McDermott via TalkSport

[Cypry]

Neutral friend or not though the numerical facts speak for themselves and are largely correct.

And as I understand it the club made a PROFIT from the 2 years in the prem and has since had numerous player sales, 2 FA Cup quarter final runs and 2 play-offs inc one final.

We have been back in the championship long enough to be able to budget properly. The club is NOT well run.

FFS how many more times? Yes we might have been profitable year on year for two years in the Premiership, but in the main this was negated by the LOSSES made in the previous years since the holding company etc was set up in 1999.
When a company makes a loss in the annual accounts it doesn't just disappear into the ether - at some point it has to be paid back.
Some people's grasp of basic accounting beggars belief....

[friday fan]

I did post some feedback on this article on talk sport but it wasn't published. The gist of my reply/comment on talk sport was that RFC fans don't see our best players being sold to PL clubs as a success, perhaps ii is a necessary evil each season as we have found out but if BM thinks that fans will see it as a success then that is wrong (although he made no mention of fans views). On another note if we have to sell each year then we are not well run. Indeed if the club cannot afford championship wages without selling then we are in the wrong division economically. Everyone knows (that includes pro JM and non JM supporters and there is a division here) that JM will not pump his own cash in, rather he wants the club to survive in the way a business would hence the yearly asset sale. Fans get sick off seein the best players sold off, we go each game to watch good football and for sucess - don't we? enough said on this subject as things won't change until the club is sold, this is why BM got the managers job as he was prepared to work with his hand tied behind his back, perhaps its the reason sir steve left.

[ZacNaloen]

Indeed if the club cannot afford championship wages without selling then we are in the wrong division economically.

The fact we are punching above our weight economically shows we are well run though surely?

[Ian Royal]

It is a sign of success that we are developing and / or signing players capable of playing at Premier League level. If we consistently have players that get picked up by Premier League teams, then that's a sign we have good players. If we have good players, we're unlikely to get relegated and more likely to get promoted.

Yes it would be nice to keep Premier League quality players, but lets have a little bit of realism. No Championship club, on a sane budget anyway, can manage that for more than a season or two at most.

[FiNeRaIn]

That unfortunately is a sign of modern day football and why its worth following another sport. 15 years ago or so there was player loyalty even at the lower levels because the prem didn't have the ridiculous cringe worthy wages it does now. It was also much less of a marketable product which everyone wants a slice of.
I can't blame reading for selling players that want to leave. Sig however is a different story, he didn't want to go but the club in no uncertain terms made it clear we need the money from his sale and sent him to hoffenheim - sure he could have rejected their offer but when the top people in the club want you gone...you go, that sale will annoy me forever because he had the quality to be an absolute legend and would have stayed for at least another season. None of the other sellings like doyle, long, mills, kitson, hunt,etc annoyed me...that one did.
There really isn't much hope for the future in all honesty unless we get a lucky promotion with an average squad through the play-offs.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I couldn't be arsed to articulate myself properly because there are so many tossers on here you could breed a new generation of spastics.

You'd be well at home then.

Hooray the academy's a success, but so is Crewe' - the real success is in the results we get...at least it should be for the fans.

It got Crewe 15 years of punching above their weight - 8 of those well above their weight at championship level. It takes the same kind of idiot who regards eventually slipping back to the 4th tier as an indication of their failure as one who regards us slipping back to being average for this division as being failure for us.

'The fact that some will eventually move on to higher things isn't ideal'? You mean all of them worth any salt? Are you happy that Madejski rakes it in off the back of the academy year in year out?

Well if you imagining Madejski is stealing money from the club pisses you off, then I'm happy about it, yes.

What will happen when we inevitably run out of players on the production line as it will happen - even the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool don't produce players EVERY year?

If we have no players to sell then we'll have to lower the wage bill, or cut back in other areas. Until then it'll allow us to field a team we couldn't afford to field if we weren't selling.

I'm done wailing, I just don't go anymore because I don't want to line the chairman's pockets

you don't want to go any more because you are a fair-weather supporter who is only interested when we are winning.

, it just fills me with a sense of disgust that a club and chairman I once had so much time for have turned into such a sham. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought that running a club as a business included looking at the long term and not making a quick buck every year.

...and this "long term" business plan you envisage....does it involve losing millions every year and pretending it doesn't matter?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Indeed if the club cannot afford championship wages without selling then we are in the wrong division economically.

The fact we are punching above our weight economically shows we are well run though surely?

It also ignores the fact that the is true for around 23 other clubs in the division.

[Wycombe Royal]

On another note if we have to sell each year then we are not well run.

I don't see it that way at all. We basically run the club with a better squad than we can really afford but it means we give ourselves a better chance of league success. We also believe in our ability to improve the players we bring in so that we can sell them on to make up the revenue shortfall. It is done in a no-risky way and one that allows us to "punch above our weight".

[Avon Royal]

It is a sign of success that we are developing players capable of playing at Premier League level.

That is a sign of success for a club's development programme, not for the club as a whole. The ONLY measures of a club's success are the league in which it plays and the position it finishes.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It is a sign of success that we are developing players capable of playing at Premier League level.

That is a sign of success for a club's development programme, not for the club as a whole. The ONLY measures of a club's success are the league in which it plays and the position it finishes.

That's true, but it also makes the wholly unlikely assumption the McDermott was saying that being able to sell players brought through the academy is how the club's "success" should be measured.

Read it as being a success for the club, rather than just being a measure of success, and there's rather less to get annoyed about. The alternative is to believe that McDermott doesn't regard results as important, just as long as players can be developed and sold.

[Ian Royal]

It is a sign of success that we are developing players capable of playing at Premier League level.

That is a sign of success for a club's development programme, not for the club as a whole. The ONLY measures of a club's success are the league in which it plays and the position it finishes.

It's a good sign for the club's overall success. We're less likely to finish high up if we don't have players who are going to be capable of making the step up. The development programme is part of what has made us successful over the last 10+ years.

Given our last three finishes were 4th, 9th & 5th that's also a sign of success.

[FiNeRaIn]

It's a good sign for the club's overall success. We're less likely to finish high up if we don't have players who are going to be capable of making the step up. The development programme is part of what has made us successful over the last 10+ years.

Given our last three finishes were 4th, 9th & 5th that's also a sign of success.

You are determined not to be proved wrong at any cost, you'll stop at nothing. A clubs success is judged on the pitch only as that is where the sport is played. How they get to that point is totally irrelevant and always has been. Football is about where you finish not how you got there, which is why all you RTG's are first to claim " a wins a win...stop moaning" when people mention the performance was poor.

[brendywendy]

we go each game to watch good football and for sucess - don't we?

LOL! that aint what first attracted me to RFC. no sir

[brendywendy]

You are determined not to be proved wrong at any cost, you'll stop at nothing. A clubs success is judged on the pitch only as that is where the sport is played. How they get to that point is totally irrelevant and always has been. Football is about where you finish not how you got there, which is why all you RTG's are first to claim " a wins a win...stop moaning" when people mention the performance was poor.

doesnt establishing ourselves in the 2nd tier( when we are traditionally 3rd/4th,) consistently making/pushing for the playoffs, and having two years in the top flight for the first time ever, at the same time as making consistent profits for the first time ever, and devloping a decent academy for the first time ever, pretty much proves we are well run, by that very measure.

[FiNeRaIn]

You are determined not to be proved wrong at any cost, you'll stop at nothing. A clubs success is judged on the pitch only as that is where the sport is played. How they get to that point is totally irrelevant and always has been. Football is about where you finish not how you got there, which is why all you RTG's are first to claim " a wins a win...stop moaning" when people mention the performance was poor.

doesnt establishing ourselves in the 2nd tier( when we are traditionally 3rd/4th,) consistently making/pushing for the playoffs, and having two years in the top flight for the first time ever, at the same time as making consistent profits for the first time ever, and devloping a decent academy for the first time ever, pretty much proves we are well run, by that very measure.

I think you are confused thats not the argument here, if we did that by 11 loan players each season or 11 youth products it would be equally as successful as we are being judged on the pitch, not how we get there.

[brendywendy]

so we are succesful then.


and i think, its too black and white, that is the main measure. but profit, academy success, profile, are all other valid measures

[Ian Royal]

It's a good sign for the club's overall success. We're less likely to finish high up if we don't have players who are going to be capable of making the step up. The development programme is part of what has made us successful over the last 10+ years.

Given our last three finishes were 4th, 9th & 5th that's also a sign of success.

You are determined not to be proved wrong at any cost, you'll stop at nothing. A clubs success is judged on the pitch only as that is where the sport is played. How they get to that point is totally irrelevant and always has been. Football is about where you finish not how you got there, which is why all you RTG's are first to claim " a wins a win...stop moaning" when people mention the performance was poor.

Actually my complaint is normally to get a sense of perspective. And you are showing yourself to be incapable of understanding about indicators of success. Success in the league table does not occur independent of the talent at our disposal. Or of our finances. And it's not about success in just one season, it's an ever evolving series of successes or failures.