Not Hard to see progress for the forseeable future

[Royal Lady]

We actually replaced all those who left with someone who cost more than we had originally paid for them (if you can untangle that)

I'm saying that it is obvious we would replace them with people who cost more than we originally paid, because we'd had them years ago and there aren't many players available these days for £25k in the case of Shorey, for example. Everything has risen in price, including footballers.

[Ian Royal]

We actually replaced all those who left with someone who cost more than we had originally paid for them (if you can untangle that)

I'm saying that it is obvious we would replace them with people who cost more than we originally paid, because we'd had them years ago and there aren't many players available these days for £25k in the case of Shorey, for example. Everything has risen in price, including footballers.

Now that I can understand and is a fair point. Did we sign any at League 1 level? That would be relevant as well. But then it also would be relevant if we signed any before the ITV digital incident.

[Baines]

We actually replaced all those who left with someone who cost more than we had originally paid for them (if you can untangle that)

I'm saying that it is obvious we would replace them with people who cost more than we originally paid, because we'd had them years ago and there aren't many players available these days for £25k in the case of Shorey, for example. Everything has risen in price, including footballers.

Inflation doesn't begin to account for the difference between the price which we paid for them and the price at which we sold them, so it's pretty pointless mentioning it tbh.

[Sun Tzu]

We actually replaced all those who left with someone who cost more than we had originally paid for them (if you can untangle that)

I'm saying that it is obvious we would replace them with people who cost more than we originally paid, because we'd had them years ago and there aren't many players available these days for £25k in the case of Shorey, for example. Everything has risen in price, including footballers.

I'm not sure even taking inflation into account paying £600k for Armstrong meant he cost 'less' than Shorey though.....

And it's not any more obvious that we replaced them with people who cost more than that we sold off our ex Prem players for more than we bought Championship players for...


The key point is we got very good replacements who were a step up from the original purchases (as they were at the time we bought them) yet we also made a very big profit on the deals.

[Royal With Cheese]

stuff

Schards - I'm sorry but you can just about justify your knee jerk reactionary posts after a dismal display against Ipswich in mid-September but to actually justify it against beating the only team above us in the league in January, doing the double over them in the process, is a bit rich. I can't argue with such personal logic so we'll just have to disagree.

I still think your post about Wolves is the wierdest thing I've read on here in ages. At first I genuinely though you were on a fishing trip. It's your view and you're perfectly entiltled to it.

[Ian Royal]

Still doesn't beat "Hahnemann's shit becuase he has short arms".

[Schards#2]

To witness something first hand does qualify your opinion more than if you just hear someone elses opinion on the radio commentary or in the press.

Well I'm not convinced by that entirely.

There are plenty of people on here and elsewhere who may have seen things but their analysis of what actually happened is pretty flawed and there are others who haven't seen things first hand yet seem to be able to make extremely pertinent comments about them. It's interesting that there are plenty of US based fans whose comments are almost always on the mark ....

Which in hindsight and the bigger picture yes they are right, it's always easy to form the opinion of 'we are 2nd, coppell great job etc' when you don't fork out money every week watching it. Result comes in, still in the top 2, want to be financially well off for years etc etc As you say it is all spot on in the much bigger picture, but if yo've actually gone to the game,might be miles away seen them get thumped then it's more understandable for the occasional out of proportion rant.

From my own personal opinion I'd sooner read an opinion from someone at the matches, even if it's an opinion I might not agree with or is a bit OTT than someone's that has seen precisely nothing of 98% of the games.

I suppose anyone who wants to comment on a game they haven't seen is entitled to an opinion but it's not their opinion, it's 100% based on the opinions of someone else.

Personally, I completely disregard the opinions of someone commenting on a specific game that they haven't seen as they are parroting the opinions of someone else and are, therefore, pretty much worthless.

[Murts-is-Lej]

The key point is we got very good replacements who were a step up from the original purchases (as they were at the time we bought them) yet we also made a very big profit on the deals.

Thanks Sun, I know I didn't say it very clearly but what I really meant is that we got £5.5m for Kitson but only paid £0.6m for his "replacement" NHunt. If Noel gives us even half the service that Kits gave us then I think that's a fantastic piece of business. In fact I'd be quite happy to be selling Pearce to ManU for £15m in a few years time to replace him with the latest £2m wonder-kid who wants a step up from the Championship to consistently mid-Prem-table Reading - now that would be progress...

[Sun Tzu]

I suppose anyone who wants to comment on a game they haven't seen is entitled to an opinion but it's not their opinion, it's 100% based on the opinions of someone else.

Personally, I completely disregard the opinions of someone commenting on a specific game that they haven't seen as they are parroting the opinions of someone else and are, therefore, pretty much worthless.

Why isn't it their opinion ?
You can form opinions based on any number of sources.
If someone listens to the game, then reads on line and press comments then they can quite reasonably express opinions on the match.

Being at a game does not guarantee in any way that you see things clearly, correctly or objectively.

[seahawk10]

I suppose anyone who wants to comment on a game they haven't seen is entitled to an opinion but it's not their opinion, it's 100% based on the opinions of someone else.

Personally, I completely disregard the opinions of someone commenting on a specific game that they haven't seen as they are parroting the opinions of someone else and are, therefore, pretty much worthless.

Why isn't it their opinion ?
You can form opinions based on any number of sources.
If someone listens to the game, then reads on line and press comments then they can quite reasonably express opinions on the match.

Being at a game does not guarantee in any way that you see things clearly, correctly or objectively.

That's a good point. If you really wanted to nitpick you could start asking what section people sat in as the view from Row Z (no offense RZR) is suddenly not as valid as someone else.

I read HNA, listen to RW and watch highlights on RW and watch like when I can on the internet. But in the end my opinion is still my opinion. I don't parrot others ideas but make up my own based on the sources available.

[Schards#2]

I suppose anyone who wants to comment on a game they haven't seen is entitled to an opinion but it's not their opinion, it's 100% based on the opinions of someone else.

Personally, I completely disregard the opinions of someone commenting on a specific game that they haven't seen as they are parroting the opinions of someone else and are, therefore, pretty much worthless.

Why isn't it their opinion ?
You can form opinions based on any number of sources.
If someone listens to the game, then reads on line and press comments then they can quite reasonably express opinions on the match.

Being at a game does not guarantee in any way that you see things clearly, correctly or objectively.

Not really, they can pass on the opinions of the commentator, and the opinions of the journalist but they can't give their personal opinion as they haven't seen it to comment.

Fair enough if they say "it sounds like Bikey played well" but not "Bikey played well" as they haven't seen his performance to form a personal opinion.

[Southbank Old Boy]

I'm just reading through this thread and a few things I thought I'd pick up on

Back in the day we paid (Ithink) 20,000 for Shorey who very quickly proved to be a very good player for us. In the summer Villa paid 3 million for the same palyer, who can't even get a gane fir them.

It took 8 months for Shorey to get a serious first team run out (ironically that excellent performance at Villa Park) and a few months more to really start to kick on and improve to the level of player he became

There is a massive difference between bringing a player with potential in to a League One side and giving him the chance to develop and learn and buying one that is ready to step into a side at the top of the Championship or a bottom of the table Premiership side

We paid (I think) 120,000 for Kitson who, again proved to be a very good player for us. We sold him to Stoke for 5 million, and he's proving to be a failure for them. We got Sonko on a free (I think) and he turned out to be a very good signing for us. We sold him to Stoke for 1 million and he, again, has proved to be a failure for them. We paid 78,000 for Doyle and he hasn't turned out badly for us.

How much have Sunderland, Newcastle, Man City and Tottenham paid for players? Any of them could go down. Spending vast ampounts of money does not guarantee success. To some extent it's not who you buy, even, but how you use them. Time and time again Coppell has shown that he doesn't need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on players to get the success he has had and will continue to have at Reading (I hope).

I agree with what you say about using your players well but you do have to get good players in if you want to survive at Premiership level. Players good enough to get by in League One/Championship are two a penny. Players good enough to compete year after year in the Premiership are a rarer breed and you have to pay more money for players who are of a greater quality. Thats not to say you cant pick up the odd bargin as well, but if all your willing to do is by bargins and hope they pay off then your probably asking for trouble

[Schards#2]

I suppose anyone who wants to comment on a game they haven't seen is entitled to an opinion but it's not their opinion, it's 100% based on the opinions of someone else.

Personally, I completely disregard the opinions of someone commenting on a specific game that they haven't seen as they are parroting the opinions of someone else and are, therefore, pretty much worthless.

Why isn't it their opinion ?
You can form opinions based on any number of sources.
If someone listens to the game, then reads on line and press comments then they can quite reasonably express opinions on the match.

Being at a game does not guarantee in any way that you see things clearly, correctly or objectively.

That's a good point. If you really wanted to nitpick you could start asking what section people sat in as the view from Row Z (no offense RZR) is suddenly not as valid as someone else.

I read HNA, listen to RW and watch highlights on RW and watch like when I can on the internet. But in the end my opinion is still my opinion. I don't parrot others ideas but make up my own based on the sources available.

If you're watching highlights then your opinion on a specific incident is valid as you've actually seen it but your opinion on someone's performance over 90 minutessimply isn't, compared to someone who's seen the whole game, as you're only seeing a fraction of the game and what you see is dependent on the edit.

[Southbank Old Boy]

That's 13 poor out of 30 - poor does not appear to be typical.

I'm not going to disagree with your opinion of the games, although I don't agree with more than a few of them, but I'd say for a team looking to win automatic promotion over a third of your performances being "poor" is a bit of a worry

I'm a firm believer that points will follow performances. By that I mean a team that puts in consistently good performances will generally get the results those performance deserve in the long run. Although picking up points when playing badly is a good quality, the fact that your playing poorly regularily probably means there is some significant improvements that need to be made somewhere along the way

[Sun Tzu]

Not really, they can pass on the opinions of the commentator, and the opinions of the journalist but they can't give their personal opinion as they haven't seen it to comment.

Fair enough if they say "it sounds like Bikey played well" but not "Bikey played well" as they haven't seen his performance to form a personal opinion.

Yes, really.

They can say 'playing with Hunt at full back really didn't work, too much of their attack came down that side and it restrcited us going forward'

or
'Doyle on the right was a bad idea, he's a centre forward and playing him out wide was a waste'

Opinions that can be reached simply by following the commentary and reaching your own conclusions. They may not be the views of the commentator or even mentioned.

You could even have an opinion that so and so played well if in the commentary you constantly here them putting in good tackles, winning headers, making good use of the ball.

Are blind people allowed opinions ?

[Southbank Old Boy]

What we need this season is a group of players that can finish in the top two or win the play-offs.

What we need next season is a completely different kettle of fish. You're quote makes it sound inevitable and implies it as a 'fact'.

Tell you what - how about we wait and see.

No, what we needed to do this season was invest in a couple of high quality players in preparation for next season. They would have bedded in ready for August then. Bringing in a whole swathe of new players doesn't seem to work and based on our last foray, we won't be doing that anyway. Whether we could sign these 'high quality players' is another argument altogether. Tabb looks to be a decent signing but the loanee from 'swich isn't exactly inspirational.
I don't think I could take another season like the last, I'd prefer to wash my car than turn up to watch that dross again.

Building a team over one summer is a very hard task

The best teams evolve over quite a time - just look at the 05/06-06/07 team, the foundations of that team took 3 or 4 seasons to build. Getting a team promoted is just one part of the job, the equally important piece is building the platform to add to that team and make subtle and easy to implement/integrate changes to the personnel and way of playing in order to suceed at the next level. I'm not convinced we're doing that bit at the moment

[Schards#2]

Not really, they can pass on the opinions of the commentator, and the opinions of the journalist but they can't give their personal opinion as they haven't seen it to comment.

Fair enough if they say "it sounds like Bikey played well" but not "Bikey played well" as they haven't seen his performance to form a personal opinion.

Yes, really.

They can say 'playing with Hunt at full back really didn't work, too much of their attack came down that side and it restrcited us going forward'

or
'Doyle on the right was a bad idea, he's a centre forward and playing him out wide was a waste'

Opinions that can be reached simply by following the commentary and reaching your own conclusions. They may not be the views of the commentator or even mentioned.

You could even have an opinion that so and so played well if in the commentary you constantly here them putting in good tackles, winning headers, making good use of the ball.

Are blind people allowed opinions ?

Of course, but their opinions will never be as valid as someone who's actually seen the game as they are based entirely on someone elses opinion. Would you give a blind art critic's opinions the same weight as a seeing one?

One man's pinpoint long pass is another mans hoof up the pitch.

[Sun Tzu]

But you can still form valid opinions based on secondary sources....

[Schards#2]

But you can still form valid opinions based on secondary sources....

Valid but not as valid as first hand opinions.

How would you feel about a blind ref?

[Sun Tzu]

How would you feel about a blind ref?

Well the ones we've had this season have been OK.....