Any updates?

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Millsy
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Re: Any updates?

by Millsy » 11 Nov 2020 14:11

Sutekh
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Millsy Lol @ the "40,000 scientists" bullshit.

Reminds me of when I almost became a manmade climate change denier when a 'knowledgable' friend of mine tried to convince me citing the alleged "30,000 climate scientists" petition. Actually being a scientist I researched it, read the paper, the facts etc and it turns out the original paper was fake and the "30,000 scientists" were largely members of public or students who might have had some sort of vaguely science degree in something who were just duped by the official looking paper. And iirc it was backed by... ExxonMobil. All other 'evidence' turned out to be bullshit. Only took me 1 week of research. Which is 7 days more than most people do when reading these bullshit headlines that confirm what they want to believe.

I went from almost being a climate change denier (btw I wanted to believe it because conspiracy theories are cool) to accepting the disappointing and boring scientific consensus that it is happening.

I admittedly haven't researched this "40,000 scientists" but why does it not surprise me what someone says above by it being linked to ExxonMobil somehow.

People who understand and work in science know that it works by consensus and so there will always be outliers. And there will always be people to sign petitions started by (in this case 3) scientists.

What covid has taught us is that many people are largely incredibly stupid, anti-science and easily swayed Dunning-Kruger 'experts' and to me that is almost more dangerous than covid itself.

But yeah. Not for the team board sorry.

For me it falls down at the claim 30,000 scientists support it.

If find the idea that there are 30,000 expert virologists and epidemic experts in the UK rather hard to swallow.


40,000 Worldwide.


Even so.

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Re: Any updates?

by Snowflake Royal » 11 Nov 2020 17:39

Sutekh
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Millsy Lol @ the "40,000 scientists" bullshit.

Reminds me of when I almost became a manmade climate change denier when a 'knowledgable' friend of mine tried to convince me citing the alleged "30,000 climate scientists" petition. Actually being a scientist I researched it, read the paper, the facts etc and it turns out the original paper was fake and the "30,000 scientists" were largely members of public or students who might have had some sort of vaguely science degree in something who were just duped by the official looking paper. And iirc it was backed by... ExxonMobil. All other 'evidence' turned out to be bullshit. Only took me 1 week of research. Which is 7 days more than most people do when reading these bullshit headlines that confirm what they want to believe.

I went from almost being a climate change denier (btw I wanted to believe it because conspiracy theories are cool) to accepting the disappointing and boring scientific consensus that it is happening.

I admittedly haven't researched this "40,000 scientists" but why does it not surprise me what someone says above by it being linked to ExxonMobil somehow.

People who understand and work in science know that it works by consensus and so there will always be outliers. And there will always be people to sign petitions started by (in this case 3) scientists.

What covid has taught us is that many people are largely incredibly stupid, anti-science and easily swayed Dunning-Kruger 'experts' and to me that is almost more dangerous than covid itself.

But yeah. Not for the team board sorry.

For me it falls down at the claim 30,000 scientists support it.

If find the idea that there are 30,000 expert virologists and epidemic experts in the UK rather hard to swallow.


40,000 Worldwide.

Still sounding a number that lacks credibility. It just screams any old sod we can persuade who thinks they might be qualified.

2000 doctors signing up to something seems quite a lot, but reasonable for example.

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 11 Nov 2020 18:34

You know you're making a ridiculously stupid point when Millsy comes across as clued up and smart. Precisely, 40,000 disease experts & scientists. So thats probably 0 disease experts, 0 virologists and 40,000 primary school science teachers who have been given $100 by Exxonmobil to sign a paper.

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Re: Any updates?

by Millsy » 11 Nov 2020 19:35

Jagermesiter1871 You know you're making a ridiculously stupid point when Millsy comes across as clued up and smart.


:lol:

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Re: Any updates?

by Millsy » 11 Nov 2020 19:42

For the record though, no malice from me toward andrew or anyone. I was just making a general point. Some of andrew's points are fair even if I take the other side.

Peace!

And most importantly, come on URZZZZ!!!


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Re: Any updates?

by andrew1957 » 11 Nov 2020 22:41

Jagermesiter1871 You know you're making a ridiculously stupid point when Millsy comes across as clued up and smart. Precisely, 40,000 disease experts & scientists. So thats probably 0 disease experts, 0 virologists and 40,000 primary school science teachers who have been given $100 by Exxonmobil to sign a paper.


Cannot resist biting. Just google”how do I sign the Great Barrington declaration” and you will see now in excess of 660,000 signatures including the best part of 50,000 scientists, medical experts and GPs. I am sure in that number there are a few bogus signatures but there are many verifiable experts and even a Nobel prize winner. Still I am sure you are right and they are all wrong.

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 12 Nov 2020 13:37

andrew1957
Jagermesiter1871 You know you're making a ridiculously stupid point when Millsy comes across as clued up and smart. Precisely, 40,000 disease experts & scientists. So thats probably 0 disease experts, 0 virologists and 40,000 primary school science teachers who have been given $100 by Exxonmobil to sign a paper.


Cannot resist biting. Just google”how do I sign the Great Barrington declaration” and you will see now in excess of 660,000 signatures including the best part of 50,000 scientists, medical experts and GPs. I am sure in that number there are a few bogus signatures but there are many verifiable experts and even a Nobel prize winner. Still I am sure you are right and they are all wrong.


:lol: I've just signed the petition as Dr. Andrew Hobnob a concerned Medical practitioner. The only requirement is a working email address :lol: :roll:

https://gbdeclaration.org/#sign

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 12 Nov 2020 13:39

Just signed it 5 times as Dr Ian Snowflake, a concerned Scientist. I'm very concerned, hence why I signed it 5 times.

Now when does my Exxonmobil cheque arrive?

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Re: Any updates?

by Snowflake Royal » 12 Nov 2020 17:28

Thanks man. I really appreciate you signing me up in a pseudonym multiple times for that cluster oxf*rd of idiocy.

Like genuine stuff from a reliable source gets put up for any old oxf*rd to sign.

Next 5 million llama geologists and weather forecasters have signed a petition to say climate change is fake so we should all burn lots of oil.


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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 12 Nov 2020 18:40

Doesn't even have to be verified llama geologists and weather forecasters, just someone capable of ticking that box and having a working email address. :lol:

I'm really concerned that that paper and the 40,000 definitely Dr's who signed it is the basis for Andrews conspiracy lunacy.

But seriously the genuinely worrying part is the thousands of people who are going to be/have been persuaded to change their behaviours based on a bogus declaration that anyone can sign as a doctor (not to mention the myriad of other conspiracy/antivaxers nonsense going around), and the resultant issues the gov are going to have persuading people to continue to take this virus seriously, let alone take a vaccine.

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Re: Any updates?

by Sutekh » 13 Nov 2020 14:15

Jagermesiter1871 Doesn't even have to be verified llama geologists and weather forecasters, just someone capable of ticking that box and having a working email address. :lol:

I'm really concerned that that paper and the 40,000 definitely Dr's who signed it is the basis for Andrews conspiracy lunacy.

But seriously the genuinely worrying part is the thousands of people who are going to be/have been persuaded to change their behaviours based on a bogus declaration that anyone can sign as a doctor (not to mention the myriad of other conspiracy/antivaxers nonsense going around), and the resultant issues the gov are going to have persuading people to continue to take this virus seriously, let alone take a vaccine.


Really do not understand the intelligence of going to the trouble of creating this “declaration” then putting it online without safeguards where quite obviously it’s going to get abused by people just because they can.

Perhaps there’s a team of people who trawl through it regularly and remove all the bogus names, but at the end of the day it’s all utterly irrelevant really as governments will just ignore it like any other “petition”.

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 13 Nov 2020 18:24

Sutekh
Jagermesiter1871 Doesn't even have to be verified llama geologists and weather forecasters, just someone capable of ticking that box and having a working email address. :lol:

I'm really concerned that that paper and the 40,000 definitely Dr's who signed it is the basis for Andrews conspiracy lunacy.

But seriously the genuinely worrying part is the thousands of people who are going to be/have been persuaded to change their behaviours based on a bogus declaration that anyone can sign as a doctor (not to mention the myriad of other conspiracy/antivaxers nonsense going around), and the resultant issues the gov are going to have persuading people to continue to take this virus seriously, let alone take a vaccine.


Really do not understand the intelligence of going to the trouble of creating this “declaration” then putting it online without safeguards where quite obviously it’s going to get abused by people just because they can.

Perhaps there’s a team of people who trawl through it regularly and remove all the bogus names, but at the end of the day it’s all utterly irrelevant really as governments will just ignore it like any other “petition”.


Because it fuels the whole anti lockdown, anti vaxxer flames and gives all of that persuasion a 'meaningful' document they can point to (i.e Andrew.) and say "see all these 'doctors' and 'scientists' can't be wrong."

It's clearly made by an anti-science/lockdown/vaxxer idiot who wanted to create some sort of legitimacy to aid his conspiracy ramblings and of course there are zero safeguards in place to verify signatories as I would guess there are no actual scientists signing it (maybe a couple of token nut job conspiracy types). Even if they were trying to make a legit go of it, there's no way for them to even verify who a legit doctor or scientist is, as you literally have to give zero credentials.

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 22 Nov 2020 15:48

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The problem is you've just completely ignored the points I've made. There are good options that reduce risks - lockdowns that stop the spread and long suppress the virus is that. Doing nothing kills people and will tank the economy - the two are very much related. The problem with anti-lockdowners is in your mind the country just continues to function as if it was pre-covid. This isn't a reality.

To use your odd anecdote - doing nothing would be blowing the tram up and shooting the family.


I was going to leave it there but as you persist. Re your points.

1/ You ignored my earlier point in this thread that lock down is not the most effective way of reducing transmission. The best way is effective track and trace, isolating those infected and the most vulnerable being supported if they choose to self isolate to reduce their risk. I have not said we should not use common sense, keep distance and in some circumstances wear masks. If you have to have lock downs then local ones make most sense and it seems like these were beginning to work before the Government panicked yet again into an unnecessary England wide one.

Hospitals in the south and south west are mainly quiet as they are not overwhelmed with Covid cases and most other people are steering clear. Contacts in the NHS tell me they are twiddling their thumbs. One nursing assistant in Cornwall publicly resigned last week as she could no longer subscribe to the propaganda that were being told about how busy the NHS was when her experience was that hospitals in the south west were largely empty. Just google "Cornish nurse resigns over covid".

2/ Whether or not long Covid is an issue is just another risk that we all have to take into account. If you are one of the unlucky 1 in 50 or more likely 1 in 500 who is ill for more than 12 weeks that is unfortunate for the people affected but not grounds for shutting down a great deal of the economy.

3/ Typically viruses mutate and become less deadly over time. As far as I am aware the Spanish Flu is the only example of a major epidemic where the second wave was more deadly than the first wave. As for herd immunity this has always worked in the past. This is how Spanish Flu was beaten in around 24 months and it also still seems to be UK Government policy as by keeping schools and colleges open (amongst the most likely major spreaders of the disease) all we are doing is slowing the disease down as we are not completely breaking the transmission as with the first lock-down earlier this year. This will mean taking this route that yet another lock down will almost certainly be needed in February or March to beat off the third wave.

And as for those who think that a vaccine is going to come along and save us all. It normally takes 5 years at least to bring to market a successful vaccine. The big pharma companies are now rushing one through at break neck speed but as I understand it have demanded and been given full immunity from any blame for either immediate or future side effects of such a vaccine. Vaccines are also largely ineffective for the over 70's - who are the most at risk group. Bearing in mind the relatively low risk to anyone aged below 70 the risk of the vaccine could be far greater than the risk of the Covid. I suspect that big pharma are more interested in their profit margins than anything else. Covid is a potential huge cash cow for them as if they get their way we will all have to have both a flu and covid jab every year.


If vaccines are rushed through at break neck speed then I don’t see how they can have been sufficiently tested and the results studied. I presume that full range of possible side effects from receiving ANY NEW DRUG won’t necessarily become clear to the medical profession or pharma for a year or two, maybe even longer, after the drug is given to someone. Out of interest what is the average time for a drug to be tested before going live to the public?


How is a new flu vaccine released every year to combat a different strain and there isn't any furor about it being rushed through?


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Re: Any updates?

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Nov 2020 16:13

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I was going to leave it there but as you persist. Re your points.

1/ You ignored my earlier point in this thread that lock down is not the most effective way of reducing transmission. The best way is effective track and trace, isolating those infected and the most vulnerable being supported if they choose to self isolate to reduce their risk. I have not said we should not use common sense, keep distance and in some circumstances wear masks. If you have to have lock downs then local ones make most sense and it seems like these were beginning to work before the Government panicked yet again into an unnecessary England wide one.

Hospitals in the south and south west are mainly quiet as they are not overwhelmed with Covid cases and most other people are steering clear. Contacts in the NHS tell me they are twiddling their thumbs. One nursing assistant in Cornwall publicly resigned last week as she could no longer subscribe to the propaganda that were being told about how busy the NHS was when her experience was that hospitals in the south west were largely empty. Just google "Cornish nurse resigns over covid".

2/ Whether or not long Covid is an issue is just another risk that we all have to take into account. If you are one of the unlucky 1 in 50 or more likely 1 in 500 who is ill for more than 12 weeks that is unfortunate for the people affected but not grounds for shutting down a great deal of the economy.

3/ Typically viruses mutate and become less deadly over time. As far as I am aware the Spanish Flu is the only example of a major epidemic where the second wave was more deadly than the first wave. As for herd immunity this has always worked in the past. This is how Spanish Flu was beaten in around 24 months and it also still seems to be UK Government policy as by keeping schools and colleges open (amongst the most likely major spreaders of the disease) all we are doing is slowing the disease down as we are not completely breaking the transmission as with the first lock-down earlier this year. This will mean taking this route that yet another lock down will almost certainly be needed in February or March to beat off the third wave.

And as for those who think that a vaccine is going to come along and save us all. It normally takes 5 years at least to bring to market a successful vaccine. The big pharma companies are now rushing one through at break neck speed but as I understand it have demanded and been given full immunity from any blame for either immediate or future side effects of such a vaccine. Vaccines are also largely ineffective for the over 70's - who are the most at risk group. Bearing in mind the relatively low risk to anyone aged below 70 the risk of the vaccine could be far greater than the risk of the Covid. I suspect that big pharma are more interested in their profit margins than anything else. Covid is a potential huge cash cow for them as if they get their way we will all have to have both a flu and covid jab every year.


If vaccines are rushed through at break neck speed then I don’t see how they can have been sufficiently tested and the results studied. I presume that full range of possible side effects from receiving ANY NEW DRUG won’t necessarily become clear to the medical profession or pharma for a year or two, maybe even longer, after the drug is given to someone. Out of interest what is the average time for a drug to be tested before going live to the public?


How is a new flu vaccine released every year to combat a different strain and there isn't any furor about it being rushed through?

Because they aren't rushed through?

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 22 Nov 2020 18:29

Snowflake Royal
Jagermesiter1871
Sutekh
If vaccines are rushed through at break neck speed then I don’t see how they can have been sufficiently tested and the results studied. I presume that full range of possible side effects from receiving ANY NEW DRUG won’t necessarily become clear to the medical profession or pharma for a year or two, maybe even longer, after the drug is given to someone. Out of interest what is the average time for a drug to be tested before going live to the public?


How is a new flu vaccine released every year to combat a different strain and there isn't any furor about it being rushed through?

Because they aren't rushed through?


Precisely. So why are these vaccines any different when it's simply a derivative of a vaccine for a different coronavirus?

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Re: Any updates?

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Nov 2020 22:24

Jagermesiter1871
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How is a new flu vaccine released every year to combat a different strain and there isn't any furor about it being rushed through?

Because they aren't rushed through?


Precisely. So why are these vaccines any different when it's simply a derivative of a vaccine for a different coronavirus?

Maybe you should ask the question on AE, where it's on topic and we have someone who understands vaccine's and viruses.

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Re: Any updates?

by leon » 23 Nov 2020 00:59

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal Because they aren't rushed through?


Precisely. So why are these vaccines any different when it's simply a derivative of a vaccine for a different coronavirus?

Maybe you should ask the question on AE, where it's on topic and we have someone who understands vaccine's and viruses.


Maybe he should. Maybe he doesn’t frequent AE so wouldn’t know what’s “on topic”.

Jesus Ian, you really don’t help yourself. There’s a reason people think you’re a twat and it’s right there quoted.

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Re: Any updates?

by Sebastian the Red » 26 Nov 2020 10:21

Hi guys, thanks for all your hard work on this thread.

How's the football going?

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Re: Any updates?

by Wax Jacket » 26 Nov 2020 10:31

:lol:

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Re: Any updates?

by Jagermesiter1871 » 26 Nov 2020 10:42

In fairness Andrew did fcuk this thread by posting some Illuminati new world order conspiracy bs and someone had to call him out.

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