Cheer up Hob Nob!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

well Reading of course.

No, I'm sorry but its not really that obvious at all. They've got more history than us, are playing at a higher level than us and average crowds aren't that different at all. .

History doesn't win you points in the league, and with their very limited budget by premier league standards, they'll come down sooner rather than later. Once down, their crowds will drop back to 9000 or so, which is far lower than what we get.


Even in their glory days of the 50s, their support was poor by the standards or the day.

[Royal Rother]

Sadly, even with the revered Charlie Adam and Ian Holloway, they are going down this season.

[Victor Meldrew]

well Reading of course.

No, I'm sorry but its not really that obvious at all. They've got more history than us, are playing at a higher level than us and average crowds aren't that different at all. .

History doesn't win you points in the league, and with their very limited budget by premier league standards, they'll come down sooner rather than later. Once down, their crowds will drop back to 9000 or so, which is far lower than what we get.


Even in their glory days of the 50s, their support was poor by the standards or the day.

It's a small town,as are Burnley and Wigan so their support as a percentage of population is probably significantly higher than ours.

[Royal Rother]

Blackpool circa 140k, Reading 240k. Similar population density.

Average 2009/10 were 8,611 and 17,408 respectively.

Average for Blackpool this season 15,676, Reading in PL 2007/8 23,585. (Both would have been higher with bigger capacity I guess so the Championship numbers last year are probably more reflective.)

[Victor Meldrew]

Sadly, even with the revered Charlie Adam and Ian Holloway, they are going down this season.

Had a bet on that at 3/1 a few weeks ago when it looked likely that Adam would leave.
They are in free-fall even with Adam still there and at least they have had a go just like we did (Spurs 6-4,Pompey 7-4)but like nearly all promoted teams (see also West Brom and Wolves)they don't spend enough on defenders.
Defenders in our division are hopeless when they then come up against the quality of forwards in The Premiership.

[Jeffers217]

Coppell lamented about how his players got locked into the dressing rooms at the JJB after the game when Wigwam got promoted, the next season it was our turn.

His players learnt a lot that day

But then he did sign Doyle and cashed out on Lita which inevitably made us a lot stronger. Can't really see that happening this summer can you!

[Wimb]

Coppell lamented about how his players got locked into the dressing rooms at the JJB after the game when Wigwam got promoted, the next season it was our turn.

His players learnt a lot that day

But then he did sign Doyle and cashed out on Lita which inevitably made us a lot stronger. Can't really see that happening this summer can you!

Why not?

[Jeffers217]

Coppell lamented about how his players got locked into the dressing rooms at the JJB after the game when Wigwam got promoted, the next season it was our turn.

His players learnt a lot that day

But then he did sign Doyle and cashed out on Lita which inevitably made us a lot stronger. Can't really see that happening this summer can you!

Why not?

Because as much as I'm a fan of Donut, he praises his players beyond their quality so thinks we have what it takes in terms of personnel, when in actual fact we don't.

[Royal Rother]

So why did he sign 3 new players a few weeks ago?

[floyd__streete]

Enjoyed today, no day trippers

corporate hospitality must definitely counts as day tripping.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It's a small town,as are Burnley and Wigan so their support as a percentage of population is probably significantly higher than ours.

And? Even if that was true (it's dubious) Yeovil Town probably have a better support per head of population than Reading, and I'm not living in fear of them leaving us trailing in their wake any day soon.

The borough of Wigan has a population of over 300,000 by the way.

[SpaceCruiser]

No, I'm sorry but its not really that obvious at all. They've got more history than us,

Blackpool FC: founded 1887
Reading FC: founded 1871

Er, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here, we've got 16 years more history than they have.

[Libertine]

In response to the first sentence of your reply...are the fake hoops, the bluebirds or the canaries going backwards? All of them are actively trying to move forward and appear that they are.

I in no way, shape or form advocate spending like a drunken sailor to try to achieve that goal.

Then why mention either club?

The only way we will "achieve a degree of financial indpendence" is to put fannies in the seats.

At least it'd give fans something to do during the less interesting games.

In response to part one of your reply...all I am saying is that they made the commitment. Just because they are throwing crazy money around doesn't mean I am advocating we do that. We have a solid enough squad, because of the way developed talent, which doesn't need to spend mad money. But I still stick by my assertion we'd be right there with them if we made a modest investment in an established player, a striker to be specific. Hey I might be wrong but from where I sit I see a VERY solid squad which only needed a little nudge...not needing to throw around crazy money. It probably is all water under the bridge now seeing there is nothing which can be done at this point except pull for the lads hardcore and hope for the best.

And to prt two of your reply...

[Libertine]

Results drive attendance. Lack of results result in lower attendance and decreased revenues requiring the team to sell off more players as they develop in the future. But which direction are we heading in the long term? I know the history of the team, where we came from, and the realities of football but I think it is dangerous to believe that we will be staying at even this level, as some do, no matter what happens. I see other teams with the ambition to move up, and are doing so, while our ambition seems to be to maintain where we are.
The only way we will "achieve a degree of financial indpendence" is to put fannies in the seats.
The only way to put fannies in the seats is to get results. Endlessly having to sell off your best players won't produce the goal of those desired results.

It's nice to see someone else who can see the obvious flaws with the business model.
There is more than one way for a club to go under.
Sure, any business that is losing money has to keep a very tight control on its costs: but at the same time it must continue to at least maintain its revenue streams. If they don't, then you get into a downward spiral of cost cutting, which will ultimately affect the quality of the product you are trying to sell.
I'm sure that the club is indeed doing all it can to remain truly competitive at this level. The 64000 dollar question is whether that will prove to be enough. Next season will mirror this one in that there will be resurgent clubs coming up from League 1, and big clubs with big parachute payments coming down from the Prem. I fully expect to see all these clubs elbowing their way past us in the League table.
You can laugh up your sleeve at Blackpool's attendances, but if we're not careful, we could wind up with about 8k in League 1.

It really does seem like a major flaw in an otherwise good plan. I actually like the way the club is being run for the most part. But when a legitimate opportunity for promotion presents itself, to me, it is good business to seize that opportunity...you never know when the chance will present itself again. Carpe diem.

Next year? Who knows? We don't know who will be leaving the team. Shane? Jobi? Kebe? Feds? We have no idea what the squad will look like. My guess is it will be much younger. That being said your point about the new teams is a very good one. The teams which came down this year Pompey, et al. were weakened financially which provided the opportunity for us. Usually teams which get relegated like WBA and Newcastle have the resources and players to get right back. This year that was not the case. Next year we're probably have to compete with the likes of West Ham, Wolverhampton and maybe even the likes of the Villans or Everton to try to get one of those promotion spots...the PL is kinda crazy this year. Never mind the teams which are promoted. This year it was wide open.

The one thing I know is whomever the team puts on the field they will give it their all and we'll support them to the hilt...I just don't know if we have enough to prevail. I think we'll have to endure a couple years of "rebuilding" before we have the opportunity for promotion again...that is if we can hold onto the talent that is developed during that process and don't "need" to sell them off.

The other thing which is perplexing is SJM claiming that he wants to sell the team. Not the fact that he wants to sell but the fact that if we were promoted this year they would have been a much more sellable commodity being a PL squad. The PL is where the revenue streams are at. He probably could have got his 50M then.

[Arch]

Libertine, there are cautionary tales in each of your three examples. Cardiff have been throwing money at promotion for a long time - since we were in the PL, in fact. In the course of that, they were more than once in dire financial straits and needing the questionable support of mysterious foreign backers to get out of jail. QPR have deep pockets, but have actually proceeded very cautiously in the market. Ecclestone and Briatore bought in three and a half years ago, but last season they finished below us in a year when we were in the bottom three in February. I think their model is quite commendable, but this season does not tell the whole story about it. Patient might be a good description (except perhaps in their support of their managers). Norwich, promoted to the PL a couple of years before us, fell from grace so spectacularly that they ended up in the third division - remember Kebe-to-Long X 2 in the process of them getting relegated? What financial model and careful reconstruction has been necessary to get them competing at the level they are? Do they pay their players more than we do?

When you look at the teams who are doing well now, ask how they got there in the long run. Usually, it has to do with a lot more than who they bought in the last shopping spree.

[Libertine]

Good points Arch...

Like me reiterate I really do like our model. I prefer it to the the big spending one. And you are spot on that each of them are different. The QPR example is a good one. The only difference between them and us is that they have deep enough pockets not to have to sell off the talent they patiently developed. That is the only difference between us and them in terms of the model.

And your point about some of these clubs imploding from recklessly spending is another great point. I fully agree with you. But I just felt that this year, while not abandoning our overall model, one relatively modest, relative in the big scheme of things, purchase could have pushed us over the top.

One final thought, would QPR held on to the likes of Gylfi if they developed him? That to me is the difference in the ours and their model.

[Royal With Cheese]

No, I'm sorry but its not really that obvious at all. They've got more history than us,

Blackpool FC: founded 1887
Reading FC: founded 1871

Er, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here, we've got 16 years more history than they have.

Good to have you back big lad.

[Mr Angry]

One final thought, would QPR held on to the likes of Gylfi if they developed him? That to me is the difference in the ours and their model.

Unless I'm mistaken, aren't QPR owned by the guy that owns Benetton (who orders his F1 drivers to crash) and Bernie Eccleston, who basically owns F1?? Therefore, you aren't judging apples and apples with that question. IF a team have rich sugar daddies and can afford to turn down £7M, that doesn't mean that their model is better than ours; it just means they have a lot more money than we do.

Furthermore, they haven't actually "developed" anyone have they? Didn't Taarabt come from Spurs? We all know about Tommy Smith & Rob Hulse. Kenny/Derry/Faurlain/Miller/Chimbonda/Hill/Gorkis/Hall/Buzsaky/Mackie/Orr/Connelly/Routledge - none of them came through QPR's youth set up did they?

In fact, who in QPR's first team did? (I suspect none of them.....)

Therefore "OUR" model is to develop young talent in our youth team, and the best have a chance to make it into the first team.

"THEIR" model is to buy or loan in players with none of their youth team players having a chance to break into the first team.

To me, THATS the difference between "Our" model and theirs.

[Royal Rother]

[Wimb]

A general lol to anyone who believes that a club would turn down £7 million plus sell ons for a player with one year's Championship experience and in a team that was by no means certain to go up.

As I've said across other threads look at similar clubs and what's happened when the big boys have come in for a player. Crystal Palace sold Andy Johnson, Middlesbrough sold Adam Johnson WITHIN their parachute payment year, West Brom sold Zoltan Gera and Jonathan Greening, Watford had to sell Ashley Young while they were still in the Premier League.

If before the season we'd been saying 'we've got a real chance of automatic promotion' then maybe just maybe the club holds onto him, but you'd have to be in a QPR like state to take that sort of financial gamble. At the start of the season we hardly looked world beaters even with him in the team. Moreover nobody really expected such a mindblowing deal, the figures being quoted were around the £4-5m mark on this very site...

we lost ONE player this summer of any note and have so far used the proceeds to sign five or six players who have made the squad stronger. I don't think Gylfi would have helped us much if we had a back four consisting of Cummings at left back, Mills, Gunnar and Griffin which is what we were looking at after the Leicester game.