Worried

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W&E Royal
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Re: Worried

by W&E Royal » 14 Aug 2009 11:51

Thaumagurist* That's a good post, W&E Royal. I hope nev monkey takes note.


Thanks, I just get fed up with all these people saying spend, spend, spend but we never do, i'm used to it. I would be upset if we were in the Prem and all our players were being sold but we're not. None of the players sold i really care about, yeah Murty was quality but he's helping Saints now, Hahnemann i never really rated. Lita has been out on loan twice in the last year!!! These people would never have played.

I am really happy that we have got rid of all these high earners, it made me sick that Stephen Hunt (of all people) were on (apparently) £35k a week in this league!! Our wage bill was £18 million last year, Burnleys was £8 million. I'd like to know what ours is now?

W&E Royal
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Re: Worried

by W&E Royal » 14 Aug 2009 11:53

Yes, but you are moaning saying that SJM is lining his own pockets when he clearly isn't. We will buy players, just calm the frick down.
Last edited by W&E Royal on 14 Aug 2009 11:54, edited 1 time in total.

Bristol Paul
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Re: Worried

by Bristol Paul » 14 Aug 2009 11:54

Alan Partridge
I was there at Elm Park I haven't seen this been posted anywhere else but maybe this is the reason why we're selling players:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berk ... 200288.stm

Reading Football Club has revealed a drop of about £1.5m in season ticket sales for the start of the new season. The club, which lost out on a Premier League place after a play-off defeat to Burnley, has sold 11,000 season tickets compared to 15,000 the previous year.

People want Madejski to invest in the club but why should he when there is clear evidence that a lot of Reading fans aren't willing to do the same. Personally I'm happy with the way the squad is shaping up.


Obvious why though isn't it.

2009 has seen some of the worst football played on the Madejski stadium pitch since the Tommy Burns days. We have barely scored any goals or won any games and also with what seems to be a load of players going out and nothing coming in,it's hardly the signs of a forward thinking progressive club. I think a lot of people had lost a little bit of heart in it last year, and are also testing the waters to see how it's going to pan out so will pick and choose.

Also £545 is a lot of money in today's climate.

I personally didn't renew, that was partly the reason although not the main one, which was as I play Saturday afternoons that is now my priority.

If Rodgers can get his young team to add 1,2 players and play with a similar style for the long haul then the crowds will come back. Wasn't a bad crowd first up, 19,000. Don't usually get that many for the 1st game.


Totally agree and a bit chicken in egg. I didn't renew my ST either, having suffered the football from January to the end of the season and not seeing why I should invest if the club were not going to do the same. If I had seen some evidence of this so called determination to get promotion that I probably would have invested myself, but having bought a ST last season on the basis that I was convinced the club would have made a determined effort to go straight back up with some investment in the team which were clearly not good enough, I decided that I wouldn't fall for the same trick twice.

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Re: Worried

by CMRoyal » 14 Aug 2009 11:55

nev monkey
W&E Royal We had a massive squad, we got rid of high earners and reserve players, we've sold Doyle who i think is the only player that Rodgers rates.

Murty- not wanted
Dubes- not wanted
Lita- did he ever play?
Hahnemann- maybe could have kept him

Doyle- £6.5m I'll miss him
Hunt- £3m BRILLIANT!! Not a Rodgers kind of player, can anyone honestly think he would fit in with the style of football we're playing
Bikey- £3m Has he ever been first choice??? Really good on his day but how many days has he had?

Who have i missed?

So really, how many players on this would honestly be starting every week? One? We've brought in Mills to replace Bikey and Dubes, we will get Smith and i think we'll get another.

How many more plastic fans have we got to tell that we aren't big spenders, we never have been and i'm pretty sure SJM isn't lining his pockets with our money.


If we buy Smith (not likely though is it?) & one other that will do for me. What you've just said is pretty much what I would like to happen.


Might have made more sense to wait till the end of the month before complaining then.

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Thaumagurist*
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Re: Worried

by Thaumagurist* » 14 Aug 2009 11:57

Exactly, the transfer window hasn't closed yet. :roll:


Isaac Hunt
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Re: Worried

by Isaac Hunt » 14 Aug 2009 11:58

nev monkey
W&E Royal We had a massive squad, we got rid of high earners and reserve players, we've sold Doyle who i think is the only player that Rodgers rates.

Murty- not wanted
Dubes- not wanted
Lita- did he ever play?
Hahnemann- maybe could have kept him

Doyle- £6.5m I'll miss him
Hunt- £3m BRILLIANT!! Not a Rodgers kind of player, can anyone honestly think he would fit in with the style of football we're playing
Bikey- £3m Has he ever been first choice??? Really good on his day but how many days has he had?

Who have i missed?

So really, how many players on this would honestly be starting every week? One? We've brought in Mills to replace Bikey and Dubes, we will get Smith and i think we'll get another.

How many more plastic fans have we got to tell that we aren't big spenders, we never have been and i'm pretty sure SJM isn't lining his pockets with our money.


If we buy Smith (not likely though is it?) & one other that will do for me. What you've just said is pretty much what I would like to happen.


I'd say that the Smith deal is still likely, especially with the sale of SHunt. The issue isn't always the transfer fee it's making sure we move higher earners off the wage bill. I think we'll have a couple of new faces join us before the end of August.

There have been so many "where has the money gone" threads on HNA. Can't believe people still haven't read the replies explaining the economics of it all (or perhaps they simply don't understand). If you've spent long enough supporting RFC then you should really know by now how SJM likes to runs things.

W&E Royal
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Re: Worried

by W&E Royal » 14 Aug 2009 12:05

Isaac Hunt
nev monkey
W&E Royal We had a massive squad, we got rid of high earners and reserve players, we've sold Doyle who i think is the only player that Rodgers rates.

Murty- not wanted
Dubes- not wanted
Lita- did he ever play?
Hahnemann- maybe could have kept him

Doyle- £6.5m I'll miss him
Hunt- £3m BRILLIANT!! Not a Rodgers kind of player, can anyone honestly think he would fit in with the style of football we're playing
Bikey- £3m Has he ever been first choice??? Really good on his day but how many days has he had?

Who have i missed?

So really, how many players on this would honestly be starting every week? One? We've brought in Mills to replace Bikey and Dubes, we will get Smith and i think we'll get another.

How many more plastic fans have we got to tell that we aren't big spenders, we never have been and i'm pretty sure SJM isn't lining his pockets with our money.


If we buy Smith (not likely though is it?) & one other that will do for me. What you've just said is pretty much what I would like to happen.


I'd say that the Smith deal is still likely, especially with the sale of SHunt. The issue isn't always the transfer fee it's making sure we move higher earners off the wage bill. I think we'll have a couple of new faces join us before the end of August.

There have been so many "where has the money gone" threads on HNA. Can't believe people still haven't read the replies explaining the economics of it all (or perhaps they simply don't understand). If you've spent long enough supporting RFC then you should really know by now how SJM likes to runs things.


That's the thing, they probably don't read the replies because they don't like what their reading, also they probably haven't been Reading fans for very long........lets see, did they buy half season tickets in 2005/06????

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Re: Worried

by Mr Angry » 14 Aug 2009 12:18

I genuinely don't get the level of pessimism that some of the posters on here have; the old era has passed, and with it the record breaking team, either through the clubs choice but usually through the individual players (who wants to keep a player who doesn't have his heart in it anymore - remember SHunt last season, and Shorey the season before that??).

So we sell - at top prices - players either deemed surplus to requirements or who don't want to be at the club, thus allowing young, potential stars of the next Reading team to come through into the first team from the academy; I thought thats what most Reading fans wanted to see - a return on the investment on the academy. It also means that we have a war chest for WHEN THE RIGHT PLAYER BECOMES AVAILABLE (eg Matt Mills) whilst at the same time reducing our debt burden ensuring our long term survival.

This is the most exciting and encouraging start to a new season (1st season in the Prem excluded) for many many Years, and those fans who can't accept that we won't spend millions that we can't afford in order to try and get promoted need to either get a grip sooner rather than later, or stay at home and support teams in the Premiership from the luxury of their armchairs.

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Re: Worried

by Mad Dog's Ghost » 14 Aug 2009 12:27

Tell you what, it would be great to have a couple of these BIG signings that everyone's convinced we're going to make running out for us tomorrow.

The season's started already RFC.


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Agent Balti
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Re: Worried

by Agent Balti » 14 Aug 2009 12:39

For a club like ours, success will come in cycles. We had our days in the sun, but we had to pay for them...all the contracts of Doyle, Hunt, Lita, Murty, Hahnemann...all of those players that have since gone HAD to leave once we spent more than a season in the Championship - it's financial sense. It took me a while to see this point of view too, but the club are taking a sensible approach...and it's highly necessary, especially in todays climate.

That doesn't mean that we can't spend money, we can - it's the wages that are the killer. For the transfer money we get back from the likes the Doyle, Hunt and Bikey means we can compete when it comes to shelling out for transfers but we can't pay Premiership wages anymore because we're not there. That's the simple fact of it. We can afford a couple of high earners, but not a whole squads worth. (Those players who's contracts expired were not going to dramatically reduce their earnings by staying either.)

All the players that have been sold also 'want' to leave for various reasons. Like most managers, I agree with them when they say that you can't keep an unhappy player. Hunt wanted to leave because he wanted Premiership football (and a Ferrari), Bikey wants to leave to play in the World Cup. RFC had to sell players whilst their stocks are high, it's the nature of the business.

To say we are selling these players when we could keep them, would cripple the club financially, and be less likely to succeed because the old 'clique' of players aren't hungry for success. Brendan could no doubt see that from a far and more so when he became manager. It comes down to more than sheer ambition - but I stand by what the club are trying to do now. Relying on parachute payments is not the way to do it.

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Re: Worried

by Focher » 14 Aug 2009 12:45

brendywendy Is that the same coppell who handed church his debut. And played karacan, pearce and kelly for chunks of last season? And all that bignall and mooneys goals v burton prove is that theyre good enough for div 2. That said we will be buying, and the other kids could all progress and prove themselves in this league. We are building for winning the league with a team of graduates next season which would equal coppells 106 achievements imo. Dont panic!


and also the Coppell who dropped Karacan and Pearce as soon as they had 1 poor game, and also the Coppell who handed Church his debut in the most important game of the season under pressure to change things. Coppell was a fantastic manager but like a pensioner doesn't like change.

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Re: Worried

by Snowball » 14 Aug 2009 12:53

What is going on now is brilliant.


We are drastically reducing the wage bill.

We are accruing capital/income in the form of fees and further fee payments.

We are filling the side with keen, aggressive, HUNGRY players who will get better and better.

We are building a side which could stay essentially the same for a decade.

We have paid a million to bring in a manager and team with exactly the right skills to shape a young side.

We have an excellent stadium, excellent pitch, great new style of play.

Seems to me RFC are consciously building an almost totally new side with an eye to being in the Premiership again,
probably not this year unless we get a bit lucky, but with a fantastic chance next year. And if 2010-11 is a miss
and these kids are still together, just how good will they be then?

My only worry would be that the kids start to shine, Premiership clubs start calling and we can't keep the kids together.

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Re: Worried

by Jimmy the Tree » 14 Aug 2009 13:00

I'm worried that with all those leaving, people on here will run out of players to criticise and scapegoat.


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Re: Worried

by Royalee » 14 Aug 2009 13:01

nev monkey So, another player leaves us for a fair sum of money & still we're told that the club is ambitious to get back up as soon as possible. We look to have a great manager, the young players, on the whole look fantastic, so why oh why are we not spending some of the cash brought in on a couple of real quality players?

Imagine how good the Forest game would have been if we had a quality striker up front, someone who can make a chance from nothing (or at least hold the ball up). The infrastructure at this club seems to be superb, we don't need to replace all the players that have left because it seems that there are enough youth team players coming through, who although raw, seem to be full of talent. If we combine this with a new striker & winger (possibly also another midfielder) we could well be in contention for promotion. As it is though I don't believe that we will have enough to worry teams & that could well be our downfall.

So come on Madejski get some of that money out of your wallet & show us all that you really are as ambitious as you keep saying.


What is bad about selling your worst players for silly money (Doyle excluded) and looking to add some real quality in addition to some excellent youngsters coming through to build a superb young team playing quality football?

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Re: Worried

by CMRoyal » 14 Aug 2009 13:02

Mad Dog's Ghost Tell you what, it would be great to have a couple of these BIG signings that everyone's convinced we're going to make running out for us tomorrow.

The season's started already RFC.


Our recent, third biggest signing ever will be there. But he might not get a place in the starting XI because the other two centre-backs did so well last weekend.

Come on guys, let's have some positivity for a change!

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Vision
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Re: Worried

by Vision » 14 Aug 2009 13:10

Agent Balti For a club like ours, success will come in cycles. We had our days in the sun, but we had to pay for them...all the contracts of Doyle, Hunt, Lita, Murty, Hahnemann...all of those players that have since gone HAD to leave once we spent more than a season in the Championship - it's financial sense. It took me a while to see this point of view too, but the club are taking a sensible approach...and it's highly necessary, especially in todays climate.

That doesn't mean that we can't spend money, we can - it's the wages that are the killer. For the transfer money we get back from the likes the Doyle, Hunt and Bikey means we can compete when it comes to shelling out for transfers but we can't pay Premiership wages anymore because we're not there. That's the simple fact of it. We can afford a couple of high earners, but not a whole squads worth. (Those players who's contracts expired were not going to dramatically reduce their earnings by staying either.)

All the players that have been sold also 'want' to leave for various reasons. Like most managers, I agree with them when they say that you can't keep an unhappy player. Hunt wanted to leave because he wanted Premiership football (and a Ferrari), Bikey wants to leave to play in the World Cup. RFC had to sell players whilst their stocks are high, it's the nature of the business.

To say we are selling these players when we could keep them, would cripple the club financially, and be less likely to succeed because the old 'clique' of players aren't hungry for success. Brendan could no doubt see that from a far and more so when he became manager. It comes down to more than sheer ambition - but I stand by what the club are trying to do now. Relying on parachute payments is not the way to do it.


Spot on. One of the reasons relegated premiership clubs can get themselves into the shit is that they ignore all the financial realities that relegation brings by assuming that parachute payments will cover them. Quite simply they don't.

Saw an interview with David Sullivan the other day and he was asked what they would have done if they hadn't bounced straight back. The look on his face was a picture and the phrase "batten down the hatches" was used. fair play to them their gamble worked and (for the 2nd time) they bounced straight back but their wage bill last season was reported at £24m and if they had failed then they would have been in serious bother this season.

Also its just a personal thing but watching a side based around a fair batch of our own academy talent is far preferable to me than watching them scratch around desperately in the transfer market for Premiership mercenaries that might just give them a chance of finishing outside the bottom 3.

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Re: Worried

by Focher » 14 Aug 2009 13:15

Agent Balti For a club like ours, success will come in cycles. We had our days in the sun, but we had to pay for them...all the contracts of Doyle, Hunt, Lita, Murty, Hahnemann...all of those players that have since gone HAD to leave once we spent more than a season in the Championship - it's financial sense. It took me a while to see this point of view too, but the club are taking a sensible approach...and it's highly necessary, especially in todays climate.

That doesn't mean that we can't spend money, we can - it's the wages that are the killer. For the transfer money we get back from the likes the Doyle, Hunt and Bikey means we can compete when it comes to shelling out for transfers but we can't pay Premiership wages anymore because we're not there. That's the simple fact of it. We can afford a couple of high earners, but not a whole squads worth. (Those players who's contracts expired were not going to dramatically reduce their earnings by staying either.)

All the players that have been sold also 'want' to leave for various reasons. Like most managers, I agree with them when they say that you can't keep an unhappy player. Hunt wanted to leave because he wanted Premiership football (and a Ferrari), Bikey wants to leave to play in the World Cup. RFC had to sell players whilst their stocks are high, it's the nature of the business.

To say we are selling these players when we could keep them, would cripple the club financially, and be less likely to succeed because the old 'clique' of players aren't hungry for success. Brendan could no doubt see that from a far and more so when he became manager. It comes down to more than sheer ambition - but I stand by what the club are trying to do now. Relying on parachute payments is not the way to do it.


A very good review of where we're at now

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Vision
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Re: Worried

by Vision » 14 Aug 2009 13:17

Royalee
nev monkey So, another player leaves us for a fair sum of money & still we're told that the club is ambitious to get back up as soon as possible. We look to have a great manager, the young players, on the whole look fantastic, so why oh why are we not spending some of the cash brought in on a couple of real quality players?

Imagine how good the Forest game would have been if we had a quality striker up front, someone who can make a chance from nothing (or at least hold the ball up). The infrastructure at this club seems to be superb, we don't need to replace all the players that have left because it seems that there are enough youth team players coming through, who although raw, seem to be full of talent. If we combine this with a new striker & winger (possibly also another midfielder) we could well be in contention for promotion. As it is though I don't believe that we will have enough to worry teams & that could well be our downfall.

So come on Madejski get some of that money out of your wallet & show us all that you really are as ambitious as you keep saying.


What is bad about selling your worst players for silly money (Doyle excluded) and looking to add some real quality in addition to some excellent youngsters coming through to build a superb young team playing quality football?


Whether they are our worst players is a matter of opinion (and we obviously differ on that), and after 1 league game to call them a "superb young team" is stretching it but I agree with that principle.

The way people talk you'd think that selling at an optimum value and then getting value for money from new signings or (heaven forbid) from within was a crime.

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SteveRoyal
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Re: Worried

by SteveRoyal » 14 Aug 2009 13:27

Agreed with the majority of decent posts on this thread.

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brendywendy
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Re: Worried

by brendywendy » 14 Aug 2009 13:28

Focher
brendywendy Is that the same coppell who handed church his debut. And played karacan, pearce and kelly for chunks of last season? And all that bignall and mooneys goals v burton prove is that theyre good enough for div 2. That said we will be buying, and the other kids could all progress and prove themselves in this league. We are building for winning the league with a team of graduates next season which would equal coppells 106 achievements imo. Dont panic!


and also the Coppell who dropped Karacan and Pearce as soon as they had 1 poor game, and also the Coppell who handed Church his debut in the most important game of the season under pressure to change things. Coppell was a fantastic manager but like a pensioner doesn't like change.


you said hed have given them no chance at all
otherwise id not have bothered replying.

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