Good Old Kits

[Norfolk Royal]

Whoever posted that drink driving is the same as attempted murder - 'greed

Attempted murder requires the court to actually prove beyond reasonable doubt that you intended to murder someone and failed.

In Kitsons case the intent was to get home and go to bed.

Manslaughter is unintended death though recklessness or incompetence, Had Kitson hit someone and killed them and failed to provide specimens he would have been guilty of this.

Attempted manslaugher does not exist, I may throw a hammer out of my bedroom window.... If it lands on the grass in my empty garden I wouldn't be charged with attempted manslaughter because it may have killed someone had they been there.

Drink driving is endagering lives, so the punishment deserves to be harsh... however it is not the same as taking lives.

Attempted murder?
What overreactive 6th Form rubbish did that come from???

Oh it's all so clear now.

Manslaughter: definition correct. Kill someone with a car and unless there have been big changes to the law I've missed, that's Death by Dangerous Driving. Which is a completely different thing in the eyes of the law (wrongly IMO)

You don't automatically get charged with death by dangerous driving if you kill someone.

[readingbedding]

Failing to provide a specimen for analysis carries a maximum sentence of six months in jail, a ban of 12 months and between three and 11 points on the licence.

He'll get a little ban and a few points on his Licence.

He'll be fine.

[Ian Royal]

Whoever posted that drink driving is the same as attempted murder - 'greed

Attempted murder requires the court to actually prove beyond reasonable doubt that you intended to murder someone and failed.

In Kitsons case the intent was to get home and go to bed.

Manslaughter is unintended death though recklessness or incompetence, Had Kitson hit someone and killed them and failed to provide specimens he would have been guilty of this.

Attempted manslaugher does not exist, I may throw a hammer out of my bedroom window.... If it lands on the grass in my empty garden I wouldn't be charged with attempted manslaughter because it may have killed someone had they been there.

Drink driving is endagering lives, so the punishment deserves to be harsh... however it is not the same as taking lives.

Attempted murder?
What overreactive 6th Form rubbish did that come from???

Oh it's all so clear now.

Manslaughter: definition correct. Kill someone with a car and unless there have been big changes to the law I've missed, that's Death by Dangerous Driving. Which is a completely different thing in the eyes of the law (wrongly IMO)

You don't automatically get charged with death by dangerous driving if you kill someone.

Good point. Though if you'd been drinking it would be DDD. Obviously you can run someone down and it be no fault of your own at all.

[TBM]

Who reckons Mr Loophole will be by Kitsons side?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... xhome.html

[Hoop Blah]

Attempted manslaugher does not exist, I may throw a hammer out of my bedroom window.... If it lands on the grass in my empty garden I wouldn't be charged with attempted manslaughter because it may have killed someone had they been there.

Another lucky escape for Sharpy's mum???

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

They want to change law so that if you just get caught it's a community sentence.

But if you kill someone you really get the book thrown at you.

I'd back that. Prisons are over populated and not good places to send people who arn't repeat serious criminals anyway. I'm in favour of more fines - possibly weighted to income and community service for non-violent crimes. (killing someone with a car fits under violent in my book

To continue off topic... the proposed change is actually to the sentencing for death by careless driving, not dangerous, which is almost certainly what would be the offence if you killed someone whilst driving drunk.

[Fezza]

I can't wait to be over the limit and attempt to kill people in my car tonight.
Highlight of the week.

Get real.

I'm not saying that you get in a car drunk and go out hoping to kill people, all I'm saying is that if you get in a car drunk and drive it you are saying you are prepared to take that risk with other peoples lives. For me taking that risk is the same as saying you don't care if you do run someone down.

Whether DK is innocent or not (and I really for the sake of RFC hope it's a big missunderstanding) I stick by my views on drink driving.

To quote the Australian campaign "Don't be a Bloody idiot"

[Fezza]

They want to change law so that if you just get caught it's a community sentence.

But if you kill someone you really get the book thrown at you.

I'd back that. Prisons are over populated and not good places to send people who arn't repeat serious criminals anyway. I'm in favour of more fines - possibly weighted to income and community service for non-violent crimes. (killing someone with a car fits under violent in my book

I go back to my initial post where I said I thought he should be fined his wages for the rest of the season and they should be donated to the victims of drink driving.

[readingbedding]

I can't wait to be over the limit and attempt to kill people in my car tonight.
Highlight of the week.

Get real.

I'm not saying that you get in a car drunk and go out hoping to kill people, all I'm saying is that if you get in a car drunk and drive it you are saying you are prepared to take that risk with other peoples lives. For me taking that risk is the same as saying you don't care if you do run someone down.

Whether DK is innocent or not (and I really for the sake of RFC hope it's a big missunderstanding) I stick by my views on drink driving.

To quote the Australian campaign "Don't be a Bloody idiot"

Millions of people do it every day, from every walk of life.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is.

It's only because it's a footballer that people are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

[weybridgewanderer]

Do all those that think we should off load Leroy for his non football related antics also believe we should now get rid of Kitson for being such an embarassment to the club?

[Ian Royal]

They want to change law so that if you just get caught it's a community sentence.

But if you kill someone you really get the book thrown at you.

I'd back that. Prisons are over populated and not good places to send people who arn't repeat serious criminals anyway. I'm in favour of more fines - possibly weighted to income and community service for non-violent crimes. (killing someone with a car fits under violent in my book

I go back to my initial post where I said I thought he should be fined his wages for the rest of the season and they should be donated to the victims of drink driving.

Do that you have to do it for everyone. Kits could probably afford it, just about. A normally paid person couldn't. Ridiculous suggestion. Hefty fine yes, hefty payment to charity yes. All of his wages? No chance.

[Ian Royal]

Do all those that think we should off load Leroy for his non football related antics also believe we should now get rid of Kitson for being such an embarassment to the club?

No. As I have said many times, totally different situations.

[Fezza]

I can't wait to be over the limit and attempt to kill people in my car tonight.
Highlight of the week.

Get real.

I'm not saying that you get in a car drunk and go out hoping to kill people, all I'm saying is that if you get in a car drunk and drive it you are saying you are prepared to take that risk with other peoples lives. For me taking that risk is the same as saying you don't care if you do run someone down.

Whether DK is innocent or not (and I really for the sake of RFC hope it's a big missunderstanding) I stick by my views on drink driving.

To quote the Australian campaign "Don't be a Bloody idiot"

Millions of people do it every day, from every walk of life.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but it is what it is.

It's only because it's a footballer that people are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

No it's not, if it was you or anyone else I would have the same view. If you are prepared to take that risk with other peoples lives then you deserve more of a punishment than points on your licence, a small fine and possible prison.

On the fines front I think this should be means tested.

Many employers would sack their employees if they were caught drink driving, from RFC's point of view I really hope they don't.

[Royal Rother]

Blimey, I know I can keep a discussion going on well past it's "sell-by" but is this one still going round in circles?

[Fezza]

Do all those that think we should off load Leroy for his non football related antics also believe we should now get rid of Kitson for being such an embarassment to the club?

I don't think we should get rid of either. At this point in time neither have been convicted of a crime, were one of them to be convicted I would have to think about it.

[Fezza]

They want to change law so that if you just get caught it's a community sentence.

But if you kill someone you really get the book thrown at you.

I'd back that. Prisons are over populated and not good places to send people who arn't repeat serious criminals anyway. I'm in favour of more fines - possibly weighted to income and community service for non-violent crimes. (killing someone with a car fits under violent in my book

I go back to my initial post where I said I thought he should be fined his wages for the rest of the season and they should be donated to the victims of drink driving.

Do that you have to do it for everyone. Kits could probably afford it, just about. A normally paid person couldn't. Ridiculous suggestion. Hefty fine yes, hefty payment to charity yes. All of his wages? No chance.

Means tested perhaps?

[Ian Royal]

They want to change law so that if you just get caught it's a community sentence.

But if you kill someone you really get the book thrown at you.

I'd back that. Prisons are over populated and not good places to send people who arn't repeat serious criminals anyway. I'm in favour of more fines - possibly weighted to income and community service for non-violent crimes. (killing someone with a car fits under violent in my book

I go back to my initial post where I said I thought he should be fined his wages for the rest of the season and they should be donated to the victims of drink driving.

Do that you have to do it for everyone. Kits could probably afford it, just about. A normally paid person couldn't. Ridiculous suggestion. Hefty fine yes, hefty payment to charity yes. All of his wages? No chance.

Means tested perhaps?

Yeah as I believe I previously hinted at.

[SpaceCruiser]

Blimey, I know I can keep a discussion going on well past it's "sell-by" but is this one still going round in circles?

I'd have expected you to take an active role in this discussion. It's your sort of thing, isn't it?

[Fezza]

Yeah as I believe I previously hinted at.

I think an example needs to be made as well if he is guilty. Though I really hope he isn't and they don't!

[Gordons Cumming]

Blimey, I know I can keep a discussion going on well past it's "sell-by" but is this one still going round in circles?

I'd have expected you to take an active role in this discussion. It's your sort of thing, isn't it?

You and Royal Rother remind me of Hinge and Brackett that famous old double act.