Harte is Rubbish, not good enough for the Championship

[Wycombe Royal]

I'm sure you already know, but points are deducted for shots off target, and you have shown endlessly how innacurate Gyfli's shoot is.
I would suggest that is a very large contributing factor.

Since shots off target are a negative (you say) are you actually saying that Gylfi's wastefulness made him a less-valuable player?

No I'm saying it lowered his Actim score. I am one of those that doesn't place much value on the accuracy of the Actim index. It is impossible to accurately rate players based on trying to analyse everything into statisitics. You are living proof of that.

[Victor Meldrew]

Victor, try thinking of positive, rational reasons why Harte is being picked over Armstrong

Why?
When are fans ever rational?
BTW I forgot the other rather obvious point that Brian himself is of Irish stock.
Are you?

[Wycombe Royal]

BTW I forgot the other rather obvious point that Brian himself is of Irish stock.
Are you?

I am wondering when his statistical defence of Brian Howard will start, but you may have a point though as he isn't Irish.......

[Snowball]

Victor, try thinking of positive, rational reasons why Harte is being picked over Armstrong

Why?
When are fans ever rational?
BTW I forgot the other rather obvious point that Brian himself is of Irish stock.
Are you?

I thought everybody knew I was Shane's dad.

[Ian Royal]

BTW I forgot the other rather obvious point that Brian himself is of Irish stock.
Are you?

I am wondering when his statistical defence of Brian Howard will start, but you may have a point though as he isn't Irish.......

I'm considering picking that one up. But without the constant spamming of irrelevant stats, switching of goal posts and lack of any consideration of anything that can't be expressed as an easily sourced number.

[Hoop Blah]

He picks Harte because of what he offers going forward. No one is seriously questioning that part of his game are they?

Defensively he's a complete liability.

Not seriously questioning it as such, but I'd say that what he offers 'going forward' is over stated. There's no doubting that he is a great weapon to have as and when we get a shooting opportunity from freekicks around the box but his delivery from wide free kicks has been a little disappointing.

He isn't as good at getting forward in open play as he used to be (that's age catching up with him I guess) and although his distribution from the back is great to watch I don't think he does as much attacking down the wing as Armstrong did a couple of years back.

I agree that his attacking benefits are more than likely why he's still in the side (barring Armstrongs injury problems holding him back) but personally I'm not sure they outweigh the negatives of his defending*.

* his defending doesn't need to be direct problems caused by personal mistakes but his weaknesses, or perceived weaknesses by this teammates or opposition, might be creating other problems for us.

[Snowball]

Not picking a fight but how many of the goals since Harte arrived have been directly or partly down to him?

Palace

Goal 1 Shane won and scored penalty
Goal 2 SCORED Penalty (won by Long)
Goal 3 Kebe break

Boro

Goal 4. Kebe solo with help from Howard

Barnsley

Goal 5 HRK cross, brill header by Kebe
Goal 6 The killer (2-0 on 90 minutes) Great Free Kick
Goal 7 Karacan brill pass to HRK, solo goal

Ipswich
Goal 8 Harte Corner, Karacan shot deflected in by Church

Preston

Goal 9 Harte Corner half-cleared Karacan volley

Burnley

Goal 10 Long wins penalty then scores it.
Goal 11 Long wins free-kick. Harte free kick drops to McAnuff. Scores.
Goal 12 Long gets to by-line, cut back for Antonio to tap in.
Goal 13 Nice thru' ball from Howard, Church "shot"

Doncaster

Goal 14 Attacking free-kick from Harte, right on HRK's head. Ball across goal, Mills scores
Goal 15 Great work on left from Hunt, great cross, superb glancing header from Karacan
Goal 16 Crucial Equalising goal. Another great free-kick by Harte
Goal 17 Excellent thru' pass from Howard, neat cross from Antonio, good volley from Church

QPR

Goal 18 Church pass to Long (not really an assist) Long strides forward, cut in unleashes a belter from 25 Yards

Cardiff

Goal 19 Good burst by Church, Karacan supports and distracts defenders, deep cross, well tucked away by Hunt

Norwich

Goal 20 Harte scores in open play, scramble from a corner but coolly taken
Goal 21 Great ball from Karacan, delicate, very cool chip over diving keeper by Hunt
Goal 22 Penalty won by Long, scored by Long. (Whose pass to Long?)

So, of 22 goals Harte has scored 4 and been involved directly in at least another 4. 8 out of 22 is a lot. That, I suggest is why he's playing

[Royal With Cheese]

So, of 22 goals Harte has scored 4 and been involved directly in at least another 4. 8 out of 22 is a lot. That, I suggest is why he's playing

Can't argue with his stats going forward. Personally I don't mind him taking set pieces but do have issues with his "bombing" forward. To my mind he's not quick enough to get back and our back 4 is being pulled out of shape which is causing as many problems as it solves.

[Snowball]

So, of 22 goals Harte has scored 4 and been involved directly in at least another 4. 8 out of 22 is a lot. That, I suggest is why he's playing

Can't argue with his stats going forward. Personally I don't mind him taking set pieces but do have issues with his "bombing" forward. To my mind he's not quick enough to get back and our back 4 is being pulled out of shape which is causing as many problems as it solves.

Fairy Nuff. Can't we have a game plan that DOESN'T require the left-back to be Shorey?

[Hoop Blah]

I think that's part of the problem there RwC. He isn't the best at getting back as and when we inevitably give the ball away and the attack breaks down.

I think that played a part in Mills' daft back back pass. Don't forget he's our right sided centre half so I'm not sure why he was all the way over there in the first place. He should still be able to deal with the situation he was in, but the more pulled out of shape and disorganised we get the more situations you put your defenders in to cock up like he did.

I'm not even sure Harte bombs forward as such either. He doesn't seem to be as involved in the opposition half as you'd expect, and maybe it's my perception playing tricks with me, but I can't remember him over lapping much or even really helping out the left winger that often. He seems in no-mans land a bit too much.

[Royal With Cheese]

So, of 22 goals Harte has scored 4 and been involved directly in at least another 4. 8 out of 22 is a lot. That, I suggest is why he's playing

Can't argue with his stats going forward. Personally I don't mind him taking set pieces but do have issues with his "bombing" forward. To my mind he's not quick enough to get back and our back 4 is being pulled out of shape which is causing as many problems as it solves.

Fairy Nuff. Can't we have a game plan that DOESN'T require the left-back to be Shorey?

LOL, I was just thinking that myself.

[Royal With Cheese]

I think that played a part in Mills' daft back back pass. Don't forget he's our right sided centre half so I'm not sure why he was all the way over there in the first place. He should still be able to deal with the situation he was in, but the more pulled out of shape and disorganised we get the more situations you put your defenders in to cock up like he did.

Was very much my train of throught.

[Hoop Blah]

Can't argue with his stats going forward. Personally I don't mind him taking set pieces but do have issues with his "bombing" forward. To my mind he's not quick enough to get back and our back 4 is being pulled out of shape which is causing as many problems as it solves.

Fairy Nuff. Can't we have a game plan that DOESN'T require the left-back to be Shorey?

LOL, I was just thinking that myself.

Shorey was the best at it, but Armstrong and Bertrand excelled at doing the same (Armstrong maybe not quite so effective going forward but much better than given credit for) and I'd say even Robinson did a decent job at it before injury and Shorey finished him off here.

Harte has weaknesses. We just have to find a team to cover them effectively or hope that his (and the teams) strengths outweigh them.

[Snowball]

I think that's part of the problem there RwC. He isn't the best at getting back as and when we inevitably give the ball away and the attack breaks down.

I think that played a part in Mills' daft back back pass. Don't forget he's our right sided centre half so I'm not sure why he was all the way over there in the first place. He should still be able to deal with the situation he was in, but the more pulled out of shape and disorganised we get the more situations you put your defenders in to cock up like he did.

I'm not even sure Harte bombs forward as such either. He doesn't seem to be as involved in the opposition half as you'd expect, and maybe it's my perception playing tricks with me, but I can't remember him over lapping much or even really helping out the left winger that often. He seems in no-mans land a bit too much.

He does get forward (but is slow getting back) and I think this is the key, maybe explains a lot.

I keep saying that he's not responsible for goals A-B-C-D but thinking about it, how often is our back-four a three? Also, Mills dives in when often he's a fair way out, maybe because he knows he'll be rinsed for speed. Did it v QPR and completely missed Mackie who had a straight run in. Did it again yesterday and conceded a dangerous free-kick.


So is the answer fairly simple. "Ian don't go up if you can't get back."

Harte can still support the LW, or midfield, just a little more cautiously and keep the back four a little more sound.
Maybe that's what was happening when we were keeping all those clean-sheets and single goals?

[Hoop Blah]

Well done snowball, I read that one and low and behold it wasn't a flawed pile of pointless stats but a bit of discussion.

The team needs a balance, and players need to be responsible. Harte has always been a little wayward with his defensive work, that's always been the criticism held against him, so although McDermott might be able to influence him in that respect I'd hazard a guess that it's too late to change his ways. It's possibly why he was playing at centre back so much, and so effectively, for Carlisle.

When he first came into the side he may well have been concentrating on defending more sensibly because he was coming into a new side (as Cummings did likewise at left back) and is now reverting more to type as he beds in.

I think the easier solutions to the problem is firstly to play Armstrong or secondly to ensure that the rest of the defensive and midfield are more capable or willing to cover his weaknesses.

Finding the right solution will be a good test of McDermotts managment. He brought him, so it's on his shoulders to make it work.

[Snowball]

I think the easier solutions to the problem is firstly to play Armstrong or secondly to ensure that the rest of the defensive and midfield are more capable or willing to cover his weaknesses.

Finding the right solution will be a good test of McDermotts managment. He brought him, so it's on his shoulders to make it work.

Well playing Armstrong MIGHT help the defence, but where do we get the eight goals in 13 games from?

Armstrong had 1 goal and 3 assists in a whole season AND IN A MUCH BETTER SIDE THAT FINISHED 4TH.

[BR2]

I think the easier solutions to the problem is firstly to play Armstrong or secondly to ensure that the rest of the defensive and midfield are more capable or willing to cover his weaknesses.

Finding the right solution will be a good test of McDermotts managment. He brought him, so it's on his shoulders to make it work.

Well playing Armstrong MIGHT help the defence, but where do we get the eight goals in 13 games from?

Armstrong had 1 goal and 3 assists in a whole season AND IN A MUCH BETTER SIDE THAT FINISHED 4TH.

Where do we get the 8 goals from?
Simple-let somebody else take free-kicks and corners and penalties.
If there is nobody else in the team to take free-kicks and corners we really are in a bad way.
BTW to credit 8 goals is really stretching a point because some of those were in 2nd or 3rd phase after the kick has been taken but I suppose you will make that out to be part of Harte's cunning plan.

[Hoop Blah]

I think the easier solutions to the problem is firstly to play Armstrong or secondly to ensure that the rest of the defensive and midfield are more capable or willing to cover his weaknesses.

Finding the right solution will be a good test of McDermotts managment. He brought him, so it's on his shoulders to make it work.

Well playing Armstrong MIGHT help the defence, but where do we get the eight goals in 13 games from?

Armstrong had 1 goal and 3 assists in a whole season AND IN A MUCH BETTER SIDE THAT FINISHED 4TH.

That's the conumdrum though isn't it?

Perhaps without Harte at the back we won't need to score so many goals. We'd certainly miss his direct free kicks (2 of those goals?) but penalties we seem to be doing ok without him and although he's a threat from corners in the box I don't think he's significantly better than other options so would we miss that element so much?

[BR2]

Victor, try thinking of positive, rational reasons why Harte is being picked over Armstrong

Why?
When are fans ever rational?
BTW I forgot the other rather obvious point that Brian himself is of Irish stock.
Are you?

I thought everybody knew I was Shane's dad.

Amazing,and Harte's dad as well.
These Irish do have a reputation for doing a lot of breeding.

[Ian Royal]

For a start Long could have taken the penalty Harte scored. One down. Howard can take set pieces quikte successfully. That's another two or three. Anyone in the right place could have scored his goal mouth scramble. That's most of them sorted.

Personally I don't think you can really include his corner at Preston as a significant contribution to a goal as it was a dodgy clearance, after at least one other touch, falling to Jem that caused it. I assume that is the extra one to me you are referring to.

Out of interest, does anyone know who set HRK off for his breakaway goal against Barnsley wasn't it?

And which players could/should have been following up with Smith for QPR's third? I couldn't really see from the camera angles?