New Owners - Redwood Watch

[West F]

We aren't operating on a Wycombe budget, we have a Cat One Academy. Wycombe couldn't dream of one of those. A Cat One Academy costs something like a third to half the normal operating costs of a L1 club on its own.

We've got pretty decent money for all our recent departures (in contract), despite being over a barrell until Couhig came in, and only one has left under him, for approx £2m as Hendo said.

Paudi O'Connor, Paddy Lane and Kamari Doyle are pretty top level L1 signings. Just because they don’t have a big flashy price tag doesn’t change that. Actually you can realistically put Burns in that category too.

Can we remember for a moment, that in April we were staring down the barrell of not existing this season. And went into pre-season with significantly less than 11 senior players in contract. With up to £10m of losses a season to cut.

We have an owner who has openly said he wants the club to pay for itself and we have a 5 year plan to get and stay in the Champ.


Now it’s good that it's becoming clear to more and more people we aren't going to buy the league or gave all he other clubs just wave us on to our divine place in the Champ .

But we can surely manage a bit of middle ground between expecting spending millions to piss the league and being midtable mediocrity for ever more.

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous. The football league issued its belated fit and proper status decision after the club was effectively in new hands. It saved face for them, a bit like kicking Dai up the arse as he was heading out the door.
The purchase of the club in its entirety for £25M is good business. It is like a turn key operation that requires sensible management. You could field a team half full of academy players in league one and be competitive. Like you say. There is a middle ground between austerity and financial hedonism. If it turns out to be the Wycombe model, then great. Maybe just tone down the trumpets, flame cannons and expectation. We will sign players you have to look up on the internet. It is the way of things now. But, i am never going to buy into the whole ‘just be grateful to have a club’ nonsense. It is a bit like the Jim Reaper telling the world that if he doesn’t make over a third of the workforce redundant, we will be out of business by Christmas. No truth in it.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

Different things can be true at the same time....

I am grateful there is a club standing because the sheer economics of running Reading Football Club in L1 make it a high risk investment at best...

The reminder that the new owners will be using a Wycombe Wonderers template is very pertinent - but importantly Reading is a much bigger footprint and scale....

The hype around what the new owners can do while "only spending what the club earns" is where there is a disconnect....

People will cherry pick what they want to hear or what they want the new owners to mean....

But being grateful to still have a football club doesn't mean accepting mediocrity - once you decide to take on the challenge of owning Reading, you have to have the stature to do it properly....

Whether they have or not is still to be seen - the end of the transfer window will be telling...

[WestYorksRoyal]

The issue is most clubs don’t live sustainably or within their means, and the lucky ones have committed owners who can afford the investment. I don't know which division we'd be in if all clubs only spent what they brought in, but the reality is we won't be in the top 44 budgets in the country (I.e., Championship) if we live sustainably. Smaller clubs like Stockport have wealthier owners and bigger budgets, and in their case they choose how to spend it well.

So Couhig and co are betting that they can do it smarter than our rivals and get us punching above our weight. Which is fine, but takes time and doesn't align to some fans' expectations who are used to seeing us in the top 2 tiers. When you see clubs around you making the signings which you're not, it makes you feel left behind.

I personally back them. The trend can be bucked, and last night showed how good our academy is; it's much better in the long term to invest there than on Alfie May's wages. But the football landscape has changed since SJM's era; a club of our size holding their own in the Championship without an owner underwriting losses is outperforming clubs on bigger budgets.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think maybe there is a difference of opinion in relation to the signs striker thing.
There is buya striker who will rip the league apart for 5 million and where I am which is just a plan b which we do not have at the moment.
Which I think is where most of us are, in vest 250-500k of the knibbs money on someone who can have a go if O Mahoney doesn’t work out.
Currently plan b is there is no plan b.

There is a plan b, and its Ehibhatiomhan.

[Snowflake Royal]

We aren't operating on a Wycombe budget, we have a Cat One Academy. Wycombe couldn't dream of one of those. A Cat One Academy costs something like a third to half the normal operating costs of a L1 club on its own.

We've got pretty decent money for all our recent departures (in contract), despite being over a barrell until Couhig came in, and only one has left under him, for approx £2m as Hendo said.

Paudi O'Connor, Paddy Lane and Kamari Doyle are pretty top level L1 signings. Just because they don’t have a big flashy price tag doesn’t change that. Actually you can realistically put Burns in that category too.

Can we remember for a moment, that in April we were staring down the barrell of not existing this season. And went into pre-season with significantly less than 11 senior players in contract. With up to £10m of losses a season to cut.

We have an owner who has openly said he wants the club to pay for itself and we have a 5 year plan to get and stay in the Champ.


Now it’s good that it's becoming clear to more and more people we aren't going to buy the league or gave all he other clubs just wave us on to our divine place in the Champ .

But we can surely manage a bit of middle ground between expecting spending millions to piss the league and being midtable mediocrity for ever more.

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous.

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

[linkenholtroyal]

I think maybe there is a difference of opinion in relation to the signs striker thing.
There is buya striker who will rip the league apart for 5 million and where I am which is just a plan b which we do not have at the moment.
Which I think is where most of us are, in vest 250-500k of the knibbs money on someone who can have a go if O Mahoney doesn’t work out.
Currently plan b is there is no plan b.

There is a plan b, and its Ehibhatiomhan.

I would say actually that’s Plan A now. But now plan b worries me lol. Need a plan C

[Sutekh]

I think maybe there is a difference of opinion in relation to the signs striker thing.
There is buya striker who will rip the league apart for 5 million and where I am which is just a plan b which we do not have at the moment.
Which I think is where most of us are, in vest 250-500k of the knibbs money on someone who can have a go if O Mahoney doesn’t work out.
Currently plan b is there is no plan b.

There is a plan b, and its Ehibhatiomhan.

Credit to WiFi, superb reaction to being dropped, just what you want from such a player.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

We aren't operating on a Wycombe budget, we have a Cat One Academy. Wycombe couldn't dream of one of those. A Cat One Academy costs something like a third to half the normal operating costs of a L1 club on its own.

We've got pretty decent money for all our recent departures (in contract), despite being over a barrell until Couhig came in, and only one has left under him, for approx £2m as Hendo said.

Paudi O'Connor, Paddy Lane and Kamari Doyle are pretty top level L1 signings. Just because they don’t have a big flashy price tag doesn’t change that. Actually you can realistically put Burns in that category too.

Can we remember for a moment, that in April we were staring down the barrell of not existing this season. And went into pre-season with significantly less than 11 senior players in contract. With up to £10m of losses a season to cut.

We have an owner who has openly said he wants the club to pay for itself and we have a 5 year plan to get and stay in the Champ.


Now it’s good that it's becoming clear to more and more people we aren't going to buy the league or gave all he other clubs just wave us on to our divine place in the Champ .

But we can surely manage a bit of middle ground between expecting spending millions to piss the league and being midtable mediocrity for ever more.

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous.

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

the last time Reading FC were in the third tier, the club spent big to get back to the Second Tier...

We famously lost in the PO final to a Walsall team costing £185,000 vs. our £3.1M team...

[Armadillo Roadkill]

I think maybe there is a difference of opinion in relation to the signs striker thing.
There is buya striker who will rip the league apart for 5 million and where I am which is just a plan b which we do not have at the moment.
Which I think is where most of us are, in vest 250-500k of the knibbs money on someone who can have a go if O Mahoney doesn’t work out.
Currently plan b is there is no plan b.

There is a plan b, and its Ehibhatiomhan.

I don't think there's much evidence he can do it consistently. He and Hunt both agree he's at his best coming in off the wing, not playing as a lone front man. He's not s striker.

[Snowflake Royal]

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous.

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

the last time Reading FC were in the third tier, the club spent big to get back to the Second Tier...

We famously lost in the PO final to a Walsall team costing £185,000 vs. our £3.1M team...

Yes, thanks. I was there.

There was a certain amount of can't afford not to get promoted quickly with the cost of the stadium needing recovering, and Madejski was absent swerving tax and leaving it to Howe. But I wasn’t talking about the last time we were in L1, I was talking about Madejski's brick by brick approach.

[RoyalBlue]

The issue is most clubs don’t live sustainably or within their means, and the lucky ones have committed owners who can afford the investment. I don't know which division we'd be in if all clubs only spent what they brought in, but the reality is we won't be in the top 44 budgets in the country (I.e., Championship) if we live sustainably. Smaller clubs like Stockport have wealthier owners and bigger budgets, and in their case they choose how to spend it well.

So Couhig and co are betting that they can do it smarter than our rivals and get us punching above our weight. Which is fine, but takes time and doesn't align to some fans' expectations who are used to seeing us in the top 2 tiers. When you see clubs around you making the signings which you're not, it makes you feel left behind.

I personally back them. The trend can be bucked, and last night showed how good our academy is; it's much better in the long term to invest there than on Alfie May's wages. But the football landscape has changed since SJM's era; a club of our size holding their own in the Championship without an owner underwriting losses is outperforming clubs on bigger budgets.

A fair assessment of the current situation. However, I'm not sure how long that model (wealthy owners bankrolling clubs until they get bored and/or run out of money) will survive/be allowed to survive before tighter controls are brought in. We came very close to the brink with Dai and now Sheffield Wednesday appear to be heading in the same direction. No disrespect to the clubs preceding us (e,g, Bury and Southend) but as bigger and bigger clubs get into trouble, the authorities and/or the Government/IFR have surely got to sit up, take notice and then effective action.

Probably all hopeless wishful thinking on my part though.

[West F]

We aren't operating on a Wycombe budget, we have a Cat One Academy. Wycombe couldn't dream of one of those. A Cat One Academy costs something like a third to half the normal operating costs of a L1 club on its own.

We've got pretty decent money for all our recent departures (in contract), despite being over a barrell until Couhig came in, and only one has left under him, for approx £2m as Hendo said.

Paudi O'Connor, Paddy Lane and Kamari Doyle are pretty top level L1 signings. Just because they don’t have a big flashy price tag doesn’t change that. Actually you can realistically put Burns in that category too.

Can we remember for a moment, that in April we were staring down the barrell of not existing this season. And went into pre-season with significantly less than 11 senior players in contract. With up to £10m of losses a season to cut.

We have an owner who has openly said he wants the club to pay for itself and we have a 5 year plan to get and stay in the Champ.


Now it’s good that it's becoming clear to more and more people we aren't going to buy the league or gave all he other clubs just wave us on to our divine place in the Champ .

But we can surely manage a bit of middle ground between expecting spending millions to piss the league and being midtable mediocrity for ever more.

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous.

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

The two are similar but there are significant differences.
Sir John built infrastructure first and foremost. The modern and appropriately sized stadium. The conference centre, hotel and Academy. These things were there to give us a financial advantage at the time. The more money they brought in, the less money he would have to put in. All of the time, the asset value of the club increased. He was willing to invest money in emerging talents and in players who had significant potential. As they gained experience and improved, they would naturally elevate the performance levels of the team. There were more successes than failures here, due in the main to diligence and ability of those who sought them out and coached them. The Cat 1 academy gives us an advantage over other clubs in our ability to recruit and nurture our own talented players. Which has proved to be one of the most important assets we have had over the last three years. This will only continue to get better with time, with the right stewardship.

Wycombe on the other hand lived within their means and have not developed or grown at all over the last ten years. They are still playing in front of 5500 fans in the same stadium and still without an adequate training ground and facilities that will take them to another level. There is nothing wrong with that, it is who they are. A good community club existing in their own sphere.

We are different. The infrastructure is there. The potential is there. The Wycombe model, wedded now to Sir John’s, will most likely be one that sees us in the upper reaches of league one. I would imagine that this would eventually lead to promotion. But, what happens after that, who knows. The gap between the Championship and the Premier league is a chasm compared to the one we stepped across last time.

[Esteban]

Apologies. More of a Wycombe budgetary model then. I just got sucked in by the exciting news, massive developments and watch this spaceness that has been going on.
The idea that the club would not exist is preposterous.

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

The two are similar but there are significant differences.
Sir John built infrastructure first and foremost. The modern and appropriately sized stadium. The conference centre, hotel and Academy. These things were there to give us a financial advantage at the time. The more money they brought in, the less money he would have to put in. All of the time, the asset value of the club increased. He was willing to invest money in emerging talents and in players who had significant potential. As they gained experience and improved, they would naturally elevate the performance levels of the team. There were more successes than failures here, due in the main to diligence and ability of those who sought them out and coached them. The Cat 1 academy gives us an advantage over other clubs in our ability to recruit and nurture our own talented players. Which has proved to be one of the most important assets we have had over the last three years. This will only continue to get better with time, with the right stewardship.

Wycombe on the other hand lived within their means and have not developed or grown at all over the last ten years. They are still playing in front of 5500 fans in the same stadium and still without an adequate training ground and facilities that will take them to another level. There is nothing wrong with that, it is who they are. A good community club existing in their own sphere.

We are different. The infrastructure is there. The potential is there. The Wycombe model, wedded now to Sir John’s, will most likely be one that sees us in the upper reaches of league one. I would imagine that this would eventually lead to promotion. But, what happens after that, who knows. The gap between the Championship and the Premier league is a chasm compared to the one we stepped across last time.

I think you've just answered your own question from earlier. There isn't a 'Wycombe model' as such, that was a team living within their own means and still being fairly successful whilst doing it. Couhig knew he didn't have the money to invest in the infrastructure needed, so he sold the club to a billionaire. Had Wycombe managed to stay in the Championship for one season longer and given Lomatadze the time needed to invest, they might still be there.

With Reading, as you've just eloquently explained, you have a club that can live within its means and operate at a higher level than Wycombe, owning to our relative size, fan base and cat 1 academy. Sir John took us from a small club with a history in the lower divisions and aging infrastructure, to a medium sized club, with modern infrastructure and established us as a tier 2 club - with a couple of flirtations in the Premier League. We had a golden opportunity there, but missed out, it happens. But nevertheless, Madejski was fantastic for us.

I think it's already being forgotten a little bit, just how much damage Dai did to the club. We took a hard hit and have dropped down a level as a result and it could have been far worse. It will take more than 1 transfer window (which is still open!) to get us back up to the Championship. And when we do get back up, Couhig will need investors ready to pull the trigger to keep us there and move us forwards again.

I think he's learnt his lesson a little bit in that respect, we have Aliya already on board and another about to join too.

I'm fairly comfortable with Redwood so far, despite my initial concerns. I can look past the over-enthusiasm, give them the time needed to make a difference and judge them at the end of the season.

[West F]

Firstly, where have you been the last two years, we were a biscuit from being gone not four months ago.

So when you say Wycombe model, you really mean Madejski model. Or just, running a football club properly model.

The two are similar but there are significant differences.
Sir John built infrastructure first and foremost. The modern and appropriately sized stadium. The conference centre, hotel and Academy. These things were there to give us a financial advantage at the time. The more money they brought in, the less money he would have to put in. All of the time, the asset value of the club increased. He was willing to invest money in emerging talents and in players who had significant potential. As they gained experience and improved, they would naturally elevate the performance levels of the team. There were more successes than failures here, due in the main to diligence and ability of those who sought them out and coached them. The Cat 1 academy gives us an advantage over other clubs in our ability to recruit and nurture our own talented players. Which has proved to be one of the most important assets we have had over the last three years. This will only continue to get better with time, with the right stewardship.

Wycombe on the other hand lived within their means and have not developed or grown at all over the last ten years. They are still playing in front of 5500 fans in the same stadium and still without an adequate training ground and facilities that will take them to another level. There is nothing wrong with that, it is who they are. A good community club existing in their own sphere.

We are different. The infrastructure is there. The potential is there. The Wycombe model, wedded now to Sir John’s, will most likely be one that sees us in the upper reaches of league one. I would imagine that this would eventually lead to promotion. But, what happens after that, who knows. The gap between the Championship and the Premier league is a chasm compared to the one we stepped across last time.

I think you've just answered your own question from earlier. There isn't a 'Wycombe model' as such, that was a team living within their own means and still being fairly successful whilst doing it. Couhig knew he didn't have the money to invest in the infrastructure needed, so he sold the club to a billionaire. Had Wycombe managed to stay in the Championship for one season longer and given Lomatadze the time needed to invest, they might still be there.

With Reading, as you've just eloquently explained, you have a club that can live within its means and operate at a higher level than Wycombe, owning to our relative size, fan base and cat 1 academy. Sir John took us from a small club with a history in the lower divisions and aging infrastructure, to a medium sized club, with modern infrastructure and established us as a tier 2 club - with a couple of flirtations in the Premier League. We had a golden opportunity there, but missed out, it happens. But nevertheless, Madejski was fantastic for us.

I think it's already being forgotten a little bit, just how much damage Dai did to the club. We took a hard hit and have dropped down a level as a result and it could have been far worse. It will take more than 1 transfer window (which is still open!) to get us back up to the Championship. And when we do get back up, Couhig will need investors ready to pull the trigger to keep us there and move us forwards again.

I think he's learnt his lesson a little bit in that respect, we have Aliya already on board and another about to join too.

I'm fairly comfortable with Redwood so far, despite my initial concerns. I can look past the over-enthusiasm, give them the time needed to make a difference and judge them at the end of the season.

There is a Wycombe model. It is one that lacks the financial investment in the acquisition of the best young players with potential to grow, along with their value. It manages financial risk by simply not taking them.