Dellor moaning about Vydra again!!!

[Top Flight]

Yeah, I suppose the tactics of play 11 men who can't score against 11 men who can't score, and then bring on someone that can score at the end did work a treat.

You lot can say "It's Vydra or Cox" as many times as you like, it's blatantly not true.
How many strikers did we have on the pitch when we beat West Brom, Rotherham and Chartlon? One is the answer.

Ola John is our only goal threat at the moment. Perhaps McDermott ought to be trying to convince him to stay for next season, rather than spend all day cuddling Reading FC's biggest ever flop. However lovely he is...

erm.....but he isn't a striker

We do not have to play with two strikers.
Not sure how I can say that in simpler terms...

Vydra is by far our most effective striker in a lone striking role. We would be toothless with Kermorgant, Cox or Rakels playing up there alone. I'm so glad Brian is our manager and not some of you's lot!

[P!ssed Off]

Actual lol @ anyone who thinks Vydra is our "biggest ever flop"

Joint record signing.
Former player of the division ending up costing over £1M per league goal (excluding wages).

Nobody else gets anywhere near that.

[Millsy]

FACTS:

1) Vydra has been a massive disappointment

2) Dellor is paid to comment on what he sees and to stir up discussion

So for Dellor to do his job and point out Vydra continues to be a disappointment and perhaps be opinionated enough to evidently generate discussion is completely reasonable. The stats he gave (points per game with Vydra in or Vydra out) were compelling, and a great piece of work to help generate discussion.

DEBATABLE:

1) Whether Vydra is a actually good player - I believe he is based on his record and what I've seen of him, but I could be wrong.

2) Whether his poor form for us is due the the formation, system, those around him - I believe at least partly so, but I could be wrong.

3) Whether his poor form for us is due to confidence - I believe that's at least partly so, but I could be wrong.

4) Whether he couldn't be bothered to try to play for us and just turns up for the money - I don't believe that at all, but I could be wrong.

In summary, there's no question Vydra has been a disappointment and Dellor pointing it out is very reasonable. The question is why has this been the case. I'd personally start him, given that the next best striker we have is probably Al Habsi.

[Maneki Neko]

no problem with him pointing it out, as you say its his job.
I don't mind him voicing his own opinion, though not in the way he exploded on Saturday, cos that was just extremely screechy and negative to listen to.

but he should also give the same weight to his criticism of other failing players.
and should also balance it up by giving equal weight to the good stuff he does.

[Hoop Blah]

FACTS:

1) Vydra has been a massive disappointment

2) Dellor is paid to comment on what he sees and to stir up discussion

It's not Talksport it's the BBC, and the way he's gone off on one over Vydra is not commenting or even generating debate it's just moronic outburst against a player in what is, IMO, an unacceptable way.

By all means he can stir up discussion by bringing thoughts and opinions to the table, even presenting his interesting stats but he shouldn't be childishly throwing his toys out of the pram every time one player fails to hit the heights he'd like.

It's more the way he does it than the idea that Vydra's performances should be questioned.

[Maneki Neko]

in the past when people were moaning about a player ive spent whole games just counting up all the goo/bad things that player does to try and force some objectivity onto It all.
ill do the same tonight for vydra, and then compare it to dellors thoughts on the matter

[Top Flight]

FACTS:

1) Vydra has been a massive disappointment

.

Vydra has only been a dissapointment in the sense that everyone was expecting him to be Thierry Henry. Ridiculous weight of expectation on Vydra's shoulders.

I would argue that Denniss Rakels has so far been a huge dissapointment. He seems to have very little to offer. But he only cost us £500K.

Today's £500K on Kermorgant was yesterdays €100K on Kevin Doyle.
Today's £2.5million on Vydra is yesterdays £800K on Carl Asaba.

£2.5 million in todays football money is absolutely nothing to spend on a striker. Burnley spent £9 million on Andre Gray. Ross McCormack cost £11 million. Jordan Rhodes around £11million.

Vydra gives alot to the team. If Vydra had only cost £500K and was on a permanent deal everyone would be wetting themselves about how good a player we managed to snare for half a million.

[genome]

FACTS:

1) Vydra has been a massive disappointment

.

Vydra has only been a dissapointment in the sense that everyone was expecting him to be Thierry Henry.

A little extreme... £2.5m for a loan and only two league goals is a disappointment. If he had got 10+, I think most would've been happy.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

Top Flight is right: there are two questions.

1 - Is Vydra any good? He may be a lovely bloke, he may make an effort, but no - 2 league goals for £2.5 million is rubbish. Genome is right - no one would have complained if we'd got a good Championship level striker who could score from the spot and chip in with 10 to 15 goals. The level of success he would have needed to hit for everyone to be happy was perfectly achievable - and he hasn't.

2 - Are Tim Dellor's comments about him appropriate? Well, I do think describing a poor miss by an out of form striker as being disrespectful to the fans was a bit strong. Other than that, he's only saying what most people trying to be objective would say. He has done the maths and is pointing that out. It's not like he mounts personal campaigns against players regularly to strike up a bit of controversy. Like me, he just cannot explain why a player who has so massively underperformed keeps playing. And, to be fair, didn't duck from asking McDermott the questions at least 50% of Reading fans must be asking.

As someone else stated earlier - the main thing that got Brian sacked wasn't Reading getting relegated, it was insisting on doing the same things time after time, even when they clearly weren't working. And it looks to me like he's doing it again.

[Top Flight]

Top Flight is right: there are two questions.

1 - Is Vydra any good? He may be a lovely bloke, he may make an effort, but no - 2 league goals for £2.5 million is rubbish. Genome is right - no one would have complained if we'd got a good Championship level striker who could score from the spot and chip in with 10 to 15 goals. The level of success he would have needed to hit for everyone to be happy was perfectly achievable - and he hasn't.

2 - Are Tim Dellor's comments about him appropriate? Well, I do think describing a poor miss by an out of form striker as being disrespectful to the fans was a bit strong. Other than that, he's only saying what most people trying to be objective would say. He has done the maths and is pointing that out. It's not like he mounts personal campaigns against players regularly to strike up a bit of controversy. Like me, he just cannot explain why a player who has so massively underperformed keeps playing. And, to be fair, didn't duck from asking McDermott the questions at least 50% of Reading fans must be asking.

As someone else stated earlier - the main thing that got Brian sacked wasn't Reading getting relegated, it was insisting on doing the same things time after time, even when they clearly weren't working. And it looks to me like he's doing it again.

2) Are Tim Dellor's comments proportional?

It is fair to criticise. But are his criticisms proportional? I don't think so.

[Maneki Neko]

Top Flight is right: there are two questions.

1 - Is Vydra any good? He may be a lovely bloke, he may make an effort, but no - 2 league goals for £2.5 million is rubbish. Genome is right - no one would have complained if we'd got a good Championship level striker who could score from the spot and chip in with 10 to 15 goals. The level of success he would have needed to hit for everyone to be happy was perfectly achievable - and he hasn't.

2 - Are Tim Dellor's comments about him appropriate? Well, I do think describing a poor miss by an out of form striker as being disrespectful to the fans was a bit strong. Other than that, he's only saying what most people trying to be objective would say. He has done the maths and is pointing that out. It's not like he mounts personal campaigns against players regularly to strike up a bit of controversy. Like me, he just cannot explain why a player who has so massively underperformed keeps playing. And, to be fair, didn't duck from asking McDermott the questions at least 50% of Reading fans must be asking.

.

3. is it wrong for dellor to expect Brian to go along with him in slagging off one of his own players?

......yes.....

As someone else stated earlier - the main thing that got Brian sacked wasn't Reading getting relegated, it was insisting on doing the same things time after time, even when they clearly weren't working. And it looks to me like he's doing it again

[Forbury Lion]

1 - Is Vydra any good? He may be a lovely bloke, he may make an effort, but no - 2 league goals for £2.5 million is rubbish.

The £2.5m is in the past, gone.... we have to forget about that. Brian McDermot didn't sign him at that price so it's largely irrelevant unless he was signed by someone still at the club in the same way that Denis Rakkells was signed by the club not by the manager.

The question has to be whether we play Vydra or not, either way it won't cost us or save us any money that we have not already paid out or are committed to paying, how many goals he scored or didn't score prior to today is also largely irrelevant, It's all about picking the best team for the next match and if he currently looks the most likely to score of those available, he plays. If having him in the team is going to improve the chances of someone else scoring or winning a penalty then he plays. He may be as good as many hoped, but unless there are better alternatives available to select we should not drop him - Few who are criticising Vydra are naming the player they feel should be picked ahead of him.

A separate question at the end of the season might be whether we buy Vydra or not and that's where contribution to the team versus transfer fee and wages will become a relevant factor again.

[Top Flight]

Here's to another stellar Matej Vydra performance tonight. I live in London, so I'll be leaving work shortly and making my way down to Reading to watch the game.

Come on Vyds. Let's have another great performance from you tonight. Just add a couple of goals to all the great play and then we can tell Dellor where to shove his microphone!

Signing out..............

[genome]

If any of our strikers score, it'll be Cox, former club and all that.

[Forbury Lion]

Here's to another stellar Matej Vydra performance tonight. I live in London, so I'll be leaving work shortly and making my way down to Reading to watch the game.

Come on Vyds. Let's have another great performance from you tonight. Just add a couple of goals to all the great play and then we can tell Dellor where to shove his microphone!

Signing out..............

Of course, if he scores tonight Dellor can always claim he is responding to the criticism he levied at him.

Personally, I'd like to hear Dellor interview Vydra personally and find out if he has the balls to criticise him to his face.

[Big Foot]

£2.5M for 2 league goals is an absolute steal compared to the £4M Derby paid for 0 league goals from Blackman so far.

[genome]

How many minutes has Blackman had though?

[Ian Royal]

I would sign Vydra in a heartbeat and build an attack around him.


He will come good, probably score a hat-trick against us next season knowing our luck.

And you simply can't ignore the fact he has EIGHT goals, and was a major part in getting us to the quarter finals of the FA Cup


I remember this same conversation about Shane Long (never his a barn door, "never will be a footballer")

It's worth noting that the issues with Long and Vydra are very different.

Long was unproven, didn't have as much demonstrable skill, wasn't suffering any sort of crisis of confidence, had had fitness / weight issues and was a perm squad member.

I'm not saying that persisting with Vydra wouldn't be a success, but the issues are very different beasts and makes it rather an apples and oranges comparison.

[Ian Royal]

Actual lol @ anyone who thinks Vydra is our "biggest ever flop"

Joint record signing.
Former player of the division ending up costing over £1M per league goal (excluding wages).

Nobody else gets anywhere near that.

Emerse Fae, Pavel Progrebnyak, Greg Halford, Sean Evers, Paul Brayson, Peter Van der Kwaak, Elroy Kromheer, Scott Murray, Mark Reilly, Bongali Khumalo, Marcus Williams, Brett Williams, Sam Sodje and Cedric Baseya would all like to discuss this matter with you.

Success of a signing is about more than £s of transfer fee per league goal.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

Emerse Fae was, without question, a bigger failure than Vydra.

None of the others are. Many of them may have been worse players, but given the astronomical amount of money we've paid for Vydra I'd say he was by some margin the second worst signing in the past 15 years.