MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2019 14:54

Hendo They are two different players who really can't be compared, and to say Rino is overrated, is just a bit shortsighted.

Well, I'm not sure really. Shortsighted, or a different opinion about a player in a discussion forum?
Whenever someone says 'overrated' in here it sends out alarm bells when it doesn't always need to.

In real life, people rarely rate 2 players exactly the same all across the board, do they?
If two coaches are discussing a player there can be variance, even tho they both think and agree he's a good player.

In my experience, I can't recall too often when I've seen 2 people down the pub, at a game, etc, when their respective opinions of a player have aligned perfectly. There's usually been some divergence somewhere.

There are so many facets to a player's game, and to the game itself, that often aren't nuanced on a message board.

If I rate a player, and you rate him less, I'm 'overrating' him relative to you (in your judgement of him).
I might think he's better than you do, but that's all, and you might rate him highly too.
Indeed, you might rate some aspects of his game and abilities higher than I do.

Same if someone says a player is underrated, it doesn't mean everyone else thinks he's shite. Or at least, it shouldn't.

Of course, if someone thinks a player is indeed outright shite, then they can say that.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Jagermesiter1871 » 20 Aug 2019 19:15

Hound give it a rest with the victim stuff Denver - the quote in question was:

'Rino is so overrated its criminal'

That's a little different than just suggesting Rino is a little overrated (which is actually a sentiment I do agree with)


I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2019 19:25

Jagermesiter1871
Hound give it a rest with the victim stuff Denver - the quote in question was:

'Rino is so overrated its criminal'

That's a little different than just suggesting Rino is a little overrated (which is actually a sentiment I do agree with)


I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by The Enfield Royal71 » 20 Aug 2019 21:19

Snowball
Jagermesiter1871
Hound give it a rest with the victim stuff Denver - the quote in question was:

'Rino is so overrated its criminal'

That's a little different than just suggesting Rino is a little overrated (which is actually a sentiment I do agree with)


I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.


No Gylfi Sigurdsson is.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by 3points » 20 Aug 2019 21:57

Doesn’t need to be a Swift or Rino debate. Reckon we could go 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond of Pele deep, Rino right, Ovie left and Swift attacking.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by URZZZZ » 20 Aug 2019 22:15

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Hound
+1 and that’s from a Swift ‘fan’

It's odd to be comparing them because they're totally different types of player, but for the record -

Swift is clearly more technically skilled and has a better range of vision and passing for opening up defences and general attacking.

On the other hand, Rino is far more consistent, seriously superior in positioning, workrate and defensive qualities. He carries the ball forward quicker. His passing is more reliable... he just plays the simple ball. His shielding of the ball is excellent and he rarely turns into trouble or takes on too much.

In essence he's a much safer and smarter footballer who doesn't do flashy but is very effective. And all of this with a lot less first team experience than Swift and at a younger age.

If Swift can maintain his better performances this season it'll be much closer between them and Swift could also be a contender for PotS.


I was going to say they are very different players but I would say swift for much of his time here has been hamstrung by having crap forwards who can't read his succulent passes and shit dms who cant offer him any protection.

Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.


Agree with the sentiment that Rino is overrated (still a v good player) but you are contradicting yourself in trying to make a point. You excuse some of Swift’s awful performances by blaming the rest of his team mates yet you use the fact the rest of the team looked terrible to say Rino is overrated

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by URZZZZ » 20 Aug 2019 22:18

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Jagermesiter1871 Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.

Heh, if you say someone is overrated, some will think you are saying he's crap. There's little middle ground. If you don't rate a bloke exactly as highly as they do, the knives are out.
As far as having a 'discussion' about Rino, evaluating his play and what areas of his game he will need to develop - just as you should be able to do with any young player from 5 years old on upwards - I foolishly tried that a few months ago and I still have the scars. So, I'll leave it to you, except to say that a few months ago you couldn't say anything about Danny Loader either, so hang in there. :wink:


Difference being is that you were criticising Rino for his lack of goals where that clearly isn’t anything to do with his role

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Denver Royal » 20 Aug 2019 23:35

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Jagermesiter1871 Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.

Heh, if you say someone is overrated, some will think you are saying he's crap. There's little middle ground. If you don't rate a bloke exactly as highly as they do, the knives are out.
As far as having a 'discussion' about Rino, evaluating his play and what areas of his game he will need to develop - just as you should be able to do with any young player from 5 years old on upwards - I foolishly tried that a few months ago and I still have the scars. So, I'll leave it to you, except to say that a few months ago you couldn't say anything about Danny Loader either, so hang in there. :wink:

Difference being is that you were criticising Rino for his lack of goals where that clearly isn’t anything to do with his role

Difference being, I was merely making observations, imo. I was discussing his game with you back then. and wondered about his future development as a player, and in particular offensively.
In hindsight, I shouldn’t have done so. I haven’t since, and I won’t again, at least not with you. And then you’ll be better, so will I, and so will the discussion forum.
One in which, you've said, you hate it when everyone agrees with each other, and that you've pleaded shouldn't be that way.
One of the ironies of which is that you want more discussion. And yet your delivery, often filled with ridicule, does little to facilitate it. In short, you can't get out of your own way.
Anyway since then, short of ammo, in conversation with others, you have kept harking back to that.
And, talked out of both sides of your mouth. You’ve said A) I made a good point, and B) Quoted it to make your own points, while I (hopefully) take the flak for it. Very brave and classy of of you.
Oh, and that was at a time when you actually called Rino a DM! Go on, admit it.
Except that, a few weeks later, you actually started reprimanding others. You started saying ‘He isn’t a DM! He just isn’t. It’s as simple as that!’
(And in youth teams, he hadn’t been).
Say, notice how I've never opened a can of whoop ass on you? Just with regard to 1871 alone, I could have piled on. You surely must have known that. I could have, but I didn’t.
And I didn’t even get to the on the field stuff with you yet. Lots of ammo there.
Anyway, let's end it here, you were right. And so now we don’t have to worry about that anymore. See ya.
Last edited by Denver Royal on 21 Aug 2019 02:34, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowball » 20 Aug 2019 23:35

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Snowball Team Ratings (Overall)

6.92 Leeds
6.91 Wednesday
6.88 Hull
6.83 Millwall
6.82 Reading

LOL. Are Wednesday and Hull top 5 because they both played us?



Well, Wednesday are now top of the league!


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2019 23:49

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Jagermesiter1871
Hound give it a rest with the victim stuff Denver - the quote in question was:

'Rino is so overrated its criminal'

That's a little different than just suggesting Rino is a little overrated (which is actually a sentiment I do agree with)


I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.

He's not in the top 10. He's not in the top 5 Strikers ffs..

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Jagermesiter1871 » 20 Aug 2019 23:53

URZZZZ
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Snowflake Royal It's odd to be comparing them because they're totally different types of player, but for the record -

Swift is clearly more technically skilled and has a better range of vision and passing for opening up defences and general attacking.

On the other hand, Rino is far more consistent, seriously superior in positioning, workrate and defensive qualities. He carries the ball forward quicker. His passing is more reliable... he just plays the simple ball. His shielding of the ball is excellent and he rarely turns into trouble or takes on too much.

In essence he's a much safer and smarter footballer who doesn't do flashy but is very effective. And all of this with a lot less first team experience than Swift and at a younger age.

If Swift can maintain his better performances this season it'll be much closer between them and Swift could also be a contender for PotS.


I was going to say they are very different players but I would say swift for much of his time here has been hamstrung by having crap forwards who can't read his succulent passes and shit dms who cant offer him any protection.

Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.


Agree with the sentiment that Rino is overrated (still a v good player) but you are contradicting yourself in trying to make a point. You excuse some of Swift’s awful performances by blaming the rest of his team mates yet you use the fact the rest of the team looked terrible to say Rino is overrated


I also said I think Rino is far less reliant on others to look good and my overall point is that I think he is good just not as incredible, as others on here think. If he is as brilliant as many on here suggest, it would seem odd that we've still been overrun in midfield whilst he's played. Many of those praising Rino despite poor team performances and results are the same that slate Swift.
Last edited by Jagermesiter1871 on 20 Aug 2019 23:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Jagermesiter1871 » 20 Aug 2019 23:54

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I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.

He's not in the top 10. He's not in the top 5 Strikers ffs..


He's not even in the top 5 Irish players.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowflake Royal » 20 Aug 2019 23:57

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I was going to say they are very different players but I would say swift for much of his time here has been hamstrung by having crap forwards who can't read his succulent passes and shit dms who cant offer him any protection.

Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.


Agree with the sentiment that Rino is overrated (still a v good player) but you are contradicting yourself in trying to make a point. You excuse some of Swift’s awful performances by blaming the rest of his team mates yet you use the fact the rest of the team looked terrible to say Rino is overrated


I also said I think Rino is far less reliant on others to look good and my overall point is that I think he is good just not as incredible, as others on here think. If he is was as brilliant as many on here suggest, it would seem odd that we've still been overrun in midfield whilst he's played. Many of those praising Rino despite poor team performances and results are the same that slate Swift.

Yeah. Because Rino was consistently one of the most positive contributors on the pitch for us last season. And for large swathes of it Swift was.... er... not.

It's not his teammates getting Swift to turn into tackles, try to fancy his way through 3 players and no gap or fail to track back and put in a challenge. Thankfully, Swift seems to have eradicated most of those flaws this season. But they were there before and it's not because the others weren't good enough for him.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowball » 21 Aug 2019 00:30

:D


Jagermesiter1871
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That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.

He's not in the top 10. He's not in the top 5 Strikers ffs..


He's not even in the top 5 Irish players.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Snowball » 21 Aug 2019 00:31

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Snowball :
Jagermesiter1871
I think he's massively overrated. I think he's good. Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


That's silly. Shane is our best player ever.

He's not in the top 10. He's not in the top 5 Strikers ffs..



:D

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by URZZZZ » 21 Aug 2019 08:35

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Denver Royal Heh, if you say someone is overrated, some will think you are saying he's crap. There's little middle ground. If you don't rate a bloke exactly as highly as they do, the knives are out.
As far as having a 'discussion' about Rino, evaluating his play and what areas of his game he will need to develop - just as you should be able to do with any young player from 5 years old on upwards - I foolishly tried that a few months ago and I still have the scars. So, I'll leave it to you, except to say that a few months ago you couldn't say anything about Danny Loader either, so hang in there. :wink:

Difference being is that you were criticising Rino for his lack of goals where that clearly isn’t anything to do with his role

Difference being, I was merely making observations, imo. I was discussing his game with you back then. and wondered about his future development as a player, and in particular offensively.
In hindsight, I shouldn’t have done so. I haven’t since, and I won’t again, at least not with you. And then you’ll be better, so will I, and so will the discussion forum.
One in which, you've said, you hate it when everyone agrees with each other, and that you've pleaded shouldn't be that way.
One of the ironies of which is that you want more discussion. And yet your delivery, often filled with ridicule, does little to facilitate it. In short, you can't get out of your own way.
Anyway since then, short of ammo, in conversation with others, you have kept harking back to that.
And, talked out of both sides of your mouth. You’ve said A) I made a good point, and B) Quoted it to make your own points, while I (hopefully) take the flak for it. Very brave and classy of of you.
Oh, and that was at a time when you actually called Rino a DM! Go on, admit it.
Except that, a few weeks later, you actually started reprimanding others. You started saying ‘He isn’t a DM! He just isn’t. It’s as simple as that!’
(And in youth teams, he hadn’t been).
Say, notice how I've never opened a can of whoop ass on you? Just with regard to 1871 alone, I could have piled on. You surely must have known that. I could have, but I didn’t.
And I didn’t even get to the on the field stuff with you yet. Lots of ammo there.
Anyway, let's end it here, you were right. And so now we don’t have to worry about that anymore. See ya.


Yep. I did say Rino was a DM. I also thought he could qualify as a box to box midfielder. But you made some good points which made me evaluate that. He doesn’t score/assist enough to be classified as a box to box and he doesn’t hold enough to be a DM

But that’s no problem. Rino is fantastic at what he does, him not scoring or assisting is not a problem for me. For you? “Surprised the midfield is getting as much praise as it is” and your reason was that they (including Rino) werent scoring or assisting enough goals. That’s why I was “talking out of both sides

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Hendo » 21 Aug 2019 08:41

Jagermesiter1871
Hound give it a rest with the victim stuff Denver - the quote in question was:

'Rino is so overrated its criminal'

That's a little different than just suggesting Rino is a little overrated (which is actually a sentiment I do agree with)


Some (most) on here think he is our best player possibly ever.


Yeah, I don't think anyone has said that...

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by Hound » 21 Aug 2019 08:46

Jagermesiter1871
URZZZZ
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I was going to say they are very different players but I would say swift for much of his time here has been hamstrung by having crap forwards who can't read his succulent passes and shit dms who cant offer him any protection.

Rino is much less reliant on others to look good. The thing that makes me say he's overrated is the fact he's only actually played around 20 first team games for us, many we've lost and looked appalling in, and yet many on here talk as though he is undroppable and essentially the next coming. I think he's good. I just don't think he's incredible and for me he hasn't been tested enough to say he is as amazing as the vast majority on here say he is and I think the fact he's an academy product has massive sway.


Agree with the sentiment that Rino is overrated (still a v good player) but you are contradicting yourself in trying to make a point. You excuse some of Swift’s awful performances by blaming the rest of his team mates yet you use the fact the rest of the team looked terrible to say Rino is overrated


I also said I think Rino is far less reliant on others to look good and my overall point is that I think he is good just not as incredible, as others on here think. If he is as brilliant as many on here suggest, it would seem odd that we've still been overrun in midfield whilst he's played. Many of those praising Rino despite poor team performances and results are the same that slate Swift.


Think thats quite fair Jaeger'. An outstanding player in a poor team, maybe not so strong in a good one is a little how I see him. He still has a big role to play for us and can come in for any of the current 3 fairly seamlessly I think.

I'm not too sure anyone has said he was 'amazing' though. I do think the majority see him as a very good player, rather than the next Gylfi.

lolz at Denver's rant btw (edited 6 times)

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by URZZZZ » 21 Aug 2019 08:50

Hound
Jagermesiter1871
URZZZZ
Agree with the sentiment that Rino is overrated (still a v good player) but you are contradicting yourself in trying to make a point. You excuse some of Swift’s awful performances by blaming the rest of his team mates yet you use the fact the rest of the team looked terrible to say Rino is overrated


I also said I think Rino is far less reliant on others to look good and my overall point is that I think he is good just not as incredible, as others on here think. If he is as brilliant as many on here suggest, it would seem odd that we've still been overrun in midfield whilst he's played. Many of those praising Rino despite poor team performances and results are the same that slate Swift.




lolz at Denver's rant btw (edited 6 times)


I don’t understand his problem. It’s like he has to take the superior stance on everything

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Cardiff City (h) sponsored by Adam Federici

by The Enfield Royal71 » 21 Aug 2019 09:21

URZZZZ
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Jagermesiter1871
I also said I think Rino is far less reliant on others to look good and my overall point is that I think he is good just not as incredible, as others on here think. If he is as brilliant as many on here suggest, it would seem odd that we've still been overrun in midfield whilst he's played. Many of those praising Rino despite poor team performances and results are the same that slate Swift.




lolz at Denver's rant btw (edited 6 times)


I don’t understand his problem. It’s like he has to take the superior stance on everything


Him vs Ian would be a battle for the ages.

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