Rival Watch

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Lower West
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Re: Rival Watch

by Lower West » 01 Jun 2022 14:32

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It's possible that for any players under 24 that their Dad can barely remember Forest being a decent top flight club.


Man City bounced around the leagues for decades. All that history air brushed aside now.


Well yes but comparing Man City, who whilst transformed have just completed their 20th consecutive season in the top flight and only spent 9 years outside the top flight in 56 years to Forest who will start their first season in the top flight in 24 years come August is a little apples with pears.


Of the past 20 some 14 have been funded with oil money though and of course a move to a ready made stadium in 2003. Easier to remain at the top when your shirt sponsor alone pays some £67 million a year as well.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 01 Jun 2022 14:59

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Man City bounced around the leagues for decades. All that history air brushed aside now.


Well yes but comparing Man City, who whilst transformed have just completed their 20th consecutive season in the top flight and only spent 9 years outside the top flight in 56 years to Forest who will start their first season in the top flight in 24 years come August is a little apples with pears.


Of the past 20 some 14 have been funded with oil money though and of course a move to a ready made stadium in 2003. Easier to remain at the top when your shirt sponsor alone pays some £67 million a year as well.


Well yes - which makes the comparison to Forest, today, completely and utterly pointless.

If Forest stay up and get taken over by gazillionaires then the comparison becomes valid. But as said though, City have barely been out of the top flight in the last 60 years - 9 years in total including one 5 year spell where they dropped to League 1 and came back again.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Lower West » 01 Jun 2022 15:10

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Well yes but comparing Man City, who whilst transformed have just completed their 20th consecutive season in the top flight and only spent 9 years outside the top flight in 56 years to Forest who will start their first season in the top flight in 24 years come August is a little apples with pears.


Of the past 20 some 14 have been funded with oil money though and of course a move to a ready made stadium in 2003. Easier to remain at the top when your shirt sponsor alone pays some £67 million a year as well.


Well yes - which makes the comparison to Forest, today, completely and utterly pointless.

If Forest stay up and get taken over by gazillionaires then the comparison becomes valid. But as said though, City have barely been out of the top flight in the last 60 years - 9 years in total including one 5 year spell where they dropped to League 1 and came back again.


Totally agree. Football has changed in the decades I've been watching it. The odds of certain premiership clubs getting relegated is probably close to zero now. For the rest it's increasingly about foreign owners making money themselves. The club being a merely a vehicle for their ambitions. As the Americans would say a franchise.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 01 Jun 2022 16:05

There have alway been a small section of top flight clubs where for them to get relegated it would need some serious mismanagement - I would City were always in that group and have only been relegated when things have been going badly wrong at the club.

You look at the top flight today and the following teams have either never been relegated or have been in the top flight for 30/40 years:

Man Utd
Liverpool
Everton
Arsenal
Spurs

Chelsea had a bad time in the 80s but have been ever present since 89 and never looked like going down again even before the RA takeover. Man City now are clearly part of that list. Only Everton have even come close but they are run terribly now, so that may impact them.

The top flight since the late 80s has pretty much always consisted of those 7 plus a revolving cast of others and that is very unlikely to change.

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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 01 Jun 2022 16:57

The top 6 in the Prem is basically always the same these days, it's usually at least 5/6 of the same teams, if Newcastle become a force with their Saudi billions backing them up, that's all the European places accounted for, so the same teams getting the European money every season, is that not just going to widen the gap between those teams and everyone else?


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Re: Rival Watch

by South Coast Royal » 01 Jun 2022 17:09

tidus_mi2 The top 6 in the Prem is basically always the same these days, it's usually at least 5/6 of the same teams, if Newcastle become a force with their Saudi billions backing them up, that's all the European places accounted for, so the same teams getting the European money every season, is that not just going to widen the gap between those teams and everyone else?


Probably.
It's more or less the same in Italy ,Spain and Germany with the occasional interlopers as we had with Leicester.

I wish Forest well but expect to see at least two if not all 3 of the promoted sides back down in the Championship the following season-we just hope to be there with them.

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Re: Rival Watch

by From Despair To Where? » 01 Jun 2022 17:33

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Well yes but comparing Man City, who whilst transformed have just completed their 20th consecutive season in the top flight and only spent 9 years outside the top flight in 56 years to Forest who will start their first season in the top flight in 24 years come August is a little apples with pears.


Of the past 20 some 14 have been funded with oil money though and of course a move to a ready made stadium in 2003. Easier to remain at the top when your shirt sponsor alone pays some £67 million a year as well.


Well yes - which makes the comparison to Forest, today, completely and utterly pointless.

If Forest stay up and get taken over by gazillionaires then the comparison becomes valid. But as said though, City have barely been out of the top flight in the last 60 years - 9 years in total including one 5 year spell where they dropped to League 1 and came back again.


The other thing to consider as well is that City have always been a relatively big club, Maine Road used to hold 85,000 people. No disrespect to Forest but, until Clough turned up they were a perennial 2nd division provincial side. I think Leeds with Revie, are the only other club who's fortunes are quite so intrinsicly linked to the efforts of 1 man. Forest's big club pretentions really are down to a 10 year period period between 1977 and 1987.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Jun 2022 17:52

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Snowflake Royal I'm in my 40s and I can barely remember Forest in the top flight.

I can't see 20 something pros being impressed that Forest were last decent, let alone winners, before they were born.


It's possible that for any players under 24 that their Dad can barely remember Forest being a decent top flight club.


Man City bounced around the leagues for decades. All that history air brushed aside now.

Only because they've won stuff again.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 01 Jun 2022 18:25

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It's possible that for any players under 24 that their Dad can barely remember Forest being a decent top flight club.


Man City bounced around the leagues for decades. All that history air brushed aside now.

Only because they've won stuff again.


Again 9 years out of the top flight in 56 is hardly bouncing around the divisions for decades esp when half of that was 1 spell.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Crowbar6753 » 01 Jun 2022 20:17

Not sure if anyone's noticed or bothered, but we've hit page 666 on this thread! Not sure if there's any superstitious religious folk in the group lol.....if there are they may be a tad nervous of posting for a bit :D

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Re: Rival Watch

by Sutekh » 02 Jun 2022 08:12

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Of the past 20 some 14 have been funded with oil money though and of course a move to a ready made stadium in 2003. Easier to remain at the top when your shirt sponsor alone pays some £67 million a year as well.


Well yes - which makes the comparison to Forest, today, completely and utterly pointless.

If Forest stay up and get taken over by gazillionaires then the comparison becomes valid. But as said though, City have barely been out of the top flight in the last 60 years - 9 years in total including one 5 year spell where they dropped to League 1 and came back again.


The other thing to consider as well is that City have always been a relatively big club, Maine Road used to hold 85,000 people. No disrespect to Forest but, until Clough turned up they were a perennial 2nd division provincial side. I think Leeds with Revie, are the only other club who's fortunes are quite so intrinsicly linked to the efforts of 1 man. Forest's big club pretentions really are down to a 10 year period period between 1977 and 1987.


Less than that even. Forest were immense around 77-81 but outside of that have just 2 FA Cups and spent a good deal of time circulating around divisions 2 and 3 as anything else. Same sort of thing with Leeds really, take the latter half of Revie out of the equation and they amount to 1 title win. Of course if Reading even had a quarter of what one of those clubs had managed it’d be something to be proud of.

However both those clubs do have a large fan base something which Reading will never build without years in the top flight and a few trophies.

But I hope these “smaller” clubs can build a challenge the 6/7 perennial clubs with money as top flight league football in most countries these days is utterly boring with the same old clubs dominating all thanks to £££££ going to the top clubs and everyone seemingly doing all they can to maintain that status quo.

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Re: Rival Watch

by From Despair To Where? » 02 Jun 2022 08:48

Forest were still finishing in the Top 3 in the late 80's.

Interesting to note that since the creation of the Premier League in 1992, they've only spent 5 seasons in the top flight and 3 of them resulted in relegation.

Maybe stating the obvious but to me, thats indicative of a migration of money towards the traditional powerhouses.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Pepe the Horseman » 02 Jun 2022 17:59

Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 02 Jun 2022 19:55

Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Jun 2022 20:10

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Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh

Feel like half the division is a relegation contender right now.

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Re: Rival Watch

by SouthDownsRoyal » 02 Jun 2022 21:16

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Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh

Feel like half the division is a relegation contender right now.


Agree

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Re: Rival Watch

by On Strings » 03 Jun 2022 11:33

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Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh


Pretty sure that's why he's jumped...

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Re: Rival Watch

by paultheroyal » 06 Jun 2022 09:13

No longer rivals - but what is going on at Derby? That should of all gone through last week - but funds not forthcoming. Just a glitch?

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 06 Jun 2022 09:49

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Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh


There are some decent, experienced managers kicking about the league at the moment and they seem like they are pretty stable as well as a club these days compared to what they once were. If someone like Mowbray was to get the job, I think they'd be safe again, but I can see why there would be doubts over their ability at this level.

A couple of loanees going back and maybe 1/2 decent players moving on and they'd be in trouble.

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Re: Rival Watch

by NathStPaul » 06 Jun 2022 09:52

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Pepe the Horseman Neil Critchley leaves Blackpool to become Gerrard's number 2. Ouch.


Interesting

Would think the Blackpool job was more appealing

They instantly fall to my relegation favourites tbh


There are some decent, experienced managers kicking about the league at the moment and they seem like they are pretty stable as well as a club these days compared to what they once were. If someone like Mowbray was to get the job, I think they'd be safe again, but I can see why there would be doubts over their ability at this level.

A couple of loanees going back and maybe 1/2 decent players moving on and they'd be in trouble.

You'd think Neil Critchley would have gone to the board to ask about transfer funds before taking the Villa job. If they would have backed him financially I don't think he would have left, wouldn't make sense.

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