And its all gone quiet over there.....

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Vision
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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Vision » 13 Mar 2013 09:45

mr_number The 'long term' justification is that next time we're in the top division, Brian's not the man for us. Is that what you're thinking?

I think that's a pretty ballsy way to justify it, given that it's quite a task to get us back to where we are now.


Or even a whole new way of playing. Not that I think McD was necessarily a 4-4-2 dyed in the wool man as some might suggest as much as he thought it the most effective way to make best use of the resources he had.

Point is we don't know what AZ is actually like as a chairman. I'm clutchng at straws a bit but if he was an Abramovich sort then I think McD would have been gone in December. My hope is that this is a decision based on who can take the club forward. It's a gamble of course but then so is keeping faith with a manager who's been relegated in the hope they can turn things around the following season.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by The Rouge » 13 Mar 2013 09:59

Vision
mr_number The 'long term' justification is that next time we're in the top division, Brian's not the man for us. Is that what you're thinking?

I think that's a pretty ballsy way to justify it, given that it's quite a task to get us back to where we are now.


Or even a whole new way of playing. Not that I think McD was necessarily a 4-4-2 dyed in the wool man as some might suggest as much as he thought it the most effective way to make best use of the resources he had.


As I sit opposite him on the half way line, I watch his gestures when we are playing.

(My opinion)
I think he has clear but fairly rigid ideas on 4-4-2 and 4-5-1. He was always concentrating on the lateral spaces between defence/midfield, midfield/attack. He also tried to encourage the right amount (as he saw it) of pressing the opposition.

He did not seem, from afar, to be looking at how narrow or wide his fullbacks and wingers were playing, nor addressing that during play. That reason for me, is why I think a manager, or someone from the management team should sit in the stands first half at least, in order to understand and communicate in real time what is happening on this front for both teams and address it.

It is somewhat ironic that we played against Lambert on Sat. I have heard from two independent, knowledgeable Norwich fans, that Lambert had a plan for every team they played last season - whether in terms of playing personnel or tactics or both. McD seemed to do this more in the Championship (e.g. Cardiff away and cup game versus Everton) but not really in the Prem.

For all the (limited) talk of tactics on here, the biggest tactical failure in my eyes, was that in comparison to all other teams in this league, perhaps with the exception of Stoke and West Ham, our movement was terrible, almost non-existent at times. You only have to look at what the top teams - Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal do in this respect. A big part of why they are the top 5 in my view. That was obvious to me from game 3, game 6, game 9, throughout the season, but was not addressed.

I hereby apply for the manager's job. Vote change, vote Rouge.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by royal_cornwall » 13 Mar 2013 10:08

mr_number The 'long term' justification is that next time we're in the top division, Brian's not the man for us. Is that what you're thinking?

I think that's a pretty ballsy way to justify it, given that it's quite a task to get us back to where we are now.


Its all about opinions here. You think Brian is the man to take us forward, i and others think not. Its not like he wasnt given the chance.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by mr_number » 13 Mar 2013 10:11

Taking us forward, right now, is about winning promotion next year, not improving in the PL.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by royal_cornwall » 13 Mar 2013 10:22

mr_number Taking us forward, right now, is about winning promotion next year, not improving in the PL.



Steve Coppel didn't manage it under pretty much the same circumstances and arguably he's was more successful in terms of achievement.

Taking us forward for me is about the long term. Promotion back to the Premier within 2 seasons (but hopefully a return after one) with a management team better than we have at present. Or had i should say.


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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Royal Lady » 13 Mar 2013 10:53

BBCRB now saying this morning that they understand we haven't spoken to anyone yet about the job. Then go on to say PDC is the favourite - based, solely, I presume on the bookies offering such low odds on him purely because he was at our game on Saturday. Thinking about it, he might have been there to watch Villa cos maybe they're thinking of giving Lambert the chop....

Beginning to sound more like Wolves :cry:

I hope we get the right person in soon - not sure having Dolan as caretaker manager for the rest of the season would be the correct decision.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by under the tin » 13 Mar 2013 11:00

I take the same view as Vision here.
Things are going to change, and it won't always be the club driving them.
Pearce will go, and I fully expect Federici to be having a word in his agent's ear.
I'd be surprised if Harte does another season, nor Shorey. Pog may not fancy the Champ, and his huge wages might persuade the club to cash in.
Kebe's injury record is beginning to count against him, and i wouldn't be at all surprised to see Ledge and Jobi, (who know they have detractors here) look for a move, either.

Looking at it that way, a rebuild is highly likely. In any event, this group of players are proving that they can not hack it in the Prem. We're not joint bottom without good reason. A new broom is just what this club needs right now. I just hope we choose the right sort for the long term.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Hoop Blah » 13 Mar 2013 12:25

Royal Lady Then go on to say PDC is the favourite - based, solely, I presume on the bookies offering such low odds on him purely because he was at our game on Saturday.


When they talk about favourite for the job they're only talking about the bookies view, that's what being the favourite is! I totally agree that the bookies have installed him as favourite because he was at the game, available and local. It's where punters would probably be putting their money too, so the market will reflect that.

As for Dolan, I've no real issue with him being in charge for a few games. He's done well with the Academy, knows the players inside out, had a good record at Exeter and gets his teams to play decent football.

He'll be a fresh voice, perhaps not the one for the long term, but given that McDermott was taking us down and had seeminly lost the plot a bit, Dolan and a fresh approach for a few weeks might just give the squad a lift.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Ian Royal » 13 Mar 2013 18:08

mr_number Taking us forward, right now, is about winning promotion next year, not improving in the PL.

And sacking McDermott now is not about improving in the Premier League. It's about bringing in fresh perspective and ideas and giving the new person time to get to know the squad, work with them in competitive games, decide who should stay, who should go and how we should play and then prep for the transfer window opening and pre-season with plenty of time. But it does give the small possibility of a new man bounce in results which could do the job.

McDermott has a good record in the championship, but it's not that long ago we saw how quickly things can fall apart on a previously successful manager who's suffered a relegation with the same team. McDermott's strength has always been in unity and mentality. It's never really been in building a side for the start of the season or developing a good footballing style. It's entirely likely that under him we'd have started next season badly. We started every other one under him that way. In which case he's up against turning around bad form with a demoralised squad.

Maybe it could have worked. The decision was made that we have a better chance in with someone new. If that's the decision then keeping him until the end of the season was utterly pointless and actually unhelpful. Giving him a couple of months in the Championship to show if he can turn it around is a waste of time if you're not confident he can do it. Clearly Zingarevich wasn't. Whilst you maybe more confident, there's nothing to say you're right.

The proof will be in how we actually do. But even if it's badly it won't mean McDermott would necessarily have done better.


TBH the lack of an instant appointment just confirms to me that it was a hard decision for Anton and that he does want to largely stick to the Reading way. We'll continue to do things professionally and honourably. And no, there was nothing dishonourable about sacking a much loved but poorly performing manager. McDermott almost certainly would have retained his job for another six month if he'd managed to have us even just consistently about 4 points better off but still ended up with us being relegated. Because that would have involved us playing with more clue and being in with a reasonable expectation of being able to survive. Instead we've had a month of thinking we might just make it and the rest of the time looking nailed on relegation certainties.


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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by elman » 13 Mar 2013 18:28

Ian Royal, definitely the best post yet on the subject. Fully agree

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by The Rouge » 13 Mar 2013 18:29

fukkin elman!

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by floyd__streete » 22 Mar 2013 14:10

Any danger of any kind of statement from our owner? Some sort of idea of what kind of candidate we're looking for and why the timing of the sacking was correct, contrary to any sane view already expressed?

I bet even the Gestapo had better PR than this. Still, the players have all turned up for training according to the latest headline, so thats good then......

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Royal Lady » 22 Mar 2013 14:19

floyd__streete Any danger of any kind of statement from our owner? Some sort of idea of what kind of candidate we're looking for and why the timing of the sacking was correct, contrary to any sane view already expressed?

I bet even the Gestapo had better PR than this. Still, the players have all turned up for training according to the latest headline, so thats good then......

Yeah I saw that - but seeing as a few are off with international duties, it's hardly a big story and they can't do any "tactics" for the Arsenal game, cos half the team aren't there. :roll:

But yes, it's nice to know what high regard our owners hold us, the lowly fans in, that they can't even make any sort of statement.


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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by maffff » 22 Mar 2013 14:36

Royal Lady But yes, it's nice to know what high regard our owners hold us, the lowly fans in, that they can't even make any sort of statement.


Why should the club care about you?

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by mr_number » 22 Mar 2013 14:40

I particularly enjoyed the news story telling us that the team had arrived in Manchester before the game. For several days following that, I completely forgot we'd sacked our manager.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Royal Lady » 22 Mar 2013 14:43

maffff
Royal Lady But yes, it's nice to know what high regard our owners hold us, the lowly fans in, that they can't even make any sort of statement.


Why should the club care about you?

Not ME. US! Without US the club are nothing and they'd do well to remember that on occasion.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by maffff » 22 Mar 2013 14:45

Royal Lady
maffff
Royal Lady But yes, it's nice to know what high regard our owners hold us, the lowly fans in, that they can't even make any sort of statement.


Why should the club care about you?

Not ME. US! Without US the club are nothing and they'd do well to remember that on occasion.

Sorry, not a dig, a collective 'you', read as 'us'/'the fans'.

We moan about radio silence. We moan when statements come out that tell us nothing. At the moment the club can't really win and regardless of what they were to say either way it won't affect what 'we' do, just the angle at which we moan from.

And 'us' - it's only a small proportion that are following it so closely / on HNA? / are vocal about things.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Gordons Cumming » 22 Mar 2013 15:02

I applied, but was over-qualified.

Played too many editions of Championship Manager apparently.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Rex » 22 Mar 2013 15:20

Royal Lady BBCRB now saying this morning that they understand we haven't spoken to anyone yet about the job. Then go on to say PDC is the favourite - based, solely, I presume on the bookies offering such low odds on him purely because he was at our game on Saturday. Thinking about it, he might have been there to watch Villa cos maybe they're thinking of giving Lambert the chop....

Beginning to sound more like Wolves :cry:

I hope we get the right person in soon - not sure having Dolan as caretaker manager for the rest of the season would be the correct decision.

As time ticks by it does look like Dolan will be. We presumed the new manager would be in place before Arsenal. It's not going to happen is it.

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Re: And its all gone quiet over there.....

by Hoop Blah » 22 Mar 2013 15:27

Royal Lady
floyd__streete Any danger of any kind of statement from our owner? Some sort of idea of what kind of candidate we're looking for and why the timing of the sacking was correct, contrary to any sane view already expressed?

I bet even the Gestapo had better PR than this. Still, the players have all turned up for training according to the latest headline, so thats good then......

Yeah I saw that - but seeing as a few are off with international duties, it's hardly a big story and they can't do any "tactics" for the Arsenal game, cos half the team aren't there. :roll:

But yes, it's nice to know what high regard our owners hold us, the lowly fans in, that they can't even make any sort of statement.


I'm usually pretty quick to have a pop at the club for a lack of information but I think in this instance the quiet on who they're looking for is understandable.

They might be looking for a specific type of manager or they might be hearing from different styles to see which fits best for the way they see the club moving forward.

Any concrete information they give out now on either the process or the type of applicant will just be used against them if it drags on longer or they end up going for someone who doesn't quite fit the profile they say they might be looking for now.

I would like to have seen a bit more comment from the club about McDermott leaving though. He probably deserved a bit more appreciation for the good work he'd done previously, although they were never going to go into details about how or why they did it out of respect for him so difficult to give some info without being pressed for more than they wanted to give.

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