Rival Watch

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Lower West
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Re: Rival Watch

by Lower West » 08 Mar 2020 15:18

Snowflake Royal I prefer my what ifs in the form of "what if Gomes hadn't been the hopeless incompetent in charge at the start of the season". What if we'd thanked him for keeping us up, parted ways and appointed Bowen in June?


Or had stuck with Clement. After all Bowen is learning on the job.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Mar 2020 15:34

Lower West
Snowflake Royal I prefer my what ifs in the form of "what if Gomes hadn't been the hopeless incompetent in charge at the start of the season". What if we'd thanked him for keeping us up, parted ways and appointed Bowen in June?


Or had stuck with Clement. After all Bowen is learning on the job.

Not sure we can say Bowen is learning on the job, he is a hugely experienced football man and been in and around dressing rooms for a number of years. It's not like it's his first ever job in football.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2020 15:43

What Ifs...

If Gomes had picked up just 1.1 ppg for his 11 games (12 total points)
we would be 4 points off the POs right now.

Of course, had we started with 12 from 11 he might not have been sacked

OR

Had we got 12 from 11 and been in with a shout and he'd been sacked we might
quite easily have got those four extra points and be in 6th right now.

UPDATE

Bowen League


P 25 3 38 1.52 70 2 0 HOME Barnsley
P 26 3 41 1.58 73 3 1 AWAY BRUM



Our ppg equates to a 73 point season = top six

The 26 games has us 5th, above Millwall on GD

Defence: Goals Conceded

23 Leeds
24 WBA, Brentford
25 Reading <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
26 Millwall
27 Blackburn
28 Fulham
29 Forest



That is

26 Played
11 Won (42.3%)
07 Drawn
08 Lost...... (Brentford, Leeds, Brum, Millwall, Bristol, WBA, Leeds, Wigan)
35 Goals for
25 Goals Against


Our League Defeats under Bowen by


1st Leeds
1st Leeds
2nd WBA
4th Brentford,
7th Bristol,
8th Millwall

16th Birmingham
20th Wigan but on a great run

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 08 Mar 2020 16:53

Yep, would have been very different if Bowen had be in charge from the start of the season I’m sure, but what happened is history now

It’ll certainly be interesting next season to see how he gets on with a preseason behind him but opposition coaches starting to get more info on his methods and tactics

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Re: Rival Watch

by Ascotexgunner » 08 Mar 2020 18:26

No doubt in my mind we would be closer to the playoffs and in the mix had Bowen started the season. Whenever we have been in a hole like we have seen, he has turned it around, which shows he clearly has the team onside, something Gomes and Clement can never claim.
Big test in the summer though, especially with the centre backs and Miazga sadly going back. I think next season we have to think playoffs at least he he retains this squad.
I think Tim Dellor nailed it with his comment about João. With him we could finish 6th.....without him 12th. We really miss a big holding player up front....


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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Mar 2020 18:34

For me this season was about finishing 16th or above steering clear of any relegation fight.

Next season the target should be 12th or above. The one after 6th or above.

Beat the schedule and that's great, but we shouldn't be upset if we don't sustain a play off push next season. We've still got a lot of ground to cover and a fair bit of consolidation to achieve to get back sustainable and on a solid footing.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Zip » 08 Mar 2020 18:38

Snowball What Ifs...

If Gomes had picked up just 1.1 ppg for his 11 games (12 total points)
we would be 4 points off the POs right now.

Of course, had we started with 12 from 11 he might not have been sacked

OR

Had we got 12 from 11 and been in with a shout and he'd been sacked we might
quite easily have got those four extra points and be in 6th right now.

UPDATE

Bowen League


P 25 3 38 1.52 70 2 0 HOME Barnsley
P 26 3 41 1.58 73 3 1 AWAY BRUM



Our ppg equates to a 73 point season = top six

The 26 games has us 5th, above Millwall on GD

Defence: Goals Conceded

23 Leeds
24 WBA, Brentford
25 Reading <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
26 Millwall
27 Blackburn
28 Fulham
29 Forest



That is

26 Played
11 Won (42.3%)
07 Drawn
08 Lost...... (Brentford, Leeds, Brum, Millwall, Bristol, WBA, Leeds, Wigan)
35 Goals for
25 Goals Against


Our League Defeats under Bowen by


1st Leeds
1st Leeds
2nd WBA
4th Brentford,
7th Bristol,
8th Millwall

16th Birmingham
20th Wigan but on a great run


So two really poor results and even then we won at Wigan and Birmingham. So all in all he has done very well.
The goals conceded is very impressive.

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Re: Rival Watch

by URZZZZ » 08 Mar 2020 20:07

Snowflake Royal For me this season was about finishing 16th or above steering clear of any relegation fight.

Next season the target should be 12th or above. The one after 6th or above.

Beat the schedule and that's great, but we shouldn't be upset if we don't sustain a play off push next season. We've still got a lot of ground to cover and a fair bit of consolidation to achieve to get back sustainable and on a solid footing.


With the levels of spending this season, the aim should have been higher than 16th

I’m not saying spending = success but the more you put in, the more you expect out and certainly from an owners’ perspective, this season has probably been a huge disappointment, especially after the 7 points against Cardiff, WBA and Huddersfield in one week

One thing the team need to improve on next season if they want to mount a challenge is reaction to poor results. Every time we lose, it generally seems to spark a winless streak that goes on for a while

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Re: Rival Watch

by Lower West » 08 Mar 2020 21:17

Old Man Andrews
Lower West
Snowflake Royal I prefer my what ifs in the form of "what if Gomes hadn't been the hopeless incompetent in charge at the start of the season". What if we'd thanked him for keeping us up, parted ways and appointed Bowen in June?


Or had stuck with Clement. After all Bowen is learning on the job.

Not sure we can say Bowen is learning on the job, he is a hugely experienced football man and been in and around dressing rooms for a number of years. It's not like it's his first ever job in football.


As Bowen has admited himself being a manager was never on his mind until asked if he wanted to try. Very different to other roles.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 08 Mar 2020 21:42

URZZZZ
One thing the team need to improve on next season if they want to mount a challenge is reaction to poor results. Every time we lose, it generally seems to spark a winless streak that goes on for a while



Not really true.

Lost 1-0 to Brentford
Lost 0-1 to Leeds (unlucky deflection, should have been 0-0)

THEN WON

=================================================

Lost 1-3 to Birmingham

Then DD-WWWW-D before next loss

=================================================

That loss was 0-2 to Millwall

DREW NEXT GAME

=================================================

Lost 0-1 to Bristol

Drew next two games

=================================================

Lost to WBA

Won next game 0-3

=================================================

Lost 0-1 to Leeds
Lost 0-3 to Wigan


Then promptly won two on the bounce

==================================================

The only real extended 7-game "bad-patch" was

D FOREST --------- decent result against a very decent team
L MILLWALL ----- poor
D FOREST -------- very good away point
L BRISTOL ------- not great, Bristol did a number on us
D CARDIFF ------ good away point against a solid side
D HULL ---------- a game we'd've won if not for a horrible deflection
L WBA ----------------absolutely no disgrace, top side

But these games followed DDWWWW, so WWWW DDDDDD LLL in 13 (18 Points)

If you look at our moving average for six games (1-6, 2-7, 3-8 etc)
things look pretty decent except for one patch but then that patch
was Forest, Millwall, Forest, Bristol, Cardiff, (Hull), West Brom, 7
games where we only expected to win one!

6-Game MA

Pts ppg "Season Equiv"

10 1.67 77
10 1.67 77
09 1.50 69
07 1.17 54
05 0.83 38
08 1.33 61
11 1.83 84
11 1.83 84
14 2.33 107
14 2.33 107
13 2.17 100
11 1.83 84
08 1.33 61
06 1.00 46
04 0.67 31
03 0.50 23
06 1.00 46
05 0.83 38
05 0.83 38

07 1.17 54
09 1.50 69

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Re: Rival Watch

by URZZZZ » 08 Mar 2020 21:58

Snowball
URZZZZ
One thing the team need to improve on next season if they want to mount a challenge is reaction to poor results. Every time we lose, it generally seems to spark a winless streak that goes on for a while



Not really true.

Lost 1-0 to Brentford
Lost 0-1 to Leeds (unlucky deflection, should have been 0-0)

THEN WON

=================================================

Lost 1-3 to Birmingham

Then DD-WWWW-D before next loss

=================================================

That loss was 0-2 to Millwall

DREW NEXT GAME

=================================================

Lost 0-1 to Bristol

Drew next two games

=================================================

Lost to WBA

Won next game 0-3

=================================================

Lost 0-1 to Leeds
Lost 0-3 to Wigan


Then promptly won two on the bounce

==================================================

The only real extended 7-game "bad-patch" was

D FOREST --------- decent result against a very decent team
L MILLWALL ----- poor
D FOREST -------- very good away point
L BRISTOL ------- not great, Bristol did a number on us
D CARDIFF ------ good away point against a solid side
D HULL ---------- a game we'd've won if not for a horrible deflection
L WBA ----------------absolutely no disgrace, top side

But these games followed DDWWWW, so WWWW DDDDDD LLL in 13 (18 Points)

If you look at our moving average for six games (1-6, 2-7, 3-8 etc)
things look pretty decent except for one patch but then that patch
was Forest, Millwall, Forest, Bristol, Cardiff, (Hull), West Brom, 7
games where we only expected to win one!

6-Game MA

Pts ppg "Season Equiv"

10 1.67 77
10 1.67 77
09 1.50 69
07 1.17 54
05 0.83 38
08 1.33 61
11 1.83 84
11 1.83 84
14 2.33 107
14 2.33 107
13 2.17 100
11 1.83 84
08 1.33 61
06 1.00 46
04 0.67 31
03 0.50 23
06 1.00 46
05 0.83 38
05 0.83 38

07 1.17 54
09 1.50 69


Miswrote what I was supposed to. My point was supposed to be that any loss we have after a decent set of results usually leads to a poor run and it always takes a while to fix

For example, beat Wycombe, beat Cardiff, drew to WBA, beat Huddersfield, beat Plymouth, lose to Charlton and then end up winless in the next 5

Then 10 points in our first four games under Bowen. One loss at Brentford and we end up with 1 win in 6 which revolves around a single player single handedly winning the game

Then our four win streak. One loss against Millwall and we end up with 1 win in 8 again

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Re: Rival Watch

by Bigtimmeh » 08 Mar 2020 22:16

I think after we lose we just get a bit average, everyone scared to make mistakes etc. On the upside after we lose badly Bowen does seem to be able to get a good reaction (so far)

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 09 Mar 2020 00:03

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal For me this season was about finishing 16th or above steering clear of any relegation fight.

Next season the target should be 12th or above. The one after 6th or above.

Beat the schedule and that's great, but we shouldn't be upset if we don't sustain a play off push next season. We've still got a lot of ground to cover and a fair bit of consolidation to achieve to get back sustainable and on a solid footing.


With the levels of spending this season, the aim should have been higher than 16th

I’m not saying spending = success but the more you put in, the more you expect out and certainly from an owners’ perspective, this season has probably been a huge disappointment, especially after the 7 points against Cardiff, WBA and Huddersfield in one week

One thing the team need to improve on next season if they want to mount a challenge is reaction to poor results. Every time we lose, it generally seems to spark a winless streak that goes on for a while

16th being the lower end of ok, hence 'or above'.

It takes time to turn things around. We were dire previously and our squad was a disaster, you don't sort that out in three months. If the owners expectations were much higher than this then that's not a great sign they know what's going on.


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Re: Rival Watch

by 10539.4 Miles Away » 09 Mar 2020 02:42

Bigtimmeh I think after we lose we just get a bit average, everyone scared to make mistakes etc. On the upside after we lose badly Bowen does seem to be able to get a good reaction (so far)


Nail on the head Timmeh. Been saying this since mid last season, this is a team full of confidence players, albeit now theres maybe one or two more who are more 'reliable'

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Re: Rival Watch

by Bigtimmeh » 09 Mar 2020 21:01

10539.4 Miles Away
Bigtimmeh I think after we lose we just get a bit average, everyone scared to make mistakes etc. On the upside after we lose badly Bowen does seem to be able to get a good reaction (so far)


Nail on the head Timmeh. Been saying this since mid last season, this is a team full of confidence players, albeit now theres maybe one or two more who are more 'reliable'

Why thankyou, no one has ever been kind to me on here before :?

Anyway yes I agree with you. I think when your key players (Moore swift ejaria puscas etc) are such form players that ends up running through the whole team. As with last season when it was rhino who was consistently ok or better, I agree that this season we have a few more like him (pele, Baldock, to some extent perhaps morrison).

I suppose the upside of having form players is that when you are good you are really good, and we all enjoy it.

What do you think?

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Re: Rival Watch

by 10539.4 Miles Away » 10 Mar 2020 03:26

Bigtimmeh
10539.4 Miles Away
Bigtimmeh I think after we lose we just get a bit average, everyone scared to make mistakes etc. On the upside after we lose badly Bowen does seem to be able to get a good reaction (so far)


Nail on the head Timmeh. Been saying this since mid last season, this is a team full of confidence players, albeit now theres maybe one or two more who are more 'reliable'

Why thankyou, no one has ever been kind to me on here before :?

Anyway yes I agree with you. I think when your key players (Moore swift ejaria puscas etc) are such form players that ends up running through the whole team. As with last season when it was rhino who was consistently ok or better, I agree that this season we have a few more like him (pele, Baldock, to some extent perhaps morrison).

I suppose the upside of having form players is that when you are good you are really good, and we all enjoy it.

What do you think?


Again, you are spot on. I'd definitely put Rafael in the reliable category, as well as Yiadom, Morrison, Adam, Pele, thats made a decent difference but you look at the rest of the squad, the likes of Swift, Ovie, Meite, Richards, Blackett thats where the good form turns in to a run of decent results and great looking football.

I think the crowd and the media (I'm looking at you Dellor and Gooding) have a huge part to play here, I feel the club have done well to incentivize getting the crowds in with pricing and improving the quality of booze, food etc. The future is bright.

*I accept this is a long distance observation from the safety of sitting on my couch on the other side of the world watching on iFollow, just my gut feeling about the team.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Bigtimmeh » 10 Mar 2020 07:28

10539.4 Miles Away
Bigtimmeh
10539.4 Miles Away
Nail on the head Timmeh. Been saying this since mid last season, this is a team full of confidence players, albeit now theres maybe one or two more who are more 'reliable'

Why thankyou, no one has ever been kind to me on here before :?

Anyway yes I agree with you. I think when your key players (Moore swift ejaria puscas etc) are such form players that ends up running through the whole team. As with last season when it was rhino who was consistently ok or better, I agree that this season we have a few more like him (pele, Baldock, to some extent perhaps morrison).

I suppose the upside of having form players is that when you are good you are really good, and we all enjoy it.

What do you think?


Again, you are spot on. I'd definitely put Rafael in the reliable category, as well as Yiadom, Morrison, Adam, Pele, thats made a decent difference but you look at the rest of the squad, the likes of Swift, Ovie, Meite, Richards, Blackett thats where the good form turns in to a run of decent results and great looking football.

I think the crowd and the media (I'm looking at you Dellor and Gooding) have a huge part to play here, I feel the club have done well to incentivize getting the crowds in with pricing and improving the quality of booze, food etc. The future is bright.

*I accept this is a long distance observation from the safety of sitting on my couch on the other side of the world watching on iFollow, just my gut feeling about the team.

To return the compliment I think you are spot on. I go most weeks and there has been a notible change this season with the blue collar food and 1871 getting established. I felt so sorry for the team against Wigan, but other than that the crowd has been much more positive than previous seasons, with increased away attendance too. I haven't listened to bbcrb in a while, but my memory of them is they always compare to the past, rather than looking forward, and some of them seem to have a personal issue with the club at times...

I don't know how I forgot to mention the goalies, but I think having reliable keepers has stopped us being alot worse, Rafael, martinez mannone were/are generally very reliable and have saved us loads of points.

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Re: Rival Watch

by NewCorkSeth » 10 Mar 2020 08:21

You two are setting a bad precedent. The team board is all about aggressive, nonsensical arguments. Stop it.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 10 Mar 2020 09:03

#bekind

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Re: Rival Watch

by Bigtimmeh » 10 Mar 2020 09:18

NewCorkSeth You two are setting a bad precedent. The team board is all about aggressive, nonsensical arguments. Stop it.

Cute, isn't it?

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