Rival Watch

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South Coast Royal
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Re: Rival Watch

by South Coast Royal » 03 Feb 2022 16:29

Sutekh So what exactly do administrators do? I would have said that when they go into a business they look at the outgoings and start immediately rationalising processes and making any cuts that they can and sell any available assets - which, to my mind, would include putting an entire playing squad up for sale and inviting any reasonable offers. The money saved and brought into the club is then used put towards settling the outstanding debts (do football creditors still take precedent?).

Or is football some weird exception to what you’d think is logical?


I suppose there is a genuine argument that if the assets are sold (players) it could well affect attendances which in turn reduces revenue.
One really bad thing about administration is the impact it has on unpaid suppliers and the small businesses that are owed money by the club including printers, cleaning services etc.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 03 Feb 2022 16:53

Unless something has changed, don’t ‘football’ creditors rank higher than general creditors.
If that’s the case then keeping the club operational and with a chance of a sale is the creditors best chance of any return. Otherwise, the players and coaching staff (and potentially Arsenal) get what they want and everyone else can sing …

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Re: Rival Watch

by Who Moved The Goalposts? » 03 Feb 2022 17:22

Franchise FC Unless something has changed, don’t ‘football’ creditors rank higher than general creditors.
If that’s the case then keeping the club operational and with a chance of a sale is the creditors best chance of any return. Otherwise, the players and coaching staff (and potentially Arsenal) get what they want and everyone else can sing …


Yep football creditors are still classed as preferred creditors, which is a bit of a joke when they still haven't paid for Bielek. I think the one major change now is that HMRC has an equal status whereas previously they had the same status as a football club's bottle washer.
As you say, it's the businesses that can least afford to walk away with nothing that will be hit the hardest - remember, when Portsmouth had their troubles, they didn't pay St John Ambulance and even kept the money from charity buckets passed around the crowd. It's nothing short of criminal that a footballer on £20k a week is guaranteed to get his money while the program printers could get sod all. Like everything else in this world, those with money make the rules and feather their own nest; screw the rest.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Feb 2022 17:29

Zip No sympathy if Derby get liquidated. They could have sold key players/big earners in January and chose not to. It’s their problem.

If they'd settled with Wycombe and Mbro pre Admin could they have just given pennies to pounds too?

Could have been an option.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Zip » 03 Feb 2022 17:35

Snowflake Royal
Zip No sympathy if Derby get liquidated. They could have sold key players/big earners in January and chose not to. It’s their problem.

If they'd settled with Wycombe and Mbro pre Admin could they have just given pennies to pounds too?

Could have been an option.


They chose to ignore them and Wycombe had a fully justified claim.


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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 03 Feb 2022 19:20

https://www.efl.com/news/2022/february/ ... ty-update/

The EFL Board met today and received an update in respect of Derby County FC.

Over the last few weeks, the EFL has engaged proactively with the Club’s Administrators and other key stakeholders including the local authority, MPs and the Rams Trust as we seek to assist the Club in its efforts to exit from administration in accordance with the requirements of the League’s Insolvency Policy.

The EFL’s Insolvency Policy is designed to offer guidance to Clubs on how the board might seek to deal with any Club in administration. That policy, which has been accepted by all 72 Clubs, describes how the Members agreed ‘that the starting point is that no Club should gain (or seek to gain) any advantage within the context of professional football over other Clubs by not paying all its creditors in full at all times.’

In this case, Derby County is seeking to use insolvency legislation to avoid having to defend the claims of Middlesbrough FC (which commenced initially in January 2021) and Wycombe Wanderers FC. Derby County considers those claims should not be treated as football related debts and that it would be wrong for the EFL to require the Club to have to continue to defend the claims as a condition of continuing membership in circumstances where they have been compromised by way of a restructuring plan. The EFL does not agree with that analysis.

At the request of the Administrators, and in line with commitments given at last week’s meeting with local politicians, the EFL has provided a further clear statement to Quantuma of its position on the application of the Insolvency Policy, so as to enable them to apply to the High Court or engage in Arbitration to have that issue determined. It is now for the Administrators to determine how they wish to move this matter forward and we remain willing to expedite any process, as necessary.

The fact remains that the Club is suffering from critical legacy debt issues that reach into tens of millions, all of which need to be resolved if a solution is to be found. That also includes monies owed to HMRC and the loans from MSD secured against Club assets and the Stadium.

The EFL has previously requested mediation between the two Clubs and the Administrators and is today inviting all relevant and associated parties involved to enter formal collaborative negotiations to actively seek out the compromises and solutions required to ensure that Derby County has a long-term future.

For the avoidance of any doubt the EFL is requesting the attendance of Administrators and the following stakeholders to participate: the current highest bidder(s), Middlesbrough FC, Wycombe Wanderers FC, Mel Morris, MSD Partners and HMRC.

The EFL will endeavour to provide updates on any progress achieved as a result of this request and any subsequent discussions in due course, whilst also continuing to maintain our commitment to transparency in our dealings with the politicians and local authority officials that make up ‘Team Derby’ alongside direct engagement with Derby County Supporters’ groups and the FSA.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 03 Feb 2022 19:47

I can see what the administrators are trying to do, but I’m delighted the EFL are not buying it.

I hope Boro and particularly Wycombe don’t budge.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Zip » 03 Feb 2022 19:53

Franchise FC I can see what the administrators are trying to do, but I’m delighted the EFL are not buying it.

I hope Boro and particularly Wycombe don’t budge.



Wycombe have a very strong claim. Derby should have had points deducted last season. I agree and hope the creditors stick to their guns.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 03 Feb 2022 19:55

Zip
Franchise FC I can see what the administrators are trying to do, but I’m delighted the EFL are not buying it.

I hope Boro and particularly Wycombe don’t budge.



Wycombe have a very strong claim. Derby should have had points deducted last season. I agree and hope the creditors stick to their guns.

Maybe the EFL could deduct points fromDerby this season, in addition to those already, and donate them to Wycombe.

Let’s say … 20 ?
Would save Derby the cash so the creditors should be happy


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tidus_mi2
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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 03 Feb 2022 19:58

Franchise FC
Zip
Franchise FC I can see what the administrators are trying to do, but I’m delighted the EFL are not buying it.

I hope Boro and particularly Wycombe don’t budge.



Wycombe have a very strong claim. Derby should have had points deducted last season. I agree and hope the creditors stick to their guns.

Maybe the EFL could deduct points fromDerby this season, in addition to those already, and donate them to Wycombe.

Let’s say … 20 ?
Would save Derby the cash so the creditors should be happy

Would certainly cause more trouble from the League One promotion challengers.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 03 Feb 2022 20:01

tidus_mi2
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Zip

Wycombe have a very strong claim. Derby should have had points deducted last season. I agree and hope the creditors stick to their guns.

Maybe the EFL could deduct points fromDerby this season, in addition to those already, and donate them to Wycombe.

Let’s say … 20 ?
Would save Derby the cash so the creditors should be happy

Would certainly cause more trouble from the League One promotion challengers.

Call it a parachute payment

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Re: Rival Watch

by SouthDownsRoyal » 03 Feb 2022 20:31

Stranded
Snowflake Royal
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I know. I know.

You're backsliding


Sarcasm never really works on forums.

Just takes one result to get out of a tailspin and we now have a run of much more winnable games having played a lot of in form sides near the top of the table during Jan when we were arguably at the weakest we've been all season.

With returning players (be interesting to see who else plays at the weekend v Arsenal) and some distractions out of the way, the upcoming games could well see us pick up a few points and open up a gap. The hardest part will be getting that first win though - it has to come next week.


Ah, I get you, you’re joking!

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 04 Feb 2022 09:04

I think the only way Derby get out of this is finding a buyer who is willing to take on the clubs debts and pay off compensation to Wycombe and Middlesbrough, believed to be around £7m, as well as going down to League One. If they were to find a buyer now and they stayed up without paying off their debts to the creditors, then the team that went down in their place (likely us) would be putting a case forward similar to Middlesbrough and Wycombe.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Franchise FC » 04 Feb 2022 10:05

YorkshireRoyal99 I think the only way Derby get out of this is finding a buyer who is willing to take on the clubs debts and pay off compensation to Wycombe and Middlesbrough, believed to be around £7m, as well as going down to League One. If they were to find a buyer now and they stayed up without paying off their debts to the creditors, then the team that went down in their place (likely us) would be putting a case forward similar to Middlesbrough and Wycombe.

Why would we have a case ?
They’ve had their penalty applied. What else can we claim ?

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Re: Rival Watch

by Who Moved The Goalposts? » 04 Feb 2022 10:19

YorkshireRoyal99 I think the only way Derby get out of this is finding a buyer who is willing to take on the clubs debts and pay off compensation to Wycombe and Middlesbrough, believed to be around £7m, as well as going down to League One. If they were to find a buyer now and they stayed up without paying off their debts to the creditors, then the team that went down in their place (likely us) would be putting a case forward similar to Middlesbrough and Wycombe.


Tbh, I don 't really care what happens as long as creditors get what they are owed and that, as tax payers, we are not mugged off. Sunak may not be bothered about chasing the £4.6bn fraudulently claimed in Covid BounceBack loans, but I really hope HMRC push back on this one and don't end up accepting 2p in the £ like they did with Pompey (which in that particular case, they still couldn't deliver and ended up in admin again).

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 04 Feb 2022 11:10

Franchise FC
YorkshireRoyal99 I think the only way Derby get out of this is finding a buyer who is willing to take on the clubs debts and pay off compensation to Wycombe and Middlesbrough, believed to be around £7m, as well as going down to League One. If they were to find a buyer now and they stayed up without paying off their debts to the creditors, then the team that went down in their place (likely us) would be putting a case forward similar to Middlesbrough and Wycombe.

Why would we have a case ?
They’ve had their penalty applied. What else can we claim ?


If they don't pay back what is credited to them as well as fielding players they have overdue payments for (Bielik from Arsenal for example), our claim would be they've essentially cheated their way through the season and stayed up at our expense. Therefore we'd be claiming for lost revenue, similar to Wycombe.

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Re: Rival Watch

by paultheroyal » 04 Feb 2022 11:17

Derby expunged, Northern Premier League will suit them and whilst that happens take the 3 points off Peterborough and Barnsley.

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Re: Rival Watch

by SpaghettiHoop » 04 Feb 2022 13:52

YorkshireRoyal99
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YorkshireRoyal99 I think the only way Derby get out of this is finding a buyer who is willing to take on the clubs debts and pay off compensation to Wycombe and Middlesbrough, believed to be around £7m, as well as going down to League One. If they were to find a buyer now and they stayed up without paying off their debts to the creditors, then the team that went down in their place (likely us) would be putting a case forward similar to Middlesbrough and Wycombe.

Why would we have a case ?
They’ve had their penalty applied. What else can we claim ?


If they don't pay back what is credited to them as well as fielding players they have overdue payments for (Bielik from Arsenal for example), our claim would be they've essentially cheated their way through the season and stayed up at our expense. Therefore we'd be claiming for lost revenue, similar to Wycombe.


Surely if there are amounts overdue for transfers, the player involved should not be able to play until the amount is paid.

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Re: Rival Watch

by bcubed » 04 Feb 2022 14:16

This doesn’t help -

The Government has urged for “pragmatism from all parties” in the on-going battle to save Derby County and, once again, acknowledged the need for an independent regulator to prevent such collapses happening in future.

The statement by Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay, on behalf of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, followed a written question by Derby County supporter Lord Pendry.

The Government responded: "The Government has urged pragmatism from all parties to find a solution for the benefit of fans, staff, and the community that the club serves.

"The EFL must preserve the integrity of the league on behalf of all member clubs, but all parties want to see one of the founding members of the Football League continue this season and beyond under appropriate ownership."

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 04 Feb 2022 14:19

I do think the Bielik case is an interesting one. I reckon Arsenal if they so wanted could probably prevent him playing. But its probably not really in their interest

did stick in the throat a bit when the media love in was in full effect after he got them the point the other day - a player by all rights isn't theirs and who was the very epitome of their overspending

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