Finance

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Zip
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Re: Finance

by Zip » 07 Apr 2020 14:18

Stranded Need to remember a 40m loss is not necessarily a 40m FFP loss. That should be considerably less.


Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.

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Re: Finance

by Stranded » 07 Apr 2020 14:22

Zip
Stranded Need to remember a 40m loss is not necessarily a 40m FFP loss. That should be considerably less.


Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.


There is quite an extensive list of allowable losses that are not included in the calc - I don't have the full list to hand but these include costs of running a youth academy amongst others

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Re: Finance

by Royals and Racers » 07 Apr 2020 14:23

Nameless
Royals and Racers No London Irish income from next season won`t help- unless there is a deal that they will pay something as compensation for breaking the contract.


I heard Brentford’s ground won’t be ready and so Irish have nowhere to play next season.....

It looks well advanced on the latest timeline video.

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 07 Apr 2020 15:46

We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 07 Apr 2020 15:47

Royals and Racers
Nameless
Royals and Racers No London Irish income from next season won`t help- unless there is a deal that they will pay something as compensation for breaking the contract.


I heard Brentford’s ground won’t be ready and so Irish have nowhere to play next season.....

It looks well advanced on the latest timeline video.


It's been all but finished for months, unless the finer details haven't been completed due to the lockdown?


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Re: Finance

by Hendo » 07 Apr 2020 15:48

One87One We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.


Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 07 Apr 2020 15:54

Hendo
One87One We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.


Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!


He showed promise prior to coming here. Our system clearly didn't suit him. In any case, I'll raise you a Cureton, Kitson, Shorey, Doyle, Long, Sonko...

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Re: Finance

by Hendo » 07 Apr 2020 15:58

One87One
Hendo
One87One We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.


Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!


He showed promise prior to coming here. Our system clearly didn't suit him. In any case, I'll raise you a Cureton, Kitson, Shorey, Doyle, Long, Sonko...


Football is a different game now, the young talents who might've fallen through the academy systems at bigger clubs are now hoarded by them, they will also have wider scouting networks so those that previously got missed won't be missed now. There are fewer and fewer bargains to be had at lower levels, also the L1/L2 clubs will demand so much more money now because they know that Prem/Championship clubs can afford much higher fees for their talented players.

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 07 Apr 2020 16:12

Is it? Someone needs to tell Brentford. They're superb at buying from the lower divisions, just as we were, and when the right player comes along they spend a decent sum of money to add him to their talented and motivated group.


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Re: Finance

by Hendo » 07 Apr 2020 16:26

One87One Is it? Someone needs to tell Brentford. They're superb at buying from the lower divisions, just as we were, and when the right player comes along they spend a decent sum of money to add him to their talented and motivated group.


1 example out of 24 Championship clubs, ok cool.

Also, Brentford are going to be more inclined to do that because they don't have an academy.

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Re: Finance

by The Royal Forester » 07 Apr 2020 16:33

One87One
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Nameless
I heard Brentford’s ground won’t be ready and so Irish have nowhere to play next season.....

It looks well advanced on the latest timeline video.


It's been all but finished for months, unless the finer details haven't been completed due to the lockdown?

A report in The Sun, a week or so ago, said the finishing date has been put back from it's July completion, but didn't say when it would be finished. Maybe it will be ready by the start of next season, whenever that is.

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Re: Finance

by muirinho » 07 Apr 2020 16:38

Zip
Stranded Need to remember a 40m loss is not necessarily a 40m FFP loss. That should be considerably less.


Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.


One thing for FFP is the cost of a players contract is spread over the length of that contract. For instance, if we bought Aluko for 6 million and gave him a 4 year deal, in FFP terms that is 1.5 million (contract) cost per year.

If we then loan him out to China for a season, and charge them 2.5 million for the privilege, that 2.5 million is all in that season. So, assuming he gets paid £1million a year, then in fact he costs us nothing in FFP terms for that year.

IMO what will have to change is the owners attitude to club "assets". We should have let Liam Moore go for whatever they were willing to pay - not given him a fat contract on £30K a week. We should have sold Danny Loader earlier in the season.

We should be less upset at "losing out" on players who go on and do well, if we let them go, and happier we still have a club that can bring through new ones to replace them.

And we should stop changing the manager every 5 minutes, and tell them that barring major injury, they have to make do with whoever they buy in August, and not be going in for expensive loans and purchases in January.

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Re: Finance

by Cape Town Royal » 07 Apr 2020 17:03

Hendo
One87One
Hendo
Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!


He showed promise prior to coming here. Our system clearly didn't suit him. In any case, I'll raise you a Cureton, Kitson, Shorey, Doyle, Long, Sonko...


Football is a different game now, the young talents who might've fallen through the academy systems at bigger clubs are now hoarded by them, they will also have wider scouting networks so those that previously got missed won't be missed now. There are fewer and fewer bargains to be had at lower levels, also the L1/L2 clubs will demand so much more money now because they know that Prem/Championship clubs can afford much higher fees for their talented players.


I think you are largely right but there are players to be had. Before I moved to Japan my local club Exeter had sold 4-5 to the Championship and above in the last 2-3 years.

Storey and Stockley to Preston
Ampadu went to Chelsea
Watkins went to Brentford
and of course our own Jack Stacey went to Southampton..

To this day I cannot believe we never went for Watkins, he looked class whenever I saw him.


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Re: Finance

by Cape Town Royal » 07 Apr 2020 17:04

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One87One
He showed promise prior to coming here. Our system clearly didn't suit him. In any case, I'll raise you a Cureton, Kitson, Shorey, Doyle, Long, Sonko...


Football is a different game now, the young talents who might've fallen through the academy systems at bigger clubs are now hoarded by them, they will also have wider scouting networks so those that previously got missed won't be missed now. There are fewer and fewer bargains to be had at lower levels, also the L1/L2 clubs will demand so much more money now because they know that Prem/Championship clubs can afford much higher fees for their talented players.


I think you are largely right but there are players to be had. Before I moved to Japan my local club Exeter had sold 4-5 to the Championship and above in the last 2-3 years.

Storey and Stockley to Preston
Ampadu went to Chelsea
Watkins went to Brentford
and of course our own Jack Stacey went to Southampton..

To this day I cannot believe we never went for Watkins, he looked class whenever I saw him.


Oh and just before that they sold Grimes to Swansea for £1M but I think they were in the Prem then.

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Re: Finance

by tmesis » 07 Apr 2020 19:25

WestYorksRoyal Are we currently reliant upon our owners to stay afloat? Definitely yes. Could we see a points deduction? Sounds likely. But are we turning a corner and putting this messy era behind us? So long as we can ride out the consequences, undoubtedly yes.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that?

I've seen nothing to suggest we've veered away from our habit of massively overspending on mediocre semi-interested players.

At least Portsmouth and Bolton got several years of extended status out of their stupid overspending. All we got was a visit to the most boring play-off final ever, that we all knew, in our hearts, that we'd lose anyway.

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Re: Finance

by Nameless » 07 Apr 2020 20:15

The Royal Forester
One87One
Royals and Racers It looks well advanced on the latest timeline video.


It's been all but finished for months, unless the finer details haven't been completed due to the lockdown?

A report in The Sun, a week or so ago, said the finishing date has been put back from it's July completion, but didn't say when it would be finished. Maybe it will be ready by the start of next season, whenever that is.



I had heard the Brentford owner had halted work. No idea why, can’t believe he’s run out of money. He has however reduced the spend on it already and taken out quite a lot of facilities that were originally in the plans.
Can’t imagine the current lockdown will be doing anything for progress.

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Re: Finance

by 3points » 07 Apr 2020 21:04

Stranded
Zip
Stranded Need to remember a 40m loss is not necessarily a 40m FFP loss. That should be considerably less.


Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.


There is quite an extensive list of allowable losses that are not included in the calc - I don't have the full list to hand but these include costs of running a youth academy amongst others

That’s correct regarding the academy. It’s generally reckoned a Cat 1 academy costs about £3m (net) a year to run. So it’s only a £27m loss for the season for FFP :D

The loss isn’t £40m. It is £30m.

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Re: Finance

by WestYorksRoyal » 07 Apr 2020 21:23

tmesis
WestYorksRoyal Are we currently reliant upon our owners to stay afloat? Definitely yes. Could we see a points deduction? Sounds likely. But are we turning a corner and putting this messy era behind us? So long as we can ride out the consequences, undoubtedly yes.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you think that?

I've seen nothing to suggest we've veered away from our habit of massively overspending on mediocre semi-interested players.

At least Portsmouth and Bolton got several years of extended status out of their stupid overspending. All we got was a visit to the most boring play-off final ever, that we all knew, in our hearts, that we'd lose anyway.

I mean, the fees for Puscas, Joao and Ejaria are only marginally more than those for Aluko, Bacuna and Ilori, before we even consider the wages comparison. I can understand reservations on the size of fee, but these signings are not remotely comparable.

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Re: Finance

by Zip » 07 Apr 2020 21:32

3points
Stranded
Zip
Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.


There is quite an extensive list of allowable losses that are not included in the calc - I don't have the full list to hand but these include costs of running a youth academy amongst others

That’s correct regarding the academy. It’s generally reckoned a Cat 1 academy costs about £3m (net) a year to run. So it’s only a £27m loss for the season for FFP :D

The loss isn’t £40m. It is £30m.


I think we can crack open the champagne then. To think we have also sold the stadium and training ground too just to only be £40 million down.

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 08 Apr 2020 09:04

Hendo
One87One Is it? Someone needs to tell Brentford. They're superb at buying from the lower divisions, just as we were, and when the right player comes along they spend a decent sum of money to add him to their talented and motivated group.


1 example out of 24 Championship clubs, ok cool.

Also, Brentford are going to be more inclined to do that because they don't have an academy.


One example or not, the model still works. When you look at our infrastructure and academy, we could go back to that model and make a real success of it again. Whether you agree with going back to it or not, we cannot continue on the path we're on, otherwise we wont have a football club for long.

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