Finance

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Notts Royal
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Re: Finance

by Notts Royal » 04 May 2020 09:02

Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


Yes the motivation would be an interesting one - and presumably the less fashionable clubs like us would struggle to attract players if every club pays the same wage.

However, in my opinion, the motivation should be based on wanting to wins games & win trophies, like it used to be. This situation is a massive reality check to most of us, football players too

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 04 May 2020 09:07

Notts Royal
Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


Yes the motivation would be an interesting one - and presumably the less fashionable clubs like us would struggle to attract players if every club pays the same wage.

However, in my opinion, the motivation should be based on wanting to wins games & win trophies, like it used to be. This situation is a massive reality check to most of us, football players too


yeah, it could be workable. Its just a very different mindset

My main one would be whether whether the prem implemented something similar, or else you are talking about players losing 90% of their weekly wage due to a relegation.

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Re: Finance

by Elm Park Kid » 04 May 2020 09:26

Hound
Notts Royal
Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


Yes the motivation would be an interesting one - and presumably the less fashionable clubs like us would struggle to attract players if every club pays the same wage.

However, in my opinion, the motivation should be based on wanting to wins games & win trophies, like it used to be. This situation is a massive reality check to most of us, football players too


yeah, it could be workable. Its just a very different mindset

My main one would be whether whether the prem implemented something similar, or else you are talking about players losing 90% of their weekly wage due to a relegation.


There would probably need to be some transitional arrangements. Like relegated clubs can continue paying existing players at a higher level for a season or two.

Legally though this kind of cap just isn't possible for the start of next season. Clubs can't void/amend contracts that have already been signed. And if the rule states that only players on salaries of £7k or less can play then that will mean an awful lot of sidelined players.

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 04 May 2020 09:54

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So,if it came in next season you would have to dispose of excess players, or keep paying them ?
I’d assumed it was a way of enforcing lower budgets but having players you can’t use but have to keep paying would be tricky.

It’s a situation that already exists. The Premier League has a 25 man squad limit. Newcastle currently have 27 senior players. Jack Colback and Henri Saivet go to training and get paid but can only play in cup games.

In recent years Younes Kaboul at Watford and Andy King at Leicester have been in similar situations.


That’s entirely different though. There is a world of difference between the richest league in the world allowing clubs to carry a few ‘extra’ players and a league where clubs are struggling financially to be in a position where they are paying players but not allowed to use them. You would think the squad limit would need to be brought in gradually - much like some clubs have been restricted due to FFP breaches to only be allowed to sign new players when they can do so and be within the rules.
So if a club currently has 27 players they can continue to use them, but can only sign new ones once their squad size drops below 24 either due to sales, contracts ending or retirements.
Assuming the squad size is about controlling finances (which would be good) the implementation shouldn’t be done without considering unintended consequences !

It’s a common system used around the world. The Spanish second division uses it and the teams there are considerably less wealthy than the average Championship team.

Ultimately there’s not much difference between “we can’t use you because we have 24 better players who we registered instead” and “we can’t use you because we have 24 better players who we’d rather use instead”.

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 04 May 2020 10:11

Elm Park Kid
Notts Royal I did mention a wage cap earlier in this thread & someone said it was a stupid idea. Now the EFL are talking about it. Maybe it wasn’t such a bad idea after all...!

I don’t think it’s the case that players will shoot off to other European leagues, as most likely wholesale changes to wage structures are going to be required across the globe.

But would be interesting to see how it would work - would every player be on £7k seeing as the lower earners at clubs are probably on that already?!


That's a good point, but £7k is a low level. I think that most Spanish/German/Italian and French clubs would be able to offer significantly more. Maybe even US and Chinese as well.

Anyway, I think the players and their agents will go absolutely ballistic. They will fight it in every court possible and maybe even threaten strike actions. It's hard to overstate just how much salaries have become the number one obsession in football.

Edit - I suppose that Brexit does give us the opportunity to create some new migration rules preventing players from leaving.

There’s no getting away from it being a stupid idea. Wouldn’t be the first that the FL have had!

Firstly as I said previously it’s basically a way of taking money away from people who have earned it and giving it to rent seekers like club owners, agents, broadcasters, and so forth. The players deserve to have their wages set by the market not by a committee and that’s as true now as it was in 1961.

Currently the FL doesn’t just compete with Serie B, Ligue 2, etc. for players, but with Serie A, Ligue 1, and the Bundesliga. Are those clubs going to have salary caps that are anything like £7000 a week? Almost certainly not.

If we actually want clubs to be sustainable then we could modify FFP rules to demand that they have six months of cash reserves to cover non-transfer costs, or some diversified income source. I’m sure there’s a smarter way to phrase that - again I am not a financial professional or a lawyer - but we shouldn’t have a problem with footballers getting filthy rich.

Edit: I’m assuming the line about Brexit being an opportunity to clamp down on emigration is a joke.


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Re: Finance

by WestYorksRoyal » 04 May 2020 10:43

I have 2 big financial thoughts from the current situation. One small positive and one big concern.

Firstly, surely FFP will have to be relaxed in the short term? Could this get us off the hook in the short term?

The concern is around economic fallout and geo-politics. A recession is coming and we are reliant upon Chinese owners. It's not at all unheard of for the Chinese Government to crack the on their wealthy and restrict the flight of capital in difficult times (or simply for political reasons). If this happens, our life support is effectively switched off. High wage costs, no revenue, no assets. We'd need to find another wealthy owner.

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Re: Finance

by Forbury Lion » 04 May 2020 11:21

Notts Royal
Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


Yes the motivation would be an interesting one - and presumably the less fashionable clubs like us would struggle to attract players if every club pays the same wage.

However, in my opinion, the motivation should be based on wanting to wins games & win trophies, like it used to be. This situation is a massive reality check to most of us, football players too
It can work for and against us
Players will want to play for the best teams and win trophies..... but would they be happy sitting on a bench not playing when they could be earning the same money playing week in week out for a lesser team? I imagine it's easier to sit on the bench/not even make the bench for a premier league team if you're on £50k a week.

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Re: Finance

by WestYorksRoyal » 04 May 2020 11:29

Forbury Lion
Notts Royal
Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


Yes the motivation would be an interesting one - and presumably the less fashionable clubs like us would struggle to attract players if every club pays the same wage.

However, in my opinion, the motivation should be based on wanting to wins games & win trophies, like it used to be. This situation is a massive reality check to most of us, football players too
It can work for and against us
Players will want to play for the best teams and win trophies..... but would they be happy sitting on a bench not playing when they could be earning the same money playing week in week out for a lesser team? I imagine it's easier to sit on the bench/not even make the bench for a premier league team if you're on £50k a week.

I assume wage caps would not apply, or at least be considerably higher in the PL. In terms of how an unfashionable club like us would attract players, you prove yourselves to be a club that improves players and gets them set up for the PL move (either by promotion or transfers). Then aspiring, talented players will see you as a good move.

No idea how relegation from the PL would work. You'd have to allow some sort of staggering in line with parachute payments. Or lower PL players can just accept they are fighting for £30k+ per week in their relegation battle - would certainly add to the entertainment for neutrals.

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Re: Finance

by Forbury Lion » 04 May 2020 11:30

What about this idea

End of season, average weekly salaries for all players employed at the club is calculated. For every £1k above the agreed average the club gets a 1 point deduction.

It will need tweaking as a club could take on 50 fake players on minimum wage and that will bring the average down. :?

Relegated Premier League clubs would likely be relegated twice in a row if they don't get their wages under control.


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Re: Finance

by Ascotexgunner » 04 May 2020 11:34

Even if there was a 7K wage cap, clubs would look to get around it. Image rights, shirt sales or ironically some kind of "payment".
Football clubs are underhand. They think their a business, but don't operate like one. It will fall to pieces very quickly...…

Incidentally Simon Jordan threw us into the mix on Talksport a couple of times yesterday mentioning that for for every 1.00 we spend, 2.20 goes on players salaries and that we have thrown 3 seasons worth of FFP spending into 1 season....
Nice to be noticed...….sadly for all the wrong reasons......

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Re: Finance

by Franchise FC » 04 May 2020 11:43

Elm Park Kid Edit - I suppose that Brexit does give us the opportunity to create some new migration rules preventing players from leaving.


How could any migration rules stop people from leaving ?
It's the receiving country that have the sole jurisdiction on migration

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Re: Finance

by Franchise FC » 04 May 2020 11:45

Ascotexgunner Even if there was a 7K wage cap, clubs would look to get around it. Image rights, shirt sales or ironically some kind of "payment".
Football clubs are underhand. They think their a business, but don't operate like one. It will fall to pieces very quickly...…

Incidentally Simon Jordan threw us into the mix on Talksport a couple of times yesterday mentioning that for for every 1.00 we spend, 2.20 goes on players salaries and that we have thrown 3 seasons worth of FFP spending into 1 season....
Nice to be noticed...….sadly for all the wrong reasons......

And, apparently, all his reasons are wrong as he hasn't read and understood the way that FFP works with business groups ... he could always be trying to be deliberately provocative to make a story of course

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 04 May 2020 12:32

Franchise FC
Elm Park Kid Edit - I suppose that Brexit does give us the opportunity to create some new migration rules preventing players from leaving.


How could any migration rules stop people from leaving ?
It's the receiving country that have the sole jurisdiction on migration

There are several historical and a few current examples of countries restricting emigration. They’re all tyrannical regimes that there is very little appetite for the UK to emulate.


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Re: Finance

by Sutekh » 04 May 2020 13:50

Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?


I would imagine sides relegated from the PL would get a season or so to adjust. Perhaps the PL (and all top divisions in all countries) should also look at capping wages and if PL clubs were obliged to put wage reduction on relegation clauses into contracts when signing players then there would be less issue for a club if it were relegated.

The bonus scenario is one that would also need to be covered carefully just to limit the loopholes but if a bonus is only payable on winning, clean sheets or scoring and a club is playing poorly then that should still stop expenditure issues arising with an underperforming team.

Overall though at least clubs should all be in favour of this, it’s just a matter of how it’s initially implemented that needs to be thought about. Perhaps profit/sustainability rules could be completely reviewed once this was in place?

Be really interested to see how this one develops.

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Re: Finance

by Zip » 04 May 2020 18:14

I don’t know whether the £7k a week wage cap is feasible but going forward wages need to be significantly lower at Championship level and if it means players go abroad so be it.
Bless them they would still be on £350k a year so I’m sure the little poppets could cope.

It’s very difficult to see how clubs can renegotiate existing contracts though. I can see court cases arising which would be very messy and expensive. So best to let existing contracts run their course but any new contracts should be on much more realistic wages going forward.

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Re: Finance

by 72 bus » 04 May 2020 18:41

Zip I don’t know whether the £7k a week wage cap is feasible but going forward wages need to be significantly lower at Championship level and if it means players go abroad so be it.
Bless them they would still be on £350k a year so I’m sure the little poppets could cope.

It’s very difficult to see how clubs can renegotiate existing contracts though. I can see court cases arising which would be very messy and expensive. So best to let existing contracts run their course but any new contracts should be on much more realistic wages going forward.



How many of our current first team would find foreign buyers? can you see any of them gracing La Liga or the Bundesliga.

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Re: Finance

by Zip » 04 May 2020 18:56

72 bus
Zip I don’t know whether the £7k a week wage cap is feasible but going forward wages need to be significantly lower at Championship level and if it means players go abroad so be it.
Bless them they would still be on £350k a year so I’m sure the little poppets could cope.

It’s very difficult to see how clubs can renegotiate existing contracts though. I can see court cases arising which would be very messy and expensive. So best to let existing contracts run their course but any new contracts should be on much more realistic wages going forward.



How many of our current first team would find foreign buyers? can you see any of them gracing La Liga or the Bundesliga.


Not many but it’s possible they may be offered more than £7k in the tier below in the bigger European Leagues or in China, Turkey etc.

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 04 May 2020 19:24

72 bus
Zip I don’t know whether the £7k a week wage cap is feasible but going forward wages need to be significantly lower at Championship level and if it means players go abroad so be it.
Bless them they would still be on £350k a year so I’m sure the little poppets could cope.

It’s very difficult to see how clubs can renegotiate existing contracts though. I can see court cases arising which would be very messy and expensive. So best to let existing contracts run their course but any new contracts should be on much more realistic wages going forward.



How many of our current first team would find foreign buyers? can you see any of them gracing La Liga or the Bundesliga.

Think we’d be very likely to lose Meite to France and Puscas would have a wealth of suitors, just for a start.

If the PL were capping wages below other countries then we’d probably lose a few players to them in order to replace departures.

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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 04 May 2020 19:27

Hound its an odd one that 7k limit.

I can see the benefits, but how does it work if a team gets relegated from the Premier, and a player is on 50k a week?

Also, if any sort of normality is returned, nearly all players will be on 7k. Where is the motivation to push yourself for a bigger wage? Or will bonuses/signing on fees etc still be allowed?

Easy answer to that is contract clause.

Any player contract would need to stipulate that upon relegation they're wage must be cut to at least the maximum allowed for that league. As for incentive, at the levels they're paid the money is pretty meaningless now. The incentive is to push yourself to work at the highest level possible. And promotions will still equal pay rises. Plus there's no reason clubs would pay everyone the same. It would give them some negotiation power.

Although I do think £7k might be a bit low. It is still £360k a year though. 5 years of that take home what, £200k? That's £1m. Average UK wage what? £27k? So take home £20k? That would be somewhere in the ball park of 50 years average salary unless I'e totally ballsed up my maths.

So the can't get other jobs and short career argument is already gone.

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 04 May 2020 20:10

Yeah but come on - to be a champ footballer takes a hell of a lot more effort than a 27k p/a year generally. They are basically employed for the age of 8, deal with all sorts of pressure and disappointments, play in front of 30k knobheads calling your a pcunt and criticising your every move etc

Fine but then ensure every person who is elite in their field only earns that

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