MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

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SCIAG
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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by SCIAG » 03 Oct 2019 20:13

I think there's a fair difference between playing Pele and playing Loader, and not just the obvious ones due to their qualities as players.

I've just remembered the amount of time Gomes spent playing Loader behind the striker last season. I do think there's a noticeable difference between that (a 4-2-3-1) and his 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 with Baker or Pele sitting in front of the defence. Obviously there's still a back four and a lone striker, but in 4-2-3-1 the striker is usually less isolated. 4-2-3-1 is much closer to 4-4-2 (think of the Hughes-Forster partnership, or the Sigurdsson-Long one). 4-1-4-1 is much closer to 3-4-3 (think about Evans and Joey dropping into the back line during the Stam days).

Now if anyone tries to convince me of the difference between 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1 then sorry, I'm out. But there are at least two major variations of 4-5-1 depending on whether you have two deep players and one advanced one, or one deep player and two advanced ones.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Oct 2019 21:47

SCIAG I think there's a fair difference between playing Pele and playing Loader, and not just the obvious ones due to their qualities as players.

I've just remembered the amount of time Gomes spent playing Loader behind the striker last season. I do think there's a noticeable difference between that (a 4-2-3-1) and his 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 with Baker or Pele sitting in front of the defence. Obviously there's still a back four and a lone striker, but in 4-2-3-1 the striker is usually less isolated. 4-2-3-1 is much closer to 4-4-2 (think of the Hughes-Forster partnership, or the Sigurdsson-Long one). 4-1-4-1 is much closer to 3-4-3 (think about Evans and Joey dropping into the back line during the Stam days).

Now if anyone tries to convince me of the difference between 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1 then sorry, I'm out. But there are at least two major variations of 4-5-1 depending on whether you have two deep players and one advanced one, or one deep player and two advanced ones.

You can't really compare Pele and Loader.

Pele is in the Rino / Baker slot, whilst Loader was in the Swift / Ejaria slot now.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Hound » 03 Oct 2019 22:14

I’d say the main differences aren’t actually between 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3 or whatever else but how we play in terms of width

We are very narrow this season - that’s been the main difference between say when we played McCleary/Barrow last year and this. We just play a tunnel through the middle with just the two FBs for any sort of width. I don’t like it personally

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by URZZZZ » 03 Oct 2019 23:06

Hound I’d say the main differences aren’t actually between 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3 or whatever else but how we play in terms of width

We are very narrow this season - that’s been the main difference between say when we played McCleary/Barrow last year and this. We just play a tunnel through the middle with just the two FBs for any sort of width. I don’t like it personally


It's an effective system with the correct fullbacks. It's how Fulham played when they scored a shed load in the playoff season. They played narrow (coincidentally with Aluko on the right) and Piazon on the left (again not a winger) with the width supplied by Fredericks and Malone who are two players able to play that role

Yiadom and Richards/Obita/Blackett aren't able to beat a man and whip a cross in. It isn't their game. We're not playing a game suited to our players' and it quite obviously isn't working. It's pure braindead

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by SCIAG » 04 Oct 2019 16:24

Snowflake Royal You can't really compare Pele and Loader.

Pele is in the Rino / Baker slot, whilst Loader was in the Swift / Ejaria slot now.

Not quite a Wolfcastle, not quite a woosh... or is it a woosh?

My entire point was that a midfield with Pele sat behind Rinomhota and Ejaria is very different to a midfield with Loader in front of Rinomhota and Ejaria.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Oct 2019 16:36

SCIAG
Snowflake Royal You can't really compare Pele and Loader.

Pele is in the Rino / Baker slot, whilst Loader was in the Swift / Ejaria slot now.

Not quite a Wolfcastle, not quite a woosh... or is it a woosh?

My entire point was that a midfield with Pele sat behind Rinomhota and Ejaria is very different to a midfield with Loader in front of Rinomhota and Ejaria.

I cba anymore tbh. In how it functions? Yes, but in how it's described as a formation? No.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by leon » 04 Oct 2019 19:15

Ah the gentleman’s get out

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Oct 2019 19:20

For those of us that don't frequent this place 10 hours each day,...wtf is a “wolfcastle”?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by leon » 04 Oct 2019 19:31

AthleticoSpizz For those of us that don't frequent this place 10 hours each day,...wtf is a “wolfcastle”?


Nice whoosh Spizzeroni


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Oct 2019 19:33

I’m here all year :wink:







...every year





but what’s a wolfcastle?

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Rusty royal » 04 Oct 2019 19:35

AthleticoSpizz For those of us that don't frequent this place 10 hours each day,...wtf is a “wolfcastle”?


:shock: The village where I live (SA62 5LZ ) :shock:

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Oct 2019 19:37

hallowed ground, I’m sure Rusty :wink:

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Rusty royal » 04 Oct 2019 19:41

AthleticoSpizz hallowed ground, I’m sure Rusty :wink:
Look it up :wink: it's b e a u t i f u l and peaceful too https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=wolfscastle&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Oct 2019 19:42

Ooh yes, SOLD


:wink:

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by Snowflake Royal » 04 Oct 2019 21:34

leon Ah the gentleman’s get out

Tbf, I was coming from the point of view that arguing over the minutiae of numbered descriptions of formations is daft, so then getting stuck in an argument about how numbered systems best describe different combinations of players was literally the opposite of what I was suggesting.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by SCIAG » 04 Oct 2019 21:59

AthleticoSpizz For those of us that don't frequent this place 10 hours each day,...wtf is a “wolfcastle”?

"That's the joke".

For example
"No wins in eight matches. Clement out! The next guy can't do any worse."
"Clement left a year ago."
"That's the joke"
"Oh no I just got Wolfcastled"

Named after Rainier Wolfcastle, a fictionalised version of Arnold Schwarzenegger from The Simpsons, who uttered the line "That's the joke" when nobody found his joke funny.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by AthleticoSpizz » 04 Oct 2019 22:01

Oh wow, thank you :arrow: :|

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by NewCorkSeth » 04 Oct 2019 22:57

URZZZZ
Hound I’d say the main differences aren’t actually between 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3 or whatever else but how we play in terms of width

We are very narrow this season - that’s been the main difference between say when we played McCleary/Barrow last year and this. We just play a tunnel through the middle with just the two FBs for any sort of width. I don’t like it personally


It's an effective system with the correct fullbacks. It's how Fulham played when they scored a shed load in the playoff season. They played narrow (coincidentally with Aluko on the right) and Piazon on the left (again not a winger) with the width supplied by Fredericks and Malone who are two players able to play that role

Yiadom and Richards/Obita/Blackett aren't able to beat a man and whip a cross in. It isn't their game. We're not playing a game suited to our players' and it quite obviously isn't working. It's pure braindead

Game has moved past that already I reckon. Look at Sarriball not working. He plays narrow football with a "kind of" back 3 as Jorginho occupied the space the 3rd CB would have most the time. We need width and we dknt have it.

In fact we might be playing a version of Sarriball. I'm sure Gomes is trying to emulate Mourinhos Porto tactics the more I see it. But with 2 attacking centre mids.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by URZZZZ » 05 Oct 2019 09:57

NewCorkSeth
URZZZZ
Hound I’d say the main differences aren’t actually between 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-1-2-3 or whatever else but how we play in terms of width

We are very narrow this season - that’s been the main difference between say when we played McCleary/Barrow last year and this. We just play a tunnel through the middle with just the two FBs for any sort of width. I don’t like it personally


It's an effective system with the correct fullbacks. It's how Fulham played when they scored a shed load in the playoff season. They played narrow (coincidentally with Aluko on the right) and Piazon on the left (again not a winger) with the width supplied by Fredericks and Malone who are two players able to play that role

Yiadom and Richards/Obita/Blackett aren't able to beat a man and whip a cross in. It isn't their game. We're not playing a game suited to our players' and it quite obviously isn't working. It's pure braindead

Game has moved past that already I reckon. Look at Sarriball not working. He plays narrow football with a "kind of" back 3 as Jorginho occupied the space the 3rd CB would have most the time. We need width and we dknt have it.

In fact we might be playing a version of Sarriball. I'm sure Gomes is trying to emulate Mourinhos Porto tactics the more I see it. But with 2 attacking centre mids.


Not sure I fully agree. Liverpool don't play with any natural "wingers". Salah and Mane drift inside the entire game, leaving Alexander Arnold and Robertson to do the work on the flanks. It's OK relying on fullbacks to do all the attacking work if they're capable of doing it

Didn't see Mourinho's Porto tactics so can't comment on that. But at least Sarriball was one touch around the pitch with some sort of urgency. It takes our players six touches to control it and move it on. By that time, the opponents regain shape and we're back to square one

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Swansea City (a) sponsored by Andy Legg & Jason Bowen

by NewCorkSeth » 05 Oct 2019 11:42

URZZZZ
NewCorkSeth
URZZZZ
It's an effective system with the correct fullbacks. It's how Fulham played when they scored a shed load in the playoff season. They played narrow (coincidentally with Aluko on the right) and Piazon on the left (again not a winger) with the width supplied by Fredericks and Malone who are two players able to play that role

Yiadom and Richards/Obita/Blackett aren't able to beat a man and whip a cross in. It isn't their game. We're not playing a game suited to our players' and it quite obviously isn't working. It's pure braindead

Game has moved past that already I reckon. Look at Sarriball not working. He plays narrow football with a "kind of" back 3 as Jorginho occupied the space the 3rd CB would have most the time. We need width and we dknt have it.

In fact we might be playing a version of Sarriball. I'm sure Gomes is trying to emulate Mourinhos Porto tactics the more I see it. But with 2 attacking centre mids.


Not sure I fully agree. Liverpool don't play with any natural "wingers". Salah and Mane drift inside the entire game, leaving Alexander Arnold and Robertson to do the work on the flanks. It's OK relying on fullbacks to do all the attacking work if they're capable of doing it

Didn't see Mourinho's Porto tactics so can't comment on that. But at least Sarriball was one touch around the pitch with some sort of urgency. It takes our players six touches to control it and move it on. By that time, the opponents regain shape and we're back to square one

Liverpool dont play narrow. TAA hugs the line. Sarriball is defined by narrow full backs.

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