ham Done That we havent???

[under the tin]

I don't "hate" West Ham. In fact I'd go as far as stating that I have a modicum of sympathy for their fans.
Whenever a club screws up, whether financially, or by infringing rules, it's invariably the loyal fans who suffer the most.
It is the mis-management of the club that that causes the problems, not the people on the terraces.

And in terms of mis-management, West Ham must be right up there amongst the worst run clubs in the country.
The much vaunted "academy of football" does, in fairness, have creedence.
I remeber an England match staged at that hole next to the river Itchen. (Rooney's debut?)
Of the eleven players on the pitch, something like eight had West Ham connections.
Now you'd think that a club that can produce so many top class players would build upon these riches.
"Hello, is that Mr. Baresi's agent? We've got a young lad here whom we'd like you to play alongside"
But over the years, this family silver has all been sold on to rival clubs, and the only "building" was a stupid neo gothic grandstand.
There was much hand wringing here following the sale of Gylfi. Imagine watching our club sell on a Ferdinand, then a Lampard, Cole, Carrick, Defoe,etc.
The dilution of quality had its inevitable effect, and West Ham have had a few spells in the second tier.
All this transfer income has evaporated, the club introduced a bond scheme to get the fans to pay more, yet the club is many many millions in debt.
What an utter shambles.
I am given to understand that Peter Storrie has to put a brown paper bag over his head if he gets less than 40 miles away from E13.
(Yes, the same Storrie who was involved at Fratton Park).

[maffff]

I wouldn't be at all suprised to see West Ham be quite active in the January transfer window.

Can't argue with that.

[Flyingkiwi]

Nicolas Anelka.

From Shanghai Shenhua???

That WOULD be a laugh!

[leicsRoyal]

Nicolas Anelka.

From Shanghai Shenhua???

That WOULD be a laugh!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ds-newsxml

[Flyingkiwi]

Nicolas Anelka.

From Shanghai Shenhua???

That WOULD be a laugh!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ds-newsxml

Ha Ha!

Drogba will only be weeks behind him!

The shit is REALLY about to hit the fan here.

[maffff]

Here's Saints equivalent thread, if anyone is interested;

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.p ... difference

[larry1971]

I read this morning that West Ham are lining up a move for Joe Cole and Nicolas Anelka.

That's some wage budget.

Joe Cole's an old one that has been dooing the rounds since the summer Liverpool want rid of him and I suspect any transfer fee won't be to great the only stumbling block could be his wages as he'd have to take a big cut. as for Anelka, well that's just the kind of nonsense paper talk that you expect everytime the transfer window is about to opens.

[larry1971]

I don't "hate" West Ham. In fact I'd go as far as stating that I have a modicum of sympathy for their fans.
Whenever a club screws up, whether financially, or by infringing rules, it's invariably the loyal fans who suffer the most.
It is the mis-management of the club that that causes the problems, not the people on the terraces.

And in terms of mis-management, West Ham must be right up there amongst the worst run clubs in the country.
The much vaunted "academy of football" does, in fairness, have creedence.
I remeber an England match staged at that hole next to the river Itchen. (Rooney's debut?)
Of the eleven players on the pitch, something like eight had West Ham connections.

I think it might of been the 2006 world cup but in that squad at least 5 players had come through the West Ham yoiuth system we certainly have a very good record of producing young players and you some times have to wonder just how worse we would be at international level if it wasn't for a handfull of clubs like West Ham regularly producing future players because with the exception of Manchester United the so called other big clubs have produced very little future England players over the last 10 years or so.

Now you'd think that a club that can produce so many top class players would build upon these riches.
"Hello, is that Mr. Baresi's agent? We've got a young lad here whom we'd like you to play alongside"
But over the years, this family silver has all been sold on to rival clubs, and the only "building" was a stupid neo gothic grandstand.
There was much hand wringing here following the sale of Gylfi. Imagine watching our club sell on a Ferdinand, then a Lampard, Cole, Carrick, Defoe,etc.

oh I have often wondered just how good we could of become if we had held onto those players and had an owner prepared to put in a bit of money and build a squad around them - sadly West Ham right from day one have always had chairman/ownrers lacking in any kind of ambition more than happy with mid table mediocracy and the odd relegation . It hasn't helped that the Cerne's family have pretty much had some one on the board right since the clubs formation in 1895 this lack of ambition is the reason why we have always sold off our talanted kids and it's bloody frustrating because as a club we have always had the potenttial to be better than what we have been.

All this transfer income has evaporated, the club introduced a bond scheme to get the fans to pay more, yet the club is many many millions in debt.
What an utter shambles.

the bond scheme saga happened back in the early 1990's and has no baring on our current financial situation that was all down to our previouse Iclandic owners who wrecklessly spent huge amounts of money on transfers and wages buying players well past their sell by date then when the Iclandic banks and economey crashed the inevitable happened the Icelandic banks took controll of the club. We were very lucky not to go down with Iceland because the reality is that when Gold ad Sullivan took over the club was weeks if not days away from going into administration and I think it's no exageration to say that had they not bought the club when they did West Ham probably would of gone bust.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

...... the bond scheme saga happened back in the early 1990's and has no baring on our current financial situation that was all down to our previouse Iclandic owners who wrecklessly spent huge amounts of money on transfers and wages buying players well past their sell by date then when the Iclandic banks and economey crashed the inevitable happened the Icelandic banks took controll of the club. We were very lucky not to go down with Iceland because the reality is that when Gold ad Sullivan took over the club was weeks if not days away from going into administration and I think it's no exageration to say that had they not bought the club when they did West Ham probably would of gone bust.

But the current financial model isn't sustainable. It's only money being lent (not given) by Gold & Sullivan that keeps West Ham trading. How long are they prepared to keep throwing money in for no return?

Of course, there's a school of thought that says G&S are only in this for the Olympic Stadium, which will let them sell the land the Bole stands on and pocket the proceeds. As if nice, ethical men like that would ever be quite so underhand.....

[larry1971]

...... the bond scheme saga happened back in the early 1990's and has no baring on our current financial situation that was all down to our previouse Iclandic owners who wrecklessly spent huge amounts of money on transfers and wages buying players well past their sell by date then when the Iclandic banks and economey crashed the inevitable happened the Icelandic banks took controll of the club. We were very lucky not to go down with Iceland because the reality is that when Gold ad Sullivan took over the club was weeks if not days away from going into administration and I think it's no exageration to say that had they not bought the club when they did West Ham probably would of gone bust.

But the current financial model isn't sustainable. It's only money being lent (not given) by Gold & Sullivan that keeps West Ham trading. How long are they prepared to keep throwing money in for no return?

agreed that's why we can't afford another relegation - but I think both Gold and Sullivan have said that they know tthey won't ever get their money back and the fact that they are both born and bread West Ham fans will in the long run see them wrighting off the money they have put into the club.

Of course, there's a school of thought that says G&S are only in this for the Olympic Stadium, which will let them sell the land the Bole stands on and pocket the proceeds. As if nice, ethical men like that would ever be quite so underhand.....

well nothing would surprise me I guess some people may argue that having already put tens of millions of pounds into the club they would be entitled to pocket the proceeds from any sale of Upton Park, but from what I understand of it the money will all go to paying off some of our debt. But it does seem that the two Dave's are pinning all their hopes that a move to the Olympic Stadium will ease a lot of the clubs debt as playing there may very well make us a more attractive prospect to any future Russian/Arab billionair wanting to buy a premiership club .

[Ian Royal]

Did this guy used to be Mr West Ham I come in pea? Cos if it is, I reckon pea might have something to say about it.

Genuine LOL

[IronComesInPeace]

First post, don't worry I'm not here to cause trouble, just to point out a few inaccuracies.

Played Southampton, Wigan, Villa, Fulham, Norwich, Sunderland, QPR by far the easiest start out of any of the promoted teams. That and a fair amount of random luck. The difficulties of the fixtures will be changed in the next 8 games. Reading play the teams mentioned West Ham have a real difficult 8 games. City at home possibly not being the hardest game they face in the next 8. How the fark can you say they were the best team in the Champ?

We've also played 3 out of last year’s top 5 and got 4 points out of 9 by doing so. But yes, our fixture list has been a bit kind. This kind of discussion is a bit pointless after 11 games. After 19 would be a better judge to be honest. I wouldn't say we was the best team in the Champ, that was you, you won it after all. I think the argument was that we had the best squad, which underperformed. But given that we shipped out half our team, brought in half a new one, brought in a new manager with a new style and we're adjusting to a new league while our confidence was shattered from the previous season, it's not a real surprise that we struggled, was it? I must have been the only hammer that didn't expect us to walk the league. In fact I thought we'd struggle to make the Play Off's.

Not according to their owners they won't. I believe the quote was ''We're 80 million in debt and are unlikely to ever be able to pay it back''.

Well you've just made that up. When they took over it stood at £120 million, they have since reduced it to £80 million and are continuing to pay it back. They have never once stated that they won't be able to pay it back. In fact, the only thing they do ever tell us about the debt is how good they have been at cutting costs so they can continue to pay it off and are taking the "saviour" card rather graciously - the gentlemen that they are....

@reading4eva, pot kettle there feller. The bobble heads may be sad to you but they are mechandise for the kids.

You call yourself a West Ham fan?! The bobble heads are oxf*rd ridiculous and oh-so cringe worthy. What kid do you know that would want that on their bedside cabinet peering over them as they go to sleep?

Maybe they were claiming to be only £80M in debt, but they just spent £20M plus the insanity-wages Carroll is on.. so I'm going to assume, the figure is probably nearer mine than yours.

They are paying for that out of their own pocket. I'm not stupid enough to think that they'll just give us that money but it will be written off when the sell the club on for a profit and not before. The debt stands around £80mil and after this season (when the Sky money increases significantly) that debt will start to reduce at a faster rate. Why do you think they spent big this summer, even though we have to watch the purse strings? The financial gap between the Championship and the Premier League is going to get even bigger from next season, and with the potential move to the OS and the financial windfall that will also come from that (if we get it), we simply cannot afford to be relegated this season. (Speculate to accumulate and all that jazz)

.....All this transfer income has evaporated, the club introduced a bond scheme to get the fans to pay more, yet the club is many many millions in debt.

If you had done your research correctly (or just used some common sense and thought about the ages of these players) you'd had realised that we sold Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole, Carrick, Defoe, etc. after the bond scheme, so to suggest we set up a bond scheme to get fans to pay more because this "transfer income" had evaporated is ridiculous. The reason we are in debt, as someone has already pointed out, is due to the previous Icelandic owners and the financial collapse of their county.

I read this morning that West Ham are lining up a move for Joe Cole and Nicolas Anelka. That's some wage budget.

Our wage budget is significantly lower than the last time we were in the Prem. I'm not saying it's a low wage budget, but as far as PL clubs go West Ham are far from the worst culprits. Last year you could get away with that kind of remark. Not this season though. Oh and if you think we'll sign Cole or Anelka you are very much mistaken. It's clearly lazy journalism.

But the current financial model isn't sustainable. It's only money being lent (not given) by Gold & Sullivan that keeps West Ham trading. How long are they prepared to keep throwing money in for no return?

&

They are lending West Ham money so that when the next administration happens they have a high enough % to designate the prefered bidder, and stick two fingers up at HM Revenue.

No they're not. They're lending West Ham money so they can stay in the PL, so they can get the OS, so they can then sell the club on for maximum profit. You can think what you like about that, but I couldn't give a shit if they do that because we'll be in the PL, with a 60k seater stadium and with no debt. I have my doubt about the stadium itself but that's for another discussion, but seen as we was days away from administration a few years back the above sounds like a much better option to me.

As far as this discussion goes some people have pointed it out already....personally I think our team is better (but then I would I'm a West Ham fan so of course I'd be biased ) but honestly, I think the main difference is the difference in PL experience between the two sides. Not just throughout our first team and squad, but the manager too. I'm not saying we're a better team because of the PL experience, just which was always going to help during the early fixtures. While some of your players are adjusting, more of our players have played at this level and know what's required to grind out a result. I honestly think it's that simple.

But that said it won't be long before you lot string a few performances together. You're players will soon adjust, then you start pick up a few points which will breed confidence and you'll start to climb the table.
I don't know where all this animosity has come from between our two clubs. I'm only 24 so maybe I have missed something that sparked a rivalry somewhere down the line, but to be honest (and I don't mean this horribly) but I only really give a shit about what Millwall, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and Fulham are doing. So when I say, good luck for the rest of the season, rest assured, I genuinely mean it.

[sandman]

Not according to their owners they won't. I believe the quote was ''We're 80 million in debt and are unlikely to ever be able to pay it back''.

Well you've just made that up. When they took over it stood at £120 million, they have since reduced it to £80 million and are continuing to pay it back. They have never once stated that they won't be able to pay it back. In fact, the only thing they do ever tell us about the debt is how good they have been at cutting costs so they can continue to pay it off and are taking the "saviour" card rather graciously - the gentlemen that they are....

I'll admit it might not be the exact quote but I didn't make it up. Sullivan was on football focus when he and Gold first took over and quite clearly said that there was a debt to the banks that was very unlikely to be paid off.

[IronComesInPeace]

Might not be the exact quote but I didn't make it up. Sullivan was on football focus when he and Gold first took over and quite clearly said that there was a debt to the banks that was very unlikely to be paid off.

So you've used a quote from 2 years ago. Since that time they've been paying the debt off at a rather rapid rate (£40 million paid off since Janurary 2010).

I was just pointing out that the quote was inaccurate.

It was probably Sullivan spouting shit to be honest.

If you knew anything about G&S you'd know they love themselves, love the limelight and want to be the hero's of West Ham. Also painting such a dark picture allows them to go after the OS, regardless of what the fans think.

[oldschoolhammer]

Hi guys. another Irons fan invading your board. Long term West Ham season ticket holder of 33 years.

Im sorry to say that ironcomesinpeace IS NOT A GENUINE irons fan. He is a troll posing as a West Ham fan. He has posted his comments regarding our club, owners and debts on several West Ham forums and other teams forums. He claims to be ITK but he is far from it.

He has been pulled up before over this. He is ethier a Millwall or Spurs fans. Few of us were wondering once we saw this thread how long it would take him to post the exact same rubbish here that he has posted so many times before on other boards. Took him longer than usual.


Btw Mr Ironcomesinpeace no real genuine West Ham would join another board and then have a needless dig at another fellow iron fan as you have done above. This is something else he tends to do.

Best to ignore him.

[Mr Angry]

Welcome to the board oldschoolhammer.

A really good start by your lot that we would have loved to have had, but if you read yesterday's Metro, there was some guy writing a massive column comparing Big Sam's team to John Lyall's mid 80's team; a bit premature I thought after 11 games!!!

Incidentally, we are rather more reliant on our usual 6 points from you this season than normal; those are the points that will take us above Derby's infamous total of 11 for the season!

[grey_squirrel]

Welcome to the board oldschoolhammer.

A really good start by your lot that we would have loved to have had, but if you read yesterday's Metro, there was some guy writing a massive column comparing Big Sam's team to John Lyall's mid 80's team; a bit premature I thought after 11 games!!!

Incidentally, we are rather more reliant on our usual 6 points from you this season than normal; those are the points that will take us above Derby's infamous total of 11 for the season!

11?! Oh shlt I've been telling everyone it was 9. Not so confident now!

[oldschoolhammer]

Welcome to the board oldschoolhammer.

A really good start by your lot that we would have loved to have had, but if you read yesterday's Metro, there was some guy writing a massive column comparing Big Sam's team to John Lyall's mid 80's team; a bit premature I thought after 11 games!!!

Incidentally, we are rather more reliant on our usual 6 points from you this season than normal; those are the points that will take us above Derby's infamous total of 11 for the season!

Thanks for the welcome. Read the article you mentioned. It will be premature after 38 games, let alone 11.


We are all over the moon with our start and we all know it wont last. Anything above the bottom 3 is still the aim but this start has now given us the confidence to hopefully have a comfortable midtable finish. Some very hard games coming up over the next several weeks.


No doubt you will beat us again this season, but i fancy we may snatch a draw at home v you guys this time around.

Everyone always says the magic safety number is 40 points. I believe it will be much lower this season. There will be several teams in the mix for the whole season so even though you have yet to win a game any kind of run will stand you in good steed. You have drawn 6 from 10 so far. Those draws turn to defeats then you have no chance, turn them into wins and have a great chance.


All the best.

[IronComesInPeace]

Hi guys. another Irons fan invading your board. Long term West Ham season ticket holder of 33 years.

Im sorry to say that ironcomesinpeace IS NOT A GENUINE irons fan. He is a troll posing as a West Ham fan. He has posted his comments regarding our club, owners and debts on several West Ham forums and other teams forums. He claims to be ITK but he is far from it.

He has been pulled up before over this. He is ethier a Millwall or Spurs fans. Few of us were wondering once we saw this thread how long it would take him to post the exact same rubbish here that he has posted so many times before on other boards. Took him longer than usual.


Btw Mr Ironcomesinpeace no real genuine West Ham would join another board and then have a needless dig at another fellow iron fan as you have done above. This is something else he tends to do.

Best to ignore him.

?? Ok whom ever you're referring to isn't me. I'm not an itk, I never said I was. I'm very fairly infrequent poster on kumb but that's about it. Nothing which I said was inaccurate or intending to cause any offence. I didn't insult a West Ham fan, it was a tongue in cheek comment about the bobbleheads, which many west ham fans I know think it's a bit cringy but if it raises money for the club then who cares. I joined the board like many other West Ham fans to try and set the record straight.

If you had found anything which I said in my post which was inaccurate then you would have pointed it out. I'm not going to waste my time trying to defend myself because there is no way of proving who I actually am, which is a shame because I was genuinely trying to add to the discussion.

[Wizard]

Fukk off west ham fans and let us have our board back.

And fukk off ManchesterRoyals too, as you started this fukking thread.