Harper the most wonderful assist man in the world ever!

[Royalee]

Royalee

[RobRoyal]

LOL

[Fat Leather Jacket]

Crabs.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

I posted this before Xmas as part of yet another Harper discussion. Here is the case for the defence m'lud


"I have to smile at all of the Harper debates. I spent 15 years playing CM in non league football and so watch that position with added interest. The one key point would be that you have to watch what the player is doing when he doesn't have the ball to really understand the role. When an attack breaks down your CM players have to be smart enough to immediately drop into positions to delay a counter attack. They also need to be extremely fit to do that over 90 minutes. Delaying an attack doesn't always mean making a tackle because that can lead to even bigger trouble. For example, Iver tried to tackle Phillips in that key CM area on Saturday and missed. The result is lots of players out of position which results in dangerous situations as the opposition breaks on you. The more effective action is to delay the attack and force a sideways / backwards pass which in turn allows the rest of the team to recover their positions.
In addition to this the a CM player will be required to keep possession well and pick the occasional forward run when genuine space opens up. Something that Harper is especially good at as goals v Blackburn, Boro, Liverpoool, Wigan, Man City etc demonstrate. Remember also that making dozens of forward runs in a game will only impair your ability to do the key part of the role which is prevent opposition breaking on you. You have to pick your forward runs in that role.
All in all Haper is extremely fit, reads the game very well, organises those around him, rarely wastes a forward run and keeps possession. He is a good player ! If you still have the Brum game recorded try watching Harper regardless of where the ball is. You'll get a compltely different perspective of his contribution to the team.
Football has become extremely technical nowadays not least because the tackle has almost become extinct. It is all about each player doing a specific job within a specific team framework. Reading are the best in the league at this (see McLeish comments) and Harper is an integral part of that. Some of you should give Mr Coppell a bit more credit rather than see Harper as his pet."

[Royalee]

I understand that sometimes it is better to close a player down rather than dive in, but Harper does neither as when he is 'closing down' he is still miles away from the ball and backs off as soon as the opposition run at him thus rendering the whole process useless. He also doubles up when he doesn't need to - for example there will be a throw-in with no pressure on us in our half and he'll be stood on the defenders' toes, another complete waste of time as if an opponent broke it would already be 4 players on 1 in our favour. Far too often Harper's constant running (and yes he is the fittest player at the club and can run all day, but it doesn't make him any good at football) is misinterpreted as end product.

[handbags_harris]

You sound like Coppell - he waits too long to change things too.

And you sound like a tactical fool. A diamond formation would not work. I don't think a 5 man midfield would necessarily be a bad thing but I think we'd be sacrificing a proven goalscorer (so far) for someone who has flattered to deceive in midfield. I totally agree something should be changed, but it's my belief that the one thing that should not be tinkered with is the formation. 4-4-2 is what we do, we have shown in the past that a change in formation generally backfires. We have players who play in a particular position, playing in a particular role. To be our most effective we have to play 4-4-2. Flat back four with attack minded full-backs, rigid centre midfield pairing, and advanced wingers. A change in personnel would be the way forward, but not a change in formation.

[IMAMATEOFJOVSKY]

The problem with Harper is that he rarely positively influences a game - centre midfield is arguably the pivotal position in the team - and for all the hand waving and gesturing , Harper does a lot more things wrong than he does right.

He doesnt tackle, his passing is crablike, and that piles a whole load of pressure on the other central midfield player, not only to break up play but also to make incisive passes.

He does not command a team and I question whether Coppell giving him the captaincy is to get him to have more of an impact - well if it is , he has failed

Too many people say "but thats not what Harpers game is" - whatever his game is, he pretty lousy in carrying it out. I go to all the home games, and a few away games and whilst not at yesterdays game, the continual absnece of his name on the radio and then when it was mentioed it was "Harper gives away"- "poor pass by Harper" - too much of it and too often

I do not believe that there arent a fair few players who would have more of an impact than Haprer - Elliott of Bristol City, Watson of Palace, Bodde of Swansea

He is the weak link and we are allowed to have our opinions!

[OLLIE KEARNS]

I agree with you in principal HH although I'd tweak things a bit now and again. We've only really come undone big time against 4-5-1 sides that pass the ball well. Saints and Swansea and we got away with one to a degree in Norwich at home. I'd deal with that by asking Noel Hunt to drop into central midfield areas when the opposition had the ball. His task would simply be to stop the deep lying CM opponent acting as a point for his side to pass the ball through.
It would be hard work and would take a bit away from us in terms of the early ball forward but we would only need to do it now and again against the likes of Swansea. It would effectively leave a 2 v 2 match in CM which would allow our two to play a bit higher up the pitch.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

The problem with Harper is that he rarely positively influences a game - centre midfield is arguably the pivotal position in the team - and for all the hand waving and gesturing , Harper does a lot more things wrong than he does right.

He doesnt tackle, his passing is crablike, and that piles a whole load of pressure on the other central midfield player, not only to break up play but also to make incisive passes.

He does not command a team and I question whether Coppell giving him the captaincy is to get him to have more of an impact - well if it is , he has failed

Too many people say "but thats not what Harpers game is" - whatever his game is, he pretty lousy in carrying it out. I go to all the home games, and a few away games and whilst not at yesterdays game, the continual absnece of his name on the radio and then when it was mentioed it was "Harper gives away"- "poor pass by Harper" - too much of it and too often

I do not believe that there arent a fair few players who would have more of an impact than Haprer - Elliott of Bristol City, Watson of Palace, Bodde of Swansea

He is the weak link and we are allowed to have our opinions!

Of course you are. That is one of things that makes football great and without opinions such sites as this need not exist

[winchester_royal]

Following another abject performance, you have to wonder whether Stevie C may bring Marek or Bryn for the Wolves game. I thought it was interesting that Coppell chose to take Harper off rather than Cisse yesterday, normally its the other way round.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Following another abject performance, you have to wonder whether Stevie C may bring Marek or Bryn for the Wolves game. I thought it was interesting that Coppell chose to take Harper off rather than Cisse yesterday, normally its the other way round.

He might well do. Might be famous last words but I think playing Wolves will suit us well. They play 4-4-2, we are better than them in CM regardless of what pair we go with and their back four looked very poor against the early ball forward last night. They haven't won in four and a defeat against us could really put them on the slippery slope !
Be interesting to see if Wolves change their shape against us.

[winchester_royal]

Following another abject performance, you have to wonder whether Stevie C may bring Marek or Bryn for the Wolves game. I thought it was interesting that Coppell chose to take Harper off rather than Cisse yesterday, normally its the other way round.

He might well do. Might be famous last words but I think playing Wolves will suit us well. They play 4-4-2, we are better than them in CM regardless of what pair we go with and their back four looked very poor against the early ball forward last night. They haven't won in four and a defeat against us could really put them on the slippery slope !
Be interesting to see if Wolves change their shape against us.

I doubt they would. Like us they play most of their football down the wings in a rigid 4-4-2. Will make for a good end-to-end game thats for sure. Will all come down to who takes their chances.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Following another abject performance, you have to wonder whether Stevie C may bring Marek or Bryn for the Wolves game. I thought it was interesting that Coppell chose to take Harper off rather than Cisse yesterday, normally its the other way round.

He might well do. Might be famous last words but I think playing Wolves will suit us well. They play 4-4-2, we are better than them in CM regardless of what pair we go with and their back four looked very poor against the early ball forward last night. They haven't won in four and a defeat against us could really put them on the slippery slope !
Be interesting to see if Wolves change their shape against us.

I doubt they would. Like us they play most of their football down the wings in a rigid 4-4-2. Will make for a good end-to-end game thats for sure. Will all come down to who takes their chances.

Agreed. I think the nature of the game may also lead to more free kicks / corners in either final third. Something else I think is in our favour as I think they're also weak in that department. The most crucial aspect for us is who replaces Rosey and how they perform. I can only assume that it will be Kelly.

[Royal With Cheese]

I think the nature of the game may also lead to more free kicks / corners in either final third. Something else I think is in our favour as I think they're also weak in that department. The most crucial aspect for us is who replaces Rosey and how they perform. I can only assume that it will be Kelly.

We've proved this year that at set pieces there are few to better us. A bit of a rest over the weekend will give the squad a bit of time not only to lick their wounds but to get well and truly set for the biggest game of the season so far.

[glass half full]

How refreshing it is to have a free and open discussion and exchange of views on tactics and a positive alternative option.

Thank you, Ollie, for your invaluable insights.

[IMAMATEOFJOVSKY]

Even EP has him having a camel shit performance

James Harper - 4 - Didn’t see enough of ball to create chances and didn't get opportunity to break into box. Lost possession in midfield as Swansea quickly closed him down

[West Stand Man]

You sound like Coppell - he waits too long to change things too.

And you sound like a fool.

No need for any more than that, to be honest.

[loyalroyal4life]

Even EP has him having a camel shit performance

James Harper - 4 - Didn’t see enough of ball to create chances and didn't get opportunity to break into box. Lost possession in midfield as Swansea quickly closed him down

he has been below average all season

[IMAMATEOFJOVSKY]

Even EP has him having a camel shit performance

James Harper - 4 - Didn’t see enough of ball to create chances and didn't get opportunity to break into box. Lost possession in midfield as Swansea quickly closed him down

he has been below average all season

I know! and I get slated by the RTG on here every time I mention it - so i'm going to keep on mentioning it until such time as he starts being effective, and when he does, I'll be first to acknowledge................could be a long wait though

[strap]

Wow. A deflected pass through a tiring, and thoroughly awful, Watford defence.

Nearly as good as Kebe's "assist" in a game this season when the ball bounced off his left shoulder whilst he was looking the other way! Classic! Harper v Kebe?? Mmm, hardly a brain teaser that, is it?!