Adkins -what next?

[Ian Royal]

He's got a proven track record and improving all the time? WTAF - he's deluded. Just get rid now before he "improves" any more

He won promotion from this division with a newly promoted Southampton. Yes, he has a track record.

Things certainly seem to be getting worse, but I don't see what good sacking him would do.

Paying off Drenthe's contract is laughable. He isn't even at the club. If our players are worried about how much he's earning then they're idiots. Would they really feel better knowing he'd got a big lump sum instead?

Also @ any attempts to pin our downturn in form on Guthrie. He's been injured all season, and our form was significantly better with him in the side.

Back on topic, I don't see much point in sacking Adkins unless we replace him with someone with a proven track record of improving teams defensively.

My point being, clearly, how can he say he is IMPROVING?? Just get rid and get someone in who is hungry and wants to give it a go, not harping back to what he USED to be like

Because, you know, generally the best method of learning is by trying and failing. I think you're confusing him saying he's improving, with our performance improving. Probably better for him to say he's learning.

There's some hilariously stupid suggestions on this thread.

I said about two months ago this is the earliest he'd possibly be sacked and only if we were right in the relegation mix or fans had been actively and loudly calling for his head at a couple of home games. Neither of those has happened yet, so he's got until early January at least if anyone wants to have a moment of realism.

I stopped listening at three, but it sounded like we conceded first because of a young defender who'd previously been very good getting caught out (midfield [weakened to accommodate Cox as per fan demands] then went missing quickly for 2). We then seemed back in the game at 2-1, only for the same previously very good young defender to drop another clanger and realistically put us out of it. I'm assuming that what went next was either cavalier attacking and being punished on the break or confidence falling apart and returning to chucklebrother defending of a month ago.


As for Adkins staying or going, if he's going to go it has to be for at least one of three reasons.
1) We're going down under him - in which case we can try to roll the dice even if there's no options to support a new manager financially.
2) He's completely lost the crowd and there are loud Adkins out chants across consecutive home games.
3) We actually have an option of improving the squad significantly - so he'd need to go about nowish.

One isn't there yet by any stretch, two hasn't happened yet, three doesn't appear to be an option.

He's not doing very well, but his hands have largely been tied and he's proved at previous clubs he's a good manager. Not only that, but he's got a very good record at getting clubs into the Championship from League One, so even if we get relegated keeping him isn't an awful idea in that respect.

[Royal Rother]

Yep.

[sandman]

I'm afraid it's you that needs the realism Ian. He's failed and will continue to damage us further if he stays. People can take us not being at the top of the league if there is some sign of improvement and frankly, in his 80 games there has been none, certainly not the super slick passing team that yourself and others were touting on his arrival.

[Froomes]

As for Adkins staying or going, if he's going to go it has to be for at least one of three reasons.
1) We're going down under him - in which case we can try to roll the dice even if there's no options to support a new manager financially.
2) He's completely lost the crowd and there are loud Adkins out chants across consecutive home games.
3) We actually have an option of improving the squad significantly - so he'd need to go about nowish.

One isn't there yet by any stretch, two hasn't happened yet, three doesn't appear to be an option.

He's not doing very well, but his hands have largely been tied and he's proved at previous clubs he's a good manager. Not only that, but he's got a very good record at getting clubs into the Championship from League One, so even if we get relegated keeping him isn't an awful idea in that respect.

Ian, I appreciate you trying to put forward a reasoned argument for Adkins unlike most Adkinistas unfortunately your reasoning is flawed in this instance...

Re point one, if we carry on how we're going we are very much relegation bound, we're already displaying relegation form and have just been beaten 6-1 by one of the worst teams in the division.

Re point two, I'll give it two maybe three games at the current rate and the vast majority of the crowd will turn.

Re point three, I actually agree with you on this one, we won't improve the squad significantly in January, however that shouldn't be a reason to keep a failing manager.

Now for his hands being tied, again I agree with you, however, Rowett has gone into B'ham who are in a similar position to us financially and he's done wonders, yesterday's match is a prime example of what can happen if you get a new manager in, let's not forget they got beat 8-0 in October!

As for Adkins getting teams promoted, you're right he has, but it's been on the back of spending large sums of money (relatively speaking) something which we clearly don't have.

Time for Adkins to go...

[Ian Royal]

Oh and I'll add that any new manager who isn't going to get significantly supported financially would have to be a repulsive blood and thunder anti-football type. And that sometimes relegation is exactly what a club needs to bounce back.

See Norwich for example. Saints for a slightly slower bounce. There are others.

Comes back to what I said in another thread yesterday. The two biggest factors in good performance are confidence and form. Sometimes it's better to go straight down and start again, than to cling on to safety by your finger tips year on year until you finally succumb and slip away quietly for a long time.

[Woodcote Royal]

Apart from the odd decent match amongst his 80? in charge, this guy has shown no signs of having what it takes to get the kind of performances that informed opinion would expect from our current squad, let alone the over achievement from recourses at their disposal which was the norm under Pardew, Coppell and McDermott in their pomp.

Simply, Adkins should have been a dead man walking for months now, if not the last year.

On this basis, only his delusional apologists would let Nige spend what little money we are allowed to invest, given his track record in the second tier with the remnants of a Premiership squad and, at long, long last, 20+ years of investment in our Academy/Youth set up finally coming to fruition in the form of significant numbers of talented youngsters looking destined for regular first team action .

It is simply a crying shame to have to sit back while what has been achieved since we left EP, along with all the years of hard slog by many dedicated people from the Chairman down which got this club to a point many thought they would never see, slowly going up in smoke.

I'm one of an increasing number who can't face watching. Frankly, I'd sooner have woken up this morning to find us at the foot of League 2 with a limited squad fighting tooth and nail for league survival under a manager they'd run through brick walls for

My £400 a year is guaranteed because I want this club back to where it was ASAP once Adkins finally goes and I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford it but, we are regressing on a daily basis and nothing will change until someone in charge does what is so desperately required.

As others suggest, forget the squad. Do whatever is required to off load Adkins and go from there.

I wouldn't rule out tempting McDermott to return or promoting from within but neither would I rule out the majority of other Championship managers, most of whom I would see as a step up from what we have.

No one should allow Adkin's apologist to convince them that we would struggle to attract a disorderly queue of suitable replacements from the ranks of the unemployed or the currently engaged.

For the sake of the club I love, someone needs to get the ball rolling first thing tomorrow morning.

[Ian Royal]

Ian, I appreciate you trying to put forward a reasoned argument for Adkins unlike most Adkinistas unfortunately your reasoning is flawed in this instance...

Re point one, if we carry on how we're going we are very much relegation bound, we're already displaying relegation form and have just been beaten 6-1 by one of the worst teams in the division.

We're still mid-table. It's nervy. But until we're actively stuck in the bottom six or it's much closer to the end of the season, I don't think we're really in a relegation fight yet.

Re point two, I'll give it two maybe three games at the current rate and the vast majority of the crowd will turn.

I wouldn't be surprised, but that in no way invalidates the point in fact it's agreeing with it. Two, maybe three games takes us to Norwich (H) on 28 December. Loud Adkins out calls then and in the next home game, Middlesbrough, will take us to 10 January. Which is the earliest I said he'd go now.

Re point three, I actually agree with you on this one, we won't improve the squad significantly in January, however that shouldn't be a reason to keep a failing manager.

It is when there's a risk of getting in one who'll do worse. Or do no better with a more short-termist approach. At the moment at least we can draw positives from the likes of Hector, Obita and Cooper getting plenty of strong experience with which to develop. And getting worse is easily possible. Remember, it's not like Adkins has happy circumstances to work with.

Now for his hands being tied, again I agree with you, however, Rowett has gone into B'ham who are in a similar position to us financially and he's done wonders, yesterday's match is a prime example of what can happen if you get a new manager in, let's not forget they got beat 8-0 in October!

It can happen, but then they've done exactly what I said to do in point 1. They've rolled the dice because they were deep in a relegation fight and at the moment, it's working for them. But will it keep them up? Will it take them back to the top end in the next season or so? Who knows. It's a gamble.

As for Adkins getting teams promoted, you're right he has, but it's been on the back of spending large sums of money (relatively speaking) something which we clearly don't have.

I have one word to show that's just plain wrong: Scunthorpe.

[P!ssed Off]

You might be a Dutch Radio Star now Ian, but you stil talk oxf*rd bollocks.

[Froomes]

As for Adkins getting teams promoted, you're right he has, but it's been on the back of spending large sums of money (relatively speaking) something which we clearly don't have.

I have one word to show that's just plain wrong: Scunthorpe.

Is that so Ian?

Scunthorpe United: Adkins handed record budget - ClubCall
https://www.clubcall.com/scunthorpe-uni ... -budget-...
30 Jun 2009 - Nigel Adkins has been handed the largest transfer budget in Scunthorpe history and is ready to spend big this summer.

[SCIAG]

As for Adkins getting teams promoted, you're right he has, but it's been on the back of spending large sums of money (relatively speaking) something which we clearly don't have.

I have one word to show that's just plain wrong: Scunthorpe.

Is that so Ian?

Scunthorpe United: Adkins handed record budget - ClubCall
https://www.clubcall.com/scunthorpe-uni ... -budget-...
30 Jun 2009 - Nigel Adkins has been handed the largest transfer budget in Scunthorpe history and is ready to spend big this summer.

That was after promotion...

[Royal Rother]

[Froomes]

My mistake.

He still spent circa £1m in the two season previous to promotion, now that's far from pocket change to a league one club is it.

To say Adkins can mould a team capable of promotion without spending significant money is almost as laughable as me misjudging the year Scunthorpe got promoted!

[Eaststandman]

I think IR may have lost the plot, advocating relegation as being a good thing for motivating and engendering future success with the upward momentum born out of failure and nowhere other than up to go, desperate!

2 years on and an objective review of the situation is unlikely to produce a ringing endorsement of NA methods and effectiveness, I feel that in spite of everything being taken into consideration, the time has now come to seek out a new manager and accept that NA has taken the club as far as he can, and as far backwards as we are prepared to tolerate!

A change of pace now could have a positive effect and a combination of @rse kicking motivation and tactical skill is the tried and tested formula for success, the best management teams always have an articulate leader and a strong, single minded 2ic

[SCIAG]

My mistake.

He still spent circa £1m in the two season previous to promotion, now that's far from pocket change to a league one club is it.

To say Adkins can mould a team capable of promotion without spending significant money is almost as laughable as me misjudging the year Scunthorpe got promoted!

He spent about £700k across two seasons, but one of those seasons was in the Championship, and player sales were over £4m.

[leon]

Oh and I'll add that any new manager who isn't going to get significantly supported financially would have to be a repulsive blood and thunder anti-football type. And that sometimes relegation is exactly what a club needs to bounce back.

See Norwich for example. Saints for a slightly slower bounce. There are others.

Comes back to what I said in another thread yesterday. The two biggest factors in good performance are confidence and form. Sometimes it's better to go straight down and start again, than to cling on to safety by your finger tips year on year until you finally succumb and slip away quietly for a long time.

Hold on. You're saying the best way for us to improve our current league position is to get relegated?

Are you fucking mad?

[Ian Royal]

I think IR may have lost the plot, advocating relegation as being a good thing for motivating and engendering future success with the upward momentum born out of failure and nowhere other than up to go, desperate!

Do I write in some sort of foreign language that only a few people who post on here can understand? Because it certainly seems that way the bollocks that people come out with saying I've said.

[leon]

I think IR may have lost the plot, advocating relegation as being a good thing for motivating and engendering future success with the upward momentum born out of failure and nowhere other than up to go, desperate!

I'm fucking mad.

[Ian Royal]

I think IR may have lost the plot, advocating relegation as being a good thing for motivating and engendering future success with the upward momentum born out of failure and nowhere other than up to go, desperate!

I'm fucking mad.

nice.

[Froomes]

My mistake.

He still spent circa £1m in the two season previous to promotion, now that's far from pocket change to a league one club is it.

To say Adkins can mould a team capable of promotion without spending significant money is almost as laughable as me misjudging the year Scunthorpe got promoted!

He spent about £700k across two seasons, but one of those seasons was in the Championship, and player sales were over £4m.

Well that's not true, he spent just over 900k, he also managed to get relegated from the championship. Players sales is irrelevant, we have player sales of over 7m so not too sure what your point is there...

[Royal Rother]

Unemotional reasoned common sense is as good as a foreign language on Football Forums, so yes, I think you are onto something here Ian.