Maccy D ?

[rhroyal]

I love people stating "selling off silver and replacing it with copper" etc. How does this apply to Mills and Gorkss? As recently as April/May some were still criticising Mills, whilst Gorkss played 42 games in a promoted team.

There's really not much between them. Mills can be imperious at best but can also lose concentration and utterly lose his head. Gorkss has a reputation for more calm, consistency and composure, although perhaps he can't match Mills' best to go with that (He'd be in the Premiership if he could). I'm personally happier with a solid dependable Championship defender, as opposed to one who can cost us any match at random. Plus we've made a big profit.

I understand the sentiment more with Long. But we couldn't keep him when a Premiership club came knocking, with 1 year left on his contract. And who else should we have replaced him with, other than Le Fondre? At this level, Billy Sharp would cost a couple of million from Donny. very injury prone, something we can't afford with Hunt already on our books up front. Waghorn's record isn't all that. With Le Fondre we're relying upon him stepping up 2 divisions; with Waghorn we'd have been relying on him finding a goalscoring record previously absent at this level, only for a much higher fee. I could rattle through the alternatives. We've done well with Le Fondre, and we've brought in J.Mills with the money too.

From what I've heard (I haven't been to any games yet this season, fortunately), we're losing due to a lack of creativity from our midfield and people exploiting our full backs. Doesn't really sound like the fault of losing Mills and Long; sounds like wingers and full backs out of form. Sounds like McD possibly showing too much loyalty to a couple of players, and not giving Cummings a chance.

A side note, these opinions are partly based upon "Back from the game threads". Getting the opinion of people who have been to the game is valuable, so please only comment on those threads if you have been to the game (or perhaps to ask a question). DO NOT, however, turn them into mindless debates about money, ambition and player sales which we see everywhere else. The current Hull thread is terrible; about 10% of posters appear to have actually gone to the game.

[Ian Royal]

I love the way people talk about us selling off the silverware every season, when in fact we sell a couple of the major assets and keep as many.

Whatever some people may want to believe, Long, Khizanishvili and Mills were not our only good players. In fact only one of them got in the top three players and neither of the other two would have made the top 5. Leigertwood, Karacan, Kebe, Harte, McAnuff & Hunt all played major roles as well. Of them only Harte is getting to the end of his playing life.

Frankly if the players can't cope with the idea of losing Long & Mills, then that's their problem which they need to get on top of. Not Madejski's and only McDermott's in that he needs to give them a kicking. The team knows how football works, none of this should have come as a surprise, except perhaps Mills taking a semi-sideways step for the cash.

[readingbedding]

This place is full of people who have an opinion about a specific match, but never went themselves...

Hmmm, ignore.

Much prefer a viewpoint of someone who went than who didn't.

Friend said that it was a tight match and the goal was a fluke and we were a bit unlucky.
I'll take that.

[manny96]

So, Long and Mills? But we didn't get promotion last year, what guarantees this year? .

Nothing "guarantees" anything. That seems to be the standard argument against any kind of challenge to the club's actions. Keeping players doesn't guarantee promotions, buying players doesn't guarentee promotion, hell, selling players doesn't guarantee relegation. However, actions do have consequences that impact the probability of specific outcomes. If we are saying that the board should only back the players if they can "guarentee" promotion then we all might as well give up and go home. Sometimes you have to take a chance, a venture, a risk in order to achieve your goals. A bit of vision and ambition is all anyone is asking for.

Agreed, it doesn't guarantee anything. Yet now we have made a calculated investment, without holding any players back from fulfilling their own 'ambition'. Risk-taking is necessary, without a doubt, but I'm still not quite sure what more risks would be so worthwhile, given the information available we have now.

On another note, I've had enough of the 'where's your business model now'? school of thought. Reading FC is not a well-run business, it is a financially well-run football club. Well-run businesses don't have to sell off their best assets but, in our case, a well-run football club does. A deficit is a consequence of the fact that football clubs are not profit-making entities, especially with the perverse and contradictory logics of supporter expectation and capital.

[Handsome Man]

I don't think McDermott has had much room for manourvre over the transfers - the wage budget must be restrictive and a lot is left to Hammond - but now he has a really difficult management job to do. The team doesn't pick itself anymore and there are only five subs. He's got to get most of the major decisions right:
Is there a forward who desreves the same faith he showed Shane Long?
When does Cummings take over from Griffin?
Can we get the most out of Harte without his defensive frailties being exposed?
Does McCarthy take the place of a fit Federici?
Is McAnuff a captain?

[loyalroyal4life]

You cannot question Mcdermott's record overall. He will be hurting more than any fan with 4 losses on the spin and wanting to put it right asap.

I believe that he will and can.

Agree with maybe the loyalty factor to some of the older players. Harte and Feds need to be dropped

IMO you cannot put a player in a team just for their deadball potential especially when their position is defence!

I think Harte's corners have been shit so far this season anyway

[Friday's Legacy]

I'm no lover of SJM but we have just made three new signings and at a significant cost. One more may still yet come in. McDermott has done very well to date and this is his first bad run. It was bound to happen at some stage. We lost Mills but have bought in Gorkss so I don't see us as weaker there. Can Le Fondre fill Shane Long's boots? If he can we will be in the hunt for promotion.
Its still August and early days. If we only pick up 4 points from our next 5 games then I will be worried...but I think we will do a lot better than that.

agree with this. it's far too early to start hitting out at the manager, but there is no doubt he is too loyal to some players and he needs to learn from steve coppell's mistakes and soon. harte needs to be dropped, it's clear to everyone. he is far too slow and is being targeted every week. we would be no worse off for playing mills and giving him the time to establish himself. same goes for griffin who isn't the same player that arrived here on loan. he was a disaster at the end of last season and has continued to be so this season. cummings deserves the shirt and mcdermott needs to man up and upset a few people. federici is another that losthis place through injury and came back in unfairly when mccarthy was playing well. federici appears too safe in goal, and his performances warrant some questions.

no player should be assured of a start. when they feel they are that's when complacency sets in.

[Ian Royal]

It's the age old problem though, go with tried and tested experience and what you know can do well, but isn't performing now, or take a gamble on someone fresh who you don't know as well and may take a while to get up to speed.

McDermott's tried sticking with players before and it's worked spectacularly, so he's not going to drop people quickly. There's also the consideration that if you do drop someone quick, and their replacement does no better, or even worse, what do you do then?

I can see Harte getting another couple games after the break to show he's got himself together, unfortunately. Griff quite probably a bit longer and Federici at least another 5 games. And we can't say for certain it's the wrong decision until the change gets made and we see how it works.

[rhroyal]

McD did drop Harte for a few games last season until Cummings picked up an injury. He left Fedders out of the team a long time for McCarthy, because McCarthy didn't deserve to be dropped. He needs to show those sorts of balls again. Cummings in for Griffin is a no brainer in my view. Fantastic improvement from one of them, a definite decline from the other. More pace at the back and more support for Kebe going forward.

Mills is less proven at this club and Harte's set pieces are not aspects of the game you expect to see decline with old age. Not quite so clear cut.

[leww_rfc]

to even question McDermott's ability after 5 games into a new season is ludicrous.

[Turns8]

Reading 'fans' in ridiculously high expectations shocker!!!

[RoyalBlue]

So, Long and Mills? But we didn't get promotion last year, what guarantees this year? .

Nothing "guarantees" anything. That seems to be the standard argument against any kind of challenge to the club's actions. Keeping players doesn't guarantee promotions, buying players doesn't guarentee promotion, hell, selling players doesn't guarantee relegation. However, actions do have consequences that impact the probability of specific outcomes. If we are saying that the board should only back the players if they can "guarentee" promotion then we all might as well give up and go home. Sometimes you have to take a chance, a venture, a risk in order to achieve your goals. A bit of vision and ambition is all anyone is asking for.

Agreed, it doesn't guarantee anything. Yet now we have made a calculated investment, without holding any players back from fulfilling their own 'ambition'. Risk-taking is necessary, without a doubt, but I'm still not quite sure what more risks would be so worthwhile, given the information available we have now.

On another note, I've had enough of the 'where's your business model now'? school of thought. Reading FC is not a well-run business, it is a financially well-run football club. Well-run businesses don't have to sell off their best assets but, in our case, a well-run football club does. A deficit is a consequence of the fact that football clubs are not profit-making entities, especially with the perverse and contradictory logics of supporter expectation and capital.

That latter point may well be correct. However, it was Madejski, his sidekicks and disciples who kept telling us that RFC is a business and had to be run like any other business (that was a line frequently used to justify some of the less palatable decisions/actions). It was also them who kept assuring us that it was a very well run business.

[manny96]

That latter point may well be correct. However, it was Madejski, his sidekicks and disciples who kept telling us that RFC is a business and had to be run like any other business (that was a line frequently used to justify some of the less palatable decisions/actions). It was also them who kept assuring us that it was a very well run business.

This is true but he is known as a 'businessman' and that is, in theory, the source of his authority. I'd say 'fiscally prudent' is probably a better description. I'm also not one who would defend Madejski to death. I don't think the way he presents himself to fans is necessarily always good nor has he encouraged fan participation and democracy in any meaningful way. He's a massive Tory for starters and that models part of the way he sees himself and the club in the community (and means I should hate him). It's a kind of paternalism that keeps him there, as well as the status, not the money - rightly or wrongly. It's a paternalism which in theory I detest but in reality is probably the best way to run the club in the current climate - as a kind of benign dictator.

[SpaceCruiser]

are people seriously questioning McDermott

Can't believe people are doing this of a man who is the only Reading manager to take us to two, yes, TWO, FA Cup quarter-finals.

[Plymouth_Royal]

Maccy D needs to stop the team playing hoofball. This is reminding me of Coppell too much. We got found out second season in the prem as we just hoofed it with no plan b. This season we're just doing the same. Hoofing it get it to a winger and then getting them to do something with the ball. He needs to change the way we play slightly and then I'm sure we will see a turn around in results.

[Wycombe Royal]

I do question though his signings, majority over 30

I'm struggling with this "majority over 30" comment.........

[Archie's penalty]

Gorkks, MIlls, ALfie are all 35.

[Pseud O'Nym]

Gorkks, MIlls, ALfie are all 35.

percent carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen. True.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Maccy D needs to stop the team playing hoofball. This is reminding me of Coppell too much. We got found out second season in the prem as we just hoofed it with no plan b. This season we're just doing the same. Hoofing it get it to a winger and then getting them to do something with the ball. He needs to change the way we play slightly and then I'm sure we will see a turn around in results.

We hardly got "found out" in the premier. We played old fashioned 4-4-2, so nothing we did was exactly a secret. We just had no decent right-winger most of the season, and a left-winger who looked half-hearted for half of the season.

This season we just haven't got into our stride...yet. I'm sure we will.

It's the modern way though. Take a short poor run of form and turn it into a crisis.

[SpaceCruiser]

We hardly got "found out" in the premier. We played old fashioned 4-4-2

That's the second post you've just done tonight (first was on the Smee v Madejski thread) that I've liked.

Coppell liked to utilise the wings with pace. I get tired of the "hoofball" description, how else do you get the balls to the wings quickly and cross into the danger space to create panic in the opposition? Fast, hard and quick tempo is the way to go, not the boring Arsenal way of slow build up and walk the ball into the net that everybody seems to want us to play!