CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

[Sanguine]

I think HB was getting at Murray's contribution to all round play, rather than how many goals he may or may not score (we've seen for instance that given chances Cox is a decent finisher, whereas Murray/Blackman are equally profligate).

Can you really see Blackman contributing anywhere near as much to the team performance as Murray? That's where the worry lies.

[sandman]

Where does the assumption that it's going to be Blackman who comes in to replace him come from? Why not Cox or Pog coming back into the team?

[Woodcote Royal]

I think HB was getting at Murray's contribution to all round play, rather than how many goals he may or may not score (we've seen for instance that given chances Cox is a decent finisher, whereas Murray/Blackman are equally profligate).

Can you really see Blackman contributing anywhere near as much to the team performance as Murray? That's where the worry lies.

No I can't. That's why I said I doubt that he's answer.

But, who knows?

Most things are looking better under new management and, given the chance, one or all of Pog, Guthrie or Blackman could step up to the plate.

Has the Russian who scored with that great header against Chelsea gone for good or, has he spent the last year or so on a massive sulk fest?

The amount we're paying him every week makes it well worth finding out one way or the other.

[Hoop Blah]

Exactly Comonruz. Murray has a more than good enough scoring record to stand up to scrutiny but his all-round play has been excellent as well.

Murray did well in the build up to Cox's goal for just one example and he occupies defenders much more than Blackman does. Blackman has looked dangerous at times this season but more often than not his dangerous moments are beating a man and creating something for himself and not good team play and making something happen for someone else (I think he's been criticised for a selfish bit of play that potentially cost us two points at Brighton for example) and that's why I think he's struggled to hold down a place in the side even when we've been poor this season.

Yesterday showed that we need to play as an organised team in order to succeed. I'm not sure Blackman can do that, and although I like a lot of what Pogrebnyak brings to the side, he's not shown he can contribute as well as Murray has.

On the Guthrie comment, I don't think he was really played further forward. I saw it more as a 4-1-4-1 when he came on, with Williams as the 1 in front of the back four and with Guthrie just making the more forward runs when we needed him too because he had the fresh legs. That might be something we look at for certain games or periods of games but it shouldn't be seen as a way to justify not having the forwards available for to continue the progress we've seen already over the Clarke's first few games.

[Hoop Blah]

Where does the assumption that it's going to be Blackman who comes in to replace him come from? Why not Cox or Pog coming back into the team?

I don't think we can play two of Simon Cox sandman, and he's not the same kind of player as Murray anyway, hence why they've struck up a reasonable partnership.

Pogrebnyak is probably a bit of both Cox and Murray and would be the most natural replacement for Murray but I'm suggesting Blackman because Pogrebnyak is currently injured isn't he? He's also shown he's very inconsistent for us and hasn't had the impact that Murray has over his time here.

[sandman]

Where does the assumption that it's going to be Blackman who comes in to replace him come from? Why not Cox or Pog coming back into the team?

I don't think we can play two of Simon Cox sandman, and he's not the same kind of player as Murray anyway, hence why they've struck up a reasonable partnership.

Pogrebnyak is probably a bit of both Cox and Murray and would be the most natural replacement for Murray but I'm suggesting Blackman because Pogrebnyak is currently injured isn't he? He's also shown he's very inconsistent for us and hasn't had the impact that Murray has over his time here.

Cox is just as likely a candid\ate as Blackman, personally wouldn't play Cox there but there's no reason to assume it's going to be Blackman.

[Royal Ginger]

Jason Roberts is both a warning and a recommendation of what could happen with Murray. He was older, reputedly on big wages and obviously had injury issues, however few would argue that he was one of the most important parts of our promotion team.

To a lesser extent, Murray's game and that extra touch of class parallel what Roberts did.

I think we will miss him sorely. The pros and cons of an ageing lynch pin playing in a league he's slightly too good for are hard to weigh up, but a club who's paid a hard price for recent gambles that went awry are unlikely to be too risk happy.

[Hoop Blah]

Cox is just as likely a candid\ate as Blackman, personally wouldn't play Cox there but there's no reason to assume it's going to be Blackman.

So if Cox plays instead of Murray, who plays instead of Cox? Kanu moving inside and Blackman or Taylor outwide? Guthrie coming into a 5 man midfield leaving Cox, more of a number 10, to lead the line on his own? Tanner or Samuel being thrown in?

I was never assuming Blackman was the only replacement, but he does seem the most likely with all else remaining equal, IMO.

[Sanguine]

Cox is just as likely a candid\ate as Blackman, personally wouldn't play Cox there but there's no reason to assume it's going to be Blackman.

So if Cox plays instead of Murray, who plays instead of Cox? Kanu moving inside and Blackman or Taylor outwide? Guthrie coming into a 5 man midfield leaving Cox, more of a number 10, to lead the line on his own? Tanner or Samuel being thrown in?

I was never assuming Blackman was the only replacement, but he does seem the most likely with all else remaining equal, IMO.

^This. Cox could indeed move into Murray's role, but then how do you replace Cox's industry and stamina and link up play in 'the hole'?

[P!ssed Off]

Cox up front. Guthrie or Karacan in to make up midfield.
We'll be fine.

[floyd__streete]

^ disagree with the above.

As I have just said on the Norwich BFTG thread, Murray leads the line in a way in which Cox is frankly unable to. That is not necessarily to say that Murray must be the man we bring in - reading between the lines it seems unlikely he will be with us as of the weekend - but it needs to be someone of that ilk. With Simon Cox leading the line on his own we might get relegated.

[Hoop Blah]

Cox up front. Guthrie or Karacan in to make up midfield.
We'll be fine.

Fair enough, I'd disagree because we'd

a) be changing a system that is just starting to work for us
b) playing Cox out of position and asking him to do things that aren't natural to him (a big plus of Clarke's tenure so far is that he looks to be playing square pegs in square holes and getting more from players as a result)
c) presumably playing the extra midfielder in a role that is unnatural to them (Williams is the only one we have who looks comfortable/natural bringing the ball forward and even he doesn't really make many runs ahead of the ball), and
d) we'd be relying on one of Karacan and Guthrie, both if you want a bit of competition and cover, making a full and immediate recovery from long periods out and that is again a massive gamble

[Ian Royal]

Yep, if we have a fee agreed then it's just down to him to accept it. Very much the opposite of what he said - "it's down to the clubs". I'm sure he's off after that interview.

Could mean its down to the clubs to offer me something i want.

[Ian Royal]

Cox up front. Guthrie or Karacan in to make up midfield.
We'll be fine.

Apart from losing lots of goals from the side and playing a number 10 in the number 9 role where you can't expect him to perform as well.


I fear the alternatives are HRK, Pog, Blackman or Samuel. None of whom are half the player Murray is. Well Pog is, if he were interested in anything other than his wallet.

[GH Royal]

Cox up front. Guthrie or Karacan in to make up midfield.
We'll be fine.

Apart from losing lots of goals from the side and playing a number 10 in the number 9 role where you can't expect him to perform as well.


I fear the alternatives are HRK, Pog, Blackman or Samuel. None of whom are half the player Murray is. Well Pog is, if he were interested in anything other than his wallet.

Samuel might be worth a go, I'm sure he's around 6ft and is slightly more filled out than Blackman. Also I think I recall him having played the lone striker role for the U21's. In good form at the moment, maybe worth a go at Huddersfield?

[sandman]

The two best players to have played the lone frontman role for Reading, neither of whom were big target men. And yes, Cox is probably not comparable to those two but it's just an example of how you don't need some big 6'2" target man to play the lone striker role.

[ayjaydee]

The two best players to have played the lone frontman role for Reading, neither of whom were big target men. And yes, Cox is probably not comparable to those two but it's just an example of how you don't need some big 6'2" target man to play the lone striker role.

No you don't need a 6' 2" target man but with the other option being pace Cox certainly does not compare with your examples .

[sandman]

The two best players to have played the lone frontman role for Reading, neither of whom were big target men. And yes, Cox is probably not comparable to those two but it's just an example of how you don't need some big 6'2" target man to play the lone striker role.

No you don't need a 6' 2" target man but with the other option being pace Cox certainly does not compare with your examples .

Hence the "Cox is probably not comparable to those two" part, do keep up.

[RoyalBlue]

Cox up front. Guthrie or Karacan in to make up midfield.
We'll be fine.

Apart from losing lots of goals from the side and playing a number 10 in the number 9 role where you can't expect him to perform as well.


I fear the alternatives are HRK, Pog, Blackman or Samuel. None of whom are half the player Murray is. Well Pog is, if he were interested in anything other than his wallet.

Samuel might be worth a go, I'm sure he's around 6ft and is slightly more filled out than Blackman. Also I think I recall him having played the lone striker role for the U21's. In good form at the moment, maybe worth a go at Huddersfield?

Dolan is now assisting Clarke with the first team yet still Samuel doesn't even get to make the bench. To me that would suggest that Dolan himself thinks there is an issue with Samuel's attitude such that he won't recommend his inclusion in the first team squad.

Jason Roberts is both a warning and a recommendation of what could happen with Murray. He was older, reputedly on big wages and obviously had injury issues, however few would argue that he was one of the most important parts of our promotion team.

To a lesser extent, Murray's game and that extra touch of class parallel what Roberts did.

I think we will miss him sorely. The pros and cons of an ageing lynch pin playing in a league he's slightly too good for are hard to weigh up, but a club who's paid a hard price for recent gambles that went awry are unlikely to be too risk happy.

And what are Murray's obvious serious injury issues?

To me it looks like he was someone who suffered a serious knee injury, which received excellent treatment and which he is now clearly fully recovered from.

One thing has become completely clear about the deal we supposedly had with Palace. It is as watertight, reliable and enforceable as the deal that Madejski set up to sell the club to Zingarevich!

[Ian Royal]

The two best players to have played the lone frontman role for Reading, neither of whom were big target men. And yes, Cox is probably not comparable to those two but it's just an example of how you don't need some big 6'2" target man to play the lone striker role.

Long played upfront with Noel Hunt in his successful season.

GH: agree DomSam is worth a try v Huddersfield, but it's a hell of a lot of responsibility for a young player in his first (?) Competitive season to lead the line for half a season in the Championship. I've seen little of him, but I've heard part of his youth success was his comparative size to his peers. He won't have that in senior football