Squad Watch 2022/23

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Id far rather have the 'could be' U23 players filling up the squad than some of the shite trialists we've got rid of that you thought would be good additions.

They've shown themselves far superior to those trialists afterall.

They'd do no worse and are more experienced players. I've never said don't use any, I said don't use some because they might be good in years to come if they are not ready for this level yet. I'd rather have players with experience and quality at this level, than players who are showing promise but might not be ready yet basically.

'They'd do no worse' is surely an argument in favour of our U23s than those triallists.
No-one is advocating a team of U23s, but I'd much prefer to have players with potential, such as Clarke and Scott, on the bench than players who's best days are likely behind them. If they'd do no worse then surely you give experience to the young players with the higher ceiling?

Should have worded it better to be fair.

My point is, be it just for 12 months, I'd rather have players whose "best days are behind them" rather than players who aren't ready yet, providing those players are of better quality. On the flip side, if Clarke has more quality than a 30+ striker with more experience, of course I'd rather keep Clarke (or if Clarke is showing he is capable at this level).

They should all certainly be given a chance to prove themselves in pre-season though, for sure.

[Nameless]

They'd do no worse and are more experienced players. I've never said don't use any, I said don't use some because they might be good in years to come if they are not ready for this level yet. I'd rather have players with experience and quality at this level, than players who are showing promise but might not be ready yet basically.

But that’s not considering the actual situation.
We’ve got a good set of youngsters who have already got a decent amount of experience elsewhere or have been part of the first team squad for at least a season.
Dorsett, Andresson, Melvin-Lambert have had decent loans, Clarke has half a season worth of first time games etc etc. They are playing for ‘their’ club and know that there is a path to the first team open for them because they have seen lots of players go down it.
Most of the trialists had fairly mediocre histories, their best days well behind them. I’m not convinced by Jahmari Clark yet but I’d rather have him on the bench than Wickham, I’d rather have Dorsett than Janvier and I’d rather have Scott then the Cardiff winger

Your opinion differs to mine then, I'd only really agree with Clarke over Wickham but not the others. I'd like our youngsters to get as many minutes as possible, which they probably won't be doing for us this season and saying Clarke has had half a seasons worth of first team games is stretching it, 164 minutes across 12 games, so essentially he doesn't have 2 games worth of Championship experience yet.

I'd rather our youngsters go out on loan for senior football and wrack up 40 appearances a season if possible in the FL and prove their worth and work their way up that way. As you say, they will know their pathways anyway and they know we are a club who will give youth a chance, but it has to be when ready. Andresson is another I'd rather go and have another season on loan and reassess, Dorsett we could involve, but if not, a season in L1 will do him more harm than good.

I'd rather have experienced players with mediocre history as opposed to inexperienced players with very limited history. Again, that's just me personally, but I don't watch these players everyday so I can't comment on their quality as such. Obviously if Dorsett has shown more ability than Jeanvier for instance, then yes I'd rather have Dorsett, but I don't think that's the case considering he stayed with the U23's and Jeanvier was on trial and left for what seems to be personal reasons.

Not picking on Clarke particularly, but Melvin-Lambert's experience is 0 with ourselves in the Championship and 16 appearances for St Patricks in Ireland, Scott has 16 minutes of Championship experience and nothing else senior wise etc. I don't disagree that they should be given a chance to impress during pre-season where they will be playing football, but I wouldn't put them on the bench if they aren't ready yet, just because they might be ready. I'd rather have Josh Murphy who is a reasonable player with experience at this level, even if just for 12 months, for example.

Apologies for the read btw.

Comes down to I rate our youngsters, you don’t.
There are financial benefits in using the youngsters.
I can’t see any reason why using players just because they were decent 5 years ago and are now scratching around for a club makes sense above using talented youngsters who are already part of the club and already have decent experience (your minutes onnthe pitch is near enough irrelevant - they have been part of match squads for 12-18 months, they are part of the squad)

[YorkshireRoyal99]

But that’s not considering the actual situation.
We’ve got a good set of youngsters who have already got a decent amount of experience elsewhere or have been part of the first team squad for at least a season.
Dorsett, Andresson, Melvin-Lambert have had decent loans, Clarke has half a season worth of first time games etc etc. They are playing for ‘their’ club and know that there is a path to the first team open for them because they have seen lots of players go down it.
Most of the trialists had fairly mediocre histories, their best days well behind them. I’m not convinced by Jahmari Clark yet but I’d rather have him on the bench than Wickham, I’d rather have Dorsett than Janvier and I’d rather have Scott then the Cardiff winger

Your opinion differs to mine then, I'd only really agree with Clarke over Wickham but not the others. I'd like our youngsters to get as many minutes as possible, which they probably won't be doing for us this season and saying Clarke has had half a seasons worth of first team games is stretching it, 164 minutes across 12 games, so essentially he doesn't have 2 games worth of Championship experience yet.

I'd rather our youngsters go out on loan for senior football and wrack up 40 appearances a season if possible in the FL and prove their worth and work their way up that way. As you say, they will know their pathways anyway and they know we are a club who will give youth a chance, but it has to be when ready. Andresson is another I'd rather go and have another season on loan and reassess, Dorsett we could involve, but if not, a season in L1 will do him more harm than good.

I'd rather have experienced players with mediocre history as opposed to inexperienced players with very limited history. Again, that's just me personally, but I don't watch these players everyday so I can't comment on their quality as such. Obviously if Dorsett has shown more ability than Jeanvier for instance, then yes I'd rather have Dorsett, but I don't think that's the case considering he stayed with the U23's and Jeanvier was on trial and left for what seems to be personal reasons.

Not picking on Clarke particularly, but Melvin-Lambert's experience is 0 with ourselves in the Championship and 16 appearances for St Patricks in Ireland, Scott has 16 minutes of Championship experience and nothing else senior wise etc. I don't disagree that they should be given a chance to impress during pre-season where they will be playing football, but I wouldn't put them on the bench if they aren't ready yet, just because they might be ready. I'd rather have Josh Murphy who is a reasonable player with experience at this level, even if just for 12 months, for example.

Apologies for the read btw.

Comes down to I rate our youngsters, you don’t.
There are financial benefits in using the youngsters.
I can’t see any reason why using players just because they were decent 5 years ago and are now scratching around for a club makes sense above using talented youngsters who are already part of the club and already have decent experience (your minutes onnthe pitch is near enough irrelevant - they have been part of match squads for 12-18 months, they are part of the squad)

I do rate our youngsters, it's a good group of young players with potential, just most might not be ready yet. There are financial benefits, true, but the financial benefit of staying in the Championship with a more experienced group of players outways that of being relegated with a bunch of youngsters that aren't good enough yet.

Minutes on the pitch isn't irrelevant as there is far more benefit from playing games than what there is sat there watching from the bench.

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah I'd agree, we can supplement the rest with players coming through the U23's who may be worth keeping around the first team squad and competing for the matchday squad as well, probably the 3 for me so far would be Camara, Clarke and Dorsett out of the lot. Players like Andresson, Melvin-Lambert, Scott and Abrefa aren't too far behind though either.

I don't want our squad to be filled up with U23 players though just to make up numbers, I'd rather just have a couple that are capable of holding their own at this level rather than filling our squad with could be's.

Id far rather have the 'could be' U23 players filling up the squad than some of the shite trialists we've got rid of that you thought would be good additions.

They've shown themselves far superior to those trialists afterall.

They'd do no worse and are more experienced players. I've never said don't use any, I said don't use some because they might be good in years to come if they are not ready for this level yet. I'd rather have players with experience and quality at this level, than players who are showing promise but might not be ready yet basically.

Give me players who may be a bit iffy now, but will be better for us in the future for playing. Over players who with experience who aren’t good enough and probably won't improve or be around for long.

Every. Single. Time.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Id far rather have the 'could be' U23 players filling up the squad than some of the shite trialists we've got rid of that you thought would be good additions.

They've shown themselves far superior to those trialists afterall.

They'd do no worse and are more experienced players. I've never said don't use any, I said don't use some because they might be good in years to come if they are not ready for this level yet. I'd rather have players with experience and quality at this level, than players who are showing promise but might not be ready yet basically.

Give me players who may be a bit iffy now, but will be better for us in the future for playing. Over players who with experience who aren’t good enough and probably won't improve or be around for long.

Every. Single. Time.

And I agree, but that's not what I'm saying.

[Nameless]

Your opinion differs to mine then, I'd only really agree with Clarke over Wickham but not the others. I'd like our youngsters to get as many minutes as possible, which they probably won't be doing for us this season and saying Clarke has had half a seasons worth of first team games is stretching it, 164 minutes across 12 games, so essentially he doesn't have 2 games worth of Championship experience yet.

I'd rather our youngsters go out on loan for senior football and wrack up 40 appearances a season if possible in the FL and prove their worth and work their way up that way. As you say, they will know their pathways anyway and they know we are a club who will give youth a chance, but it has to be when ready. Andresson is another I'd rather go and have another season on loan and reassess, Dorsett we could involve, but if not, a season in L1 will do him more harm than good.

I'd rather have experienced players with mediocre history as opposed to inexperienced players with very limited history. Again, that's just me personally, but I don't watch these players everyday so I can't comment on their quality as such. Obviously if Dorsett has shown more ability than Jeanvier for instance, then yes I'd rather have Dorsett, but I don't think that's the case considering he stayed with the U23's and Jeanvier was on trial and left for what seems to be personal reasons.

Not picking on Clarke particularly, but Melvin-Lambert's experience is 0 with ourselves in the Championship and 16 appearances for St Patricks in Ireland, Scott has 16 minutes of Championship experience and nothing else senior wise etc. I don't disagree that they should be given a chance to impress during pre-season where they will be playing football, but I wouldn't put them on the bench if they aren't ready yet, just because they might be ready. I'd rather have Josh Murphy who is a reasonable player with experience at this level, even if just for 12 months, for example.

Apologies for the read btw.

Comes down to I rate our youngsters, you don’t.
There are financial benefits in using the youngsters.
I can’t see any reason why using players just because they were decent 5 years ago and are now scratching around for a club makes sense above using talented youngsters who are already part of the club and already have decent experience (your minutes onnthe pitch is near enough irrelevant - they have been part of match squads for 12-18 months, they are part of the squad)

I do rate our youngsters, it's a good group of young players with potential, just most might not be ready yet. There are financial benefits, true, but the financial benefit of staying in the Championship with a more experienced group of players outways that of being relegated with a bunch of youngsters that aren't good enough yet.

Minutes on the pitch isn't irrelevant as there is far more benefit from playing games than what there is sat there watching from the bench.

But what if they are ready ?
And how do they get ready if not by being involved in the first team squad ?
I’m not suggesting we start Camara from day 1 or pair Dorsett with Holmes at Blackpool.
There is nothing about the trialists we released which makes me think they would contribute any more than the younger players we already have (and Ince and Bowen obviously agree).
A player who got sent back from his loan last season doesn’t seem a better option than a hugely talented 20 year old desperate to be the next Olise.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Comes down to I rate our youngsters, you don’t.
There are financial benefits in using the youngsters.
I can’t see any reason why using players just because they were decent 5 years ago and are now scratching around for a club makes sense above using talented youngsters who are already part of the club and already have decent experience (your minutes onnthe pitch is near enough irrelevant - they have been part of match squads for 12-18 months, they are part of the squad)

I do rate our youngsters, it's a good group of young players with potential, just most might not be ready yet. There are financial benefits, true, but the financial benefit of staying in the Championship with a more experienced group of players outways that of being relegated with a bunch of youngsters that aren't good enough yet.

Minutes on the pitch isn't irrelevant as there is far more benefit from playing games than what there is sat there watching from the bench.

But what if they are ready ?
And how do they get ready if not by being involved in the first team squad ?
I’m not suggesting we start Camara from day 1 or pair Dorsett with Holmes at Blackpool.
There is nothing about the trialists we released which makes me think they would contribute any more than the younger players we already have (and Ince and Bowen obviously agree).
A player who got sent back from his loan last season doesn’t seem a better option than a hugely talented 20 year old desperate to be the next Olise.

If they are, obviously put them in. I haven't seen enough of them to know if they are, but gauging that we've just signed a 35 year old striker in Long and Dorsett didn't even travel with our first team squad and stayed with the U23's during our training camp at St George's Park, the club may have the opinion that they aren't ready for that much involvement yet. I know you aren't suggesting throwing them in at the deep end, likewise I'm not suggesting exile them altogether, I'm saying they do have to prove they are good enough for our squad and/or this level of football, so far most haven't done that imo.

Taking the situation into account, just because we released trialists doesn't mean they were deemed not good enough. Jeanvier left for personal reasons, we may not have been able to agree deals for others etc. Yes, the likes of Jodi Jones weren't good enough, fair enough, that's the point of a trial though. But to write players off after one game probably isn't the best idea either, but I get the point.

Olise proved capable, that's why he got the opportunities. Clarke has shown glimpses as has Camara, so again, some decent opportunities in pre-season which they deserve to get imo and evaluate come the start of the season. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be part of the matchday squad, but still have to prove that they are at a level where they can compete.

[Nameless]

We signed a 35 year old striker because we needed a striker ! We didn’t sign Long instead of using Clarke, we need more than 2 strikers !
What we don’t need to do is fill up the spaces in the squad with poor quality players when we already have plenty of good young players. It’s just a no brained.
If we were bringing in quality players then that’s different but none of the released trialists would have added anything we can’t get from our young players. And we’d pay more for them into the bargain. And still be paying for the youngsters....

[Pepe the Horseman]

Sam Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal according to J Low. Happy with that, sounds like he's been impressive in pre-season.

[blythspartan]

Sam Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal according to J Low. Happy with that, sounds like he's been impressive in pre-season.

That’s good news. 3 or 4 more signings and we should be pretty much there.

[Snowflake Royal]

They'd do no worse and are more experienced players. I've never said don't use any, I said don't use some because they might be good in years to come if they are not ready for this level yet. I'd rather have players with experience and quality at this level, than players who are showing promise but might not be ready yet basically.

Give me players who may be a bit iffy now, but will be better for us in the future for playing. Over players who with experience who aren’t good enough and probably won't improve or be around for long.

Every. Single. Time.

And I agree, but that's not what I'm saying.

Given you said you'd happily have Jones, Davenport, Ward and Murphy, and you'd prefer them to the Academy players, it pretty much is.

We've also seen that players don't just get the chances if they're good enough. Stacey, Fosu, Cooper, Dickie etc prove that. They've got to get the chances to prove it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Sam Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal according to J Low. Happy with that, sounds like he's been impressive in pre-season.

That’s good news. 3 or 4 more signings and we should be pretty much there.

Yep, he's looked useful.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Sam Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal according to J Low. Happy with that, sounds like he's been impressive in pre-season.

That’s good news. 3 or 4 more signings and we should be pretty much there.

Yep, he's looked useful.

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

[Snowflake Royal]

That’s good news. 3 or 4 more signings and we should be pretty much there.

Yep, he's looked useful.

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

Played CM 1st half vs Benfica.

He basically has to play CB until we get a LB because Dann is a useless crock, Moore is poor a crock and isn't wanted, for some reason we don't want to use Dorsett and McIntyre has to play LB.

Mind you, I thought the new lad Clarke looked very handy at CB vs West Ham 2nd half.

[blythspartan]

Yep, he's looked useful.

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

Played CM 1st half vs Benfica.

He basically has to play CB until we get a LB because Dann is a useless crock, Moore is poor a crock and isn't wanted, for some reason we don't want to use Dorsett and McIntyre has to play LB.

Mind you, I thought the new lad Clarke looked very handy at CB vs West Ham 2nd half.

I haven’t seen the game but my cousin was there on Saturday and him and his mates reckon Clarke looked very accomplished. They feel he looked good enough to be around the first team. I am looking forward to seeing some of these lads break into the first team. I think NH will definitely be bringing these players to Ince’s attention if he feels they’re good enough.

[Zip]

Yep, he's looked useful.

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

Played CM 1st half vs Benfica.

He basically has to play CB until we get a LB because Dann is a useless crock, Moore is poor a crock and isn't wanted, for some reason we don't want to use Dorsett and McIntyre has to play LB.

Mind you, I thought the new lad Clarke looked very handy at CB vs West Ham 2nd half.

I don’t know how old Clarke is but he might just start at left back if we did go down the flat back four route or even as a left sided centre back.
I would like to see TMac given minutes against Brighton at CDM.

[Snowflake Royal]

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

Played CM 1st half vs Benfica.

He basically has to play CB until we get a LB because Dann is a useless crock, Moore is poor a crock and isn't wanted, for some reason we don't want to use Dorsett and McIntyre has to play LB.

Mind you, I thought the new lad Clarke looked very handy at CB vs West Ham 2nd half.

I haven’t seen the game but my cousin was there on Saturday and him and his mates reckon Clarke looked very accomplished. They feel he looked good enough to be around the first team. I am looking forward to seeing some of these lads break into the first team. I think NH will definitely be bringing these players to Ince’s attention if he feels they’re good enough.

Had a bit of a wobble dealing with one ball in behind him. Striker got the better of him and got a shot off, but Lumley was out ok and he fluffed it.

Then bossed two balls in behind chasing to the byline, shepparding the ball out and easily out strengthing the Wham player.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Good bit of business if Hutchinson comes in. A senior LB before the season starts if obviously the big priority. After that, we can probably manage for the first month and look to bulk out with 2 - 3 more additions in the transfer deadline madness where there can be some cheap, decent deals available.

[Snowflake Royal]

Has he only been playing CB? Or CM too?

Played CM 1st half vs Benfica.

He basically has to play CB until we get a LB because Dann is a useless crock, Moore is poor a crock and isn't wanted, for some reason we don't want to use Dorsett and McIntyre has to play LB.

Mind you, I thought the new lad Clarke looked very handy at CB vs West Ham 2nd half.

I don’t know how old Clarke is but he might just start at left back if we did go down the flat back four route or even as a left sided centre back.
I would like to see TMac given minutes against Brighton at CDM.

Nah, we've now got Fornah, Hendricks, Hutchinson and Tetek who can all play DM. Plus Leavy looked handy.

I want to see McIntyre in his proper position at CB with a proper LB in.

[Hound]

Good news on Hutch. Sensible signing, hopefully can stay fit

Clarke is 18 I think. Sounds like one to keep an eye on and hoepfully good enough for back up LB. Good piece of scouting if he works out