Looking up or Looking down?

[Ian Royal]

Last Season, this

Last season after 20 games we were 19th Reading 20 1-4-5 07-14 4-1-5 15-18 -10 GD 20 Points
This season after 20 games we are: 14th Reading 20 4-5-2 17-11 2-4-3 11-11 +06 GD 27 Points (A game in hand)

7 points, (effectively 8 with GD) 5 positions better off (with the game at Sheffield United in hand)

How can a comparison of 20 games last season and 20 games this season leave us with a game in hand? surely thats 19 compared with 20 or 20 compared with 21 if we still have 1 game to play?

He's comparing against us of 20 games last season and us 20 games this season, whilst pointing out in terms of league position this season we have a game in hand over most other teams. Makes sense in a round about way.

Mind you, not a lot of point in comparing us with last season, seeing as we went on a fantastic run after Xmas. I can't see us doing that this season.

[Snowball]

Last Season, this

Last season after 20 games we were 19th Reading 20 1-4-5 07-14 4-1-5 15-18 -10 GD 20 Points
This season after 20 games we are: 14th Reading 20 4-5-2 17-11 2-4-3 11-11 +06 GD 27 Points (A game in hand)

7 points, (effectively 8 with GD) 5 positions better off (with the game at Sheffield United in hand)

How can a comparison of 20 games last season and 20 games this season leave us with a game in hand? surely thats 19 compared with 20 or 20 compared with 21 if we still have 1 game to play?

Note the word "after" above

We are 14th, but missed the postponed Sheffield game (thus a game in hand on a lot of teams)

Had we won by two goals at Sheffield we'd be 7th today

[Snowball]

We've scored more than once in only 6 games out of 20 though, with 17 of our 28 goals coming in just 5 matches. We're currently on relegation form with just 6 points from the last 21.

Last 7 games WLDDDDD. That's EIGHT points from your arbitrarily-chosen 7 games.

Game 1 = 4-3 Doncaster
Game 2 = 1-3 QPR
Game 3 = 1-1 Cardiff City
Game 4 = 3-3 Norwich City
Game 5 = 1-1 Watford
Game 6 = 0-0 Leeds United
Game 7 = 0-0 Coventry City

EIGHT POINTS = 1.14 points per game all against top-end sides would result in 52/53 points in a season

[Ian Royal]

It's not arbitrarily chosen, it's deliberately chosen because the start point is clearly where we've lost our way recently and shows the run we're on at the moment.
And to be perfectly honest 8 points out of 24 is still shit. As is 11 out of 30.

16 points from our first 10 games.
11 from our second 10 games.

Even with a relatively poor start to the season we were doing better than we are now.

[Snowball]

"

Going to watch Reading is depressing these days. No flair players, no clinical finishers & some god awful defending.

In 20 League Games we have had 7 clean sheets and conceded just 1 goal 8 times, 2 once, in the first game of the season

We have, in fact, an extremely solid defence, based on the numbers, with that "blip" of ten goals conceded in two-weeks (Doncaster, QPR, Cardiff, Norwich)

Official Championship Best Defences

1 P20 12 Goals Conceded 0.60 Goals Per Game Queens Park Rangers
2 P21 18 Goals Conceded 0.86 Goals Per Game Swansea City
3 P19 17 Goals Conceded 0.89 Goals Per Game Nottingham Forest
4 P21 22 Goals Conceded 1.05 Goals Per Game Cardiff City
4 P21 22 Goals Conceded 1.05 Goals Per Game Millwall
6 P20 22 Goals Conceded 1.10 Goals Per Game Reading
6 P21 23 Goals Conceded 1.10 Goals Per Game Coventry City

[Snowball]

It's not arbitrarily chosen, it's deliberately chosen because the start point is clearly where we've lost our way recently and shows the run we're on at the moment.
And to be perfectly honest 8 points out of 24 is still shit. As is 11 out of 30.

16 points from our first 10 games.
11 from our second 10 games.

Even with a relatively poor start to the season we were doing better than we are now.

You are so fired up trying to score HNA points you don't READ

You said "six points from 7 games" You were WRONG. It was EIGHT points from 7 games. If you add the eighth game it's 11 points.

It's not 6 out of 21, it's 08 out of 21.
It's not 8 out of 24, it's 11 out of 24

If you are talking about when we "clearly lost our way" you mean the QPR game. That is SIX games.

Sure 5 points from 6 games, repeated across the season is relegation form,
but it is a totally STUPID way of looking at things when those last six games
are against QPR TOP, Cardiff SECOND, Leeds FOURTH, Norwich FIFTH, Coventry SIXTH and Watford EIGHTH,

8 of our last 10 games have been against sides that are now in the top nine

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Sorry Snowball I don't post on here that often but why are you just reeling off a load of stats & not addressing the issues?

If we have one of the better defensive records then it's more by luck than judgement. I think our defending has been awful at times. Every time we concede a set piece in a match I generally get nervous as Fed doesn't command his area that well & we always look likely to concede. There is a real lack of pace at the back & Ian Harte has been rinsed by wingers on numerous occasions.

And what about our strikers? They are categorically not good enough!!!!

[Snowball]

16 points from our first 10 games. 11 from our second 10 games.

Even with a relatively poor start to the season we were doing better than we are now.

1-2 Scunthorpe 23rd
1-1 Portsmouth 12th
1-1 Nottm Forest 15th
2-1 Leicester 13th (they were crap when we played them)
3-0 Crystal Palace 22nd
0-0 Millwall 11th
1-3 Middlesbrough 21st
3-0 Barnsley 10th
1-0 Ipswich Town 18th
1-1 Preston 24th


FIRST TEN GAMES OPPOSITION AVERAGE POSITION 17TH

SECOND TEN GAMES AGAINST, 1ST, 2ND, 3RD, 4TH, 5TH, 6TH, 8TH, 9TH, 16TH.

SECOND TEN GAMES OPPOSITION AVERAGE POSITION 5TH

[MmmMonsterMunch]

16 points from our first 10 games. 11 from our second 10 games.

Even with a relatively poor start to the season we were doing better than we are now.

1-2 Scunthorpe 23rd
1-1 Portsmouth 12th
1-1 Nottm Forest 15th
2-1 Leicester 13th (they were crap when we played them)
3-0 Crystal Palace 22nd
0-0 Millwall 11th
1-3 Middlesbrough 21st
3-0 Barnsley 10th
1-0 Ipswich Town 18th
1-1 Preston 24th


FIRST TEN GAMES OPPOSITION AVERAGE POSITION 17TH

SECOND TEN GAMES AGAINST, 1ST, 2ND, 3RD, 4TH, 5TH, 6TH, 8TH, 9TH, 16TH.

SECOND TEN GAMES OPPOSITION AVERAGE POSITION 5TH

I'm sorry but this means oxf*rd all. In a lot of those games the opposition were there for the taking & we failed to deliver as we can't score in a brothel & our strikers suck. You have to take each game on its own merits. Leeds for example were pretty crap IMO, we could & should have beaten them that day but you can't then say "Oh well Leeds are now 5th so it was a good point". That is a crap attitude to have & whiffs of mediocrity. We ought to be aiming to beat every team that we play at home - oxf*rd their league position.

[Snowball]

Sorry Snowball I don't post on here that often but why are you just reeling off a load of stats & not addressing the issues?

But I AM addressing the issues. The Jerks+Knees clan, as usual just go by results, end
without considering the standard of opposition. We have had a murderous fixture list
these last ten games (average position of opposition 5.4) have had two clear penalties
denied and have just not had the rub of the green. We are at worst a top-ten side that
will still have a chance of the play-offs with four games to go.

If we have one of the better defensive records then it's more by luck than judgement. I think our defending has been awful at times. Every time we concede a set piece in a match I generally get nervous as Fed doesn't command his area that well & we always look likely to concede. There is a real lack of pace at the back & Ian Harte has been rinsed by wingers on numerous occasions.

I have started threads on this board this season saying that my eyeballs say we've been lucky in defense
but after 20 games it isn't luck, is it? The fact are the facts. By current CCC standards we have a good defence
just one conceded goal over 20 games off being the fourth-best defence. The defence is clearly not the issue.

And what about our strikers? They are categorically not good enough!!!!

I TOTALLY disagree. Church had 12 goals last season from 29.5 games. Long had 9 goals from 26. Hunt in his full season got 13 from 31 playing 60 minute starts)

Yes, they are not hitting form right now, and it's becoming a confidence issue but it happens to many sides

In the 2008-9 season we finished fourth yet had a patch of FIVE blanks in 6 games, followed closely by a patch of 5 blanks in 7 games

0-2 Swansea City
1-0 Wolves (OG)
0-0 QPR
0-0 Preston
0-2 Bristol City
0-1 Nottm Forest

We then thought we'd turned the corner

2-1 Sheffield Wed
2-2 Plymouth
2-0 Charlton

but then the well ran dry again

0-1 Ipswich Town
1-0 Doncaster
0-0 Crystal Palace
0-0 Coventry City
0-1 Sheffield Utd
2-2 Blackpool
0-0 Barnsley



That is a sixteen game run where in TEN of the games we failed to score, in the eleventh our goal was an OG, and we managed just ten goals

We finished fourth.

[Ian Royal]

You don't get more points for beating someone higher up the table. So I couldn't give a rats arse what all those teams positions are now or was at the time.

And those strings of not being able to score in 08/09 was the reason we finished 4th and failed in the play offs rather than winning the division again. So using them as some sort of defence is idiotic.

Good teams win games and score goals. Average teams that will struggle occasionally look good but don't pick up results when they should. And we look like we should have had at least an extra six points from the last few games.

Poor form frequently feeds itself. We need to win some games and score some goals and soon, or we could be looking at a very long poor run and a drift into a relegation fight.

[Snowball]

We aren't having a poor run

[Ian Royal]

Six games without a win? Five points from 18? One goal in three games?

What would it take for you to think we were on a poor run!?

[Snowball]

Six games without a win? Five points from 18? One goal in three games?

What would it take for you to think we were on a poor run!?

We have played top sides and have held our own against all except QPR.

You can call that a "poor run". I don't.

Losing at home to Scunthorpe, failing to beat a screwed up Portsmouth, they are poor results, blowing it at Boro, that's poor. Drawing with Cardiff, or Norwich, or Coventry, or Leeds, or away at Watford where we rarely do well, not ONE of those results is "poor"

But they come in a string and the jerks' knees start to twitch

If you switched either the Burnley or Doncaster result and placed it in the middle of those draws, I doubt anybody would be complaining

We have had one defeat in eight games, while playing really tough opposition


Which of these result INDIVIDUALLY would anyone have said was poor? Probably at least 50% of nobbers would have thought, before the game, that a point in any of the last five games was "OK"

[MmmMonsterMunch]

"But I AM addressing the issues. The Jerks+Knees clan, as usual just go by results, end
without considering the standard of opposition. We have had a murderous fixture list
these last ten games (average position of opposition 5.4)"

No you aren't!!! You are just quoting meaningless stats. "Hunt got 13 goals in his only full season". Whoppy doo. He was playing up top with Doyle & that was bloody ages ago.

The return from our strikers is awful & I don't understand why you keep digging up shitty stats to try & prove otherwise.

Our fixture list hasn't been horrendous by any stretch. I haven't seen any teams at the Mad Stad that look unbeatable. And the current league means nothing - it changes all the time.

[under the tin]

The return from our strikers is awful & I don't understand why you keep digging up shitty stats to try & prove otherwise.

Our fixture list hasn't been horrendous by any stretch. I haven't seen any teams at the Mad Stad that look unbeatable. And the current league means nothing - it changes all the time.

^^^^^^^ Someone buy this poster a pint of Guinness.
The champ is historically the tightest league of them all.
This season is no different. It is truly a league where on their day, any team can beat any other in this division.

Our problem is that in order to beat another side, you need to score more goals than them.
Our strikers are struggling, the only threat we pose offensively is on the wings, and if those wingers are nullified, we resort to hoofball.

This is a mediocre league in the truest sense.
Leeds aren't 4th because they have a great side. They are there because that club's management, fans, and players WANT it more than we do.

We are possibly 2/3 players away from being able to elbow our way back into the top flight.
Equally, take 2 or 3 players away, and we could be looking at an away fixture in Wiltshire next season.
It's that tight.
The next few months will demonstrate whether the fire in the belly of the club has really gone out.

[Wycombe Royal]

I'm sorry Snowball, but this is a poor run of results. It doesn't matter who the opposition is the simple fact is that we haven't won in 6 games, we have only picked up 5 points from those 6 games, and we aren't exactly a free scoring team at the moment.

In the last 6 games we have fallen in to the bottom half of the table (and I also don't give a rats arse about having a game in hand - it is better to have the points in the bag).

Personally I see home draws against Coventry, Leeds and Norwich as poor results. They are not that many points ahead of us in the league and they are teams we should be beating, but the simple fact is we beat none of them and even had to rely on a "homer" ref to get us the point against Norwich. And in all these matches it was the poor finishing that stopped us getting the wins.

[Snowball]

We LET IN three goals v Norwich, one mistake and two really bad goals.

Doesn't the defence and midfield have to take some of the blame?

[Hoop Blah]

Watford, City and 'Boro were both playing top sides this weekend...I think they all did ok.

We're in a bod run of form, made more difficult by playing some of the tougher games we'll have this season, but make no mistake we're struggling to win games we should be winning.

We can't score goals. That's not just down to Long, it's down to the whole team, the whole squad, the whole club.

[Wimb]

Watford, City and 'Boro were both playing top sides this weekend...I think they all did ok.

We're in a bod run of form, made more difficult by playing some of the tougher games we'll have this season, but make no mistake we're struggling to win games we should be winning.

We can't score goals. That's not just down to Long, it's down to the whole team, the whole squad, the whole club.

^^^ pretty much this

But as I've mentioned before I get the impression that this is a team who will burst out of this mini slump rather then sink. This time last year we were misfiring and missing countless chances (Scunny, Leicester & Cardiff games all spring to mind) before we suddenly caught fire and to me that seems a far more probable outcome then a gradual slide down the table.

For all of his sometimes bs stats, Snowball's underlying message that Long isn't as bad as this run of games is a valid one. The guy HAS scored goals from open play in the past and HAS shown the ability to finish chances off. Now he may not be as good as what we need going forward but it's safe to assume he won't get any worse. It only takes him scoring 2 in 2 games to get us 6 points and suddenly we're looking at the playoffs again.