BFTT Bournemouth

URZZZZ
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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by URZZZZ » 22 Nov 2020 23:29

Holmes at RB is OK if you’re looking to snatch a 1-0 or hold them out

But whilst he did get the assist against Watford, I feel there’s a distinct lack of presence offensively at RB when he’s played there. Arguably our three least creative games this season have been Watford, Boro and Wycombe (certainly the first 60 minutes) which coincided with his spell there at RB

Obviously by the same token that’s three games there and three clean sheets too, and he’s a better option at this point than Esteves who’s giving away goals and low in confidence (Millwall A is hardly the place to regain confidence) but still wary of Holmes as a RB (certainly for the longer term depending on Yiadom and Araruna)

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by CountryRoyal » 22 Nov 2020 23:54

URZZZZ Holmes at RB is OK if you’re looking to snatch a 1-0 or hold them out

But whilst he did get the assist against Watford, I feel there’s a distinct lack of presence offensively at RB when he’s played there. Arguably our three least creative games this season have been Watford, Boro and Wycombe (certainly the first 60 minutes) which coincided with his spell there at RB

Obviously by the same token that’s three games there and three clean sheets too, and he’s a better option at this point than Esteves who’s giving away goals and low in confidence (Millwall A is hardly the place to regain confidence) but still wary of Holmes as a RB (certainly for the longer term depending on Yiadom and Araruna)


Esteves has contributed jack all going forward as well tbf, and quite frankly I think we need to focus on the defence first. Think I've seen something that in the last 5 games we've conceded the most goals in the entire league. The football league.

Get Holmes in, get harder to beat, build from the back and go from there.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by leon » 23 Nov 2020 00:24

Yep. Got to stop conceding all those goals. It’s fcuking ridiculous.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Nov 2020 07:38

Yep we've got more than enough creative players to score goals without Esteves.

We're not going to win anything conceding 3+ every game.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Hound » 23 Nov 2020 08:59

Esteves isnt creating going forward atm either. Think its partly a confidence thing but he is playing it safe

I'd happily bring him back in a few games time, but feels like Holmes is a good fit for the Millwall game and then we can go from there.


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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by paultheroyal » 23 Nov 2020 09:31

Snowflake Royal Yep, Stacey really is excellent. Wonder which idiots let him go.


Same ones who let Antonio go no doubt, oh and Jake Cooper.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Mid Sussex Royal » 23 Nov 2020 09:56

paultheroyal
Snowflake Royal Yep, Stacey really is excellent. Wonder which idiots let him go.


Same ones who let Antonio go no doubt, oh and Jake Cooper.


I can understand Cooper and Antonio to an extent, they were both well down the pecking order and needed first team football.

We had way better wide options than Antonio at the time and Cooper didn't fit in with how Stam wanted to play, and to be fair we finished 3rd that season

Weren't many grumbles on this forum either at the time

Stacey different story altogether though

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by paultheroyal » 23 Nov 2020 10:04

Mid Sussex Royal
paultheroyal
Snowflake Royal Yep, Stacey really is excellent. Wonder which idiots let him go.


Same ones who let Antonio go no doubt, oh and Jake Cooper.


I can understand Cooper and Antonio to an extent, they were both well down the pecking order and needed first team football.

We had way better wide options than Antonio at the time and Cooper didn't fit in with how Stam wanted to play, and to be fair we finished 3rd that season

Weren't many grumbles on this forum either at the time

Stacey different story altogether though


trust me - their were grumbles :wink:

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by tidus_mi2 » 23 Nov 2020 10:17

I agree about getting Holmes in, since Esteves came in we have only kept one clean sheet, the 3-0 win over Rotherham, since then as has already been mentioned, we've conceded the most goals in the football league. I think it can't be understated how well Meite tracks back as well, I think going from Holmes + Meite to Esteves + Aluko has just been a disaster and has left us so defensively fragile down that side.

If we have Meite back we could definitely play Esteves at RB but if he's not back we've got to stick Holmes there, our losing streak has coincided with both Esteves starting at RB and Meite being out, Moore also getting injured didn't help at all but despite Moore being back we still shipped 4 on Saturday, albeit to a very good Bournemouth side.


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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Hound » 23 Nov 2020 10:54

yes absolutely on Meite. He is a beast at getting back and helping out. Its possibly the one reason I'd consider keeping Esteves in to see how he gets on with him in front of him

Mentioned elsewhere that Richards was ace, but having Ovie in front of him helped loads. Similarly to Meite he gets back and defends very well

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leon
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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by leon » 23 Nov 2020 11:20

Kind of missing the point everyone blaming an 18 year old for our diabolical form. The team needs to take responsibility. Every player has been substandard.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Zammo » 23 Nov 2020 11:35

No one was saying anything derogatory at half-time (for obvs reasons), so I'm laying the blame squarely at the manager's door for this one.

Game management.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Nov 2020 11:53

leon Kind of missing the point everyone blaming an 18 year old for our diabolical form. The team needs to take responsibility. Every player has been substandard.

Of course it's a whole team thing.

And Rafael is getting plenty of stick too.

Of the four goals we conceded there were two clear individual errors and those were keeper and RB. And it's far from the first error leading to a goal from either.

It's unlikely to be a coincidence that we've started shipping loads of goals since Esteves has come in. He's got no positional discipline.

Holmes didn't look convincing at RB, but he did show he can do the defensive work in the position. Which is what we miss.


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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Old Man Andrews » 23 Nov 2020 11:57

Shocked you haven't offered up Tennai Watson as a RB solution.........

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by SCIAG » 23 Nov 2020 12:00

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Snowflake Royal Yep, Stacey really is excellent. Wonder which idiots let him go.


Same ones who let Antonio go no doubt, oh and Jake Cooper.


I can understand Cooper and Antonio to an extent, they were both well down the pecking order and needed first team football.

We had way better wide options than Antonio at the time and Cooper didn't fit in with how Stam wanted to play, and to be fair we finished 3rd that season

Weren't many grumbles on this forum either at the time

Stacey different story altogether though

Antonio and Cooper weren’t up to the standard we required (although Cooper was absolutely suited to the way Stam played, it is the way he’d been playing his whole career).

Stacey probably was up to the standard, but McCleary and Beerens were both in great form, Meite was very promising (although sent out on loan), Harriott was good, and we’d just signed Popa and Barrow. In hindsight, we were right to add Barrow and Meite but Popa was a flop, Harriott was no better than Stacey and Fosu, and Beerens and McCleary were never the same again. Stacey could have been back-up to Gunter but that wouldn’t have led to many starts. Maybe choosing Barrow, Meite, Stacey and Fosu as our wingers and Stacey also as second choice right back would have worked - but it would have been extremely bold to get rid of McCleary and Beerens after the play off final.

Constant managerial turnover is a really mixed bag for young players. It can shake things up and give players a chance they wouldn’t otherwise have got (think of Scott Davies, Liam Kelly, Tennai Watson, Josh Barrett) but can also mean that a promising player doesn’t get the chances they deserve. When Stam came in he fell in love with Kelly and Watson and some of the younger centre backs, but wasn’t enamoured with Stacey, Fosu, Kuhl, Tanner, etc. Fortunately for him, two of those had their careers destroyed by injury but two of them have proven themselves perfectly capable.

So yeah, Stam was the idiot who let Stacey go. Antonio was McDermott. Simon Cox was Coppell. Sometimes it happens.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Norfolk Royal » 23 Nov 2020 12:09

Seen a few criticisms of Moore's part in their fourth goal. Don't think he was at fault really. Only thing you could say is that he should have ignored Cabral and hoofed it into the stand but then everyone would have asked why he did that.

Think he was right to stand back a bit once the keeper was on it as the ball might have broken and he could have cleared up rather than diving in and maybe both of them getting gubbed.

He no doubt expected the keeper to blast it away not start playing keepy uppy.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Nov 2020 12:41

Norfolk Royal Seen a few criticisms of Moore's part in their fourth goal. Don't think he was at fault really. Only thing you could say is that he should have ignored Cabral and hoofed it into the stand but then everyone would have asked why he did that.

Think he was right to stand back a bit once the keeper was on it as the ball might have broken and he could have cleared up rather than diving in and maybe both of them getting gubbed.

He no doubt expected the keeper to blast it away not start playing keepy uppy.

Yeah, only thing he could do is position himself to have a chance to intervene if the ball breaks loose.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by Forty » 23 Nov 2020 13:35

Old Man Andrews Shocked you haven't offered up Tennai Watson as a RB solution.........



Must be given a go, surely.

- were definitely grumbles about Antonio, Stacey, Cooper and Dickie, Tish, Kelly

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by SCIAG » 23 Nov 2020 13:39

Tshibola was sold to a bigger club for a good fee at a time when we were short of money, slightly different to the others.

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Re: BFTT Bournemouth

by URZZZZ » 23 Nov 2020 14:29

SCIAG
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Same ones who let Antonio go no doubt, oh and Jake Cooper.


I can understand Cooper and Antonio to an extent, they were both well down the pecking order and needed first team football.

We had way better wide options than Antonio at the time and Cooper didn't fit in with how Stam wanted to play, and to be fair we finished 3rd that season

Weren't many grumbles on this forum either at the time

Stacey different story altogether though

Antonio and Cooper weren’t up to the standard we required (although Cooper was absolutely suited to the way Stam played, it is the way he’d been playing his whole career).

Stacey probably was up to the standard, but McCleary and Beerens were both in great form, Meite was very promising (although sent out on loan), Harriott was good, and we’d just signed Popa and Barrow. In hindsight, we were right to add Barrow and Meite but Popa was a flop, Harriott was no better than Stacey and Fosu, and Beerens and McCleary were never the same again. Stacey could have been back-up to Gunter but that wouldn’t have led to many starts. Maybe choosing Barrow, Meite, Stacey and Fosu as our wingers and Stacey also as second choice right back would have worked - but it would have been extremely bold to get rid of McCleary and Beerens after the play off final.

Constant managerial turnover is a really mixed bag for young players. It can shake things up and give players a chance they wouldn’t otherwise have got (think of Scott Davies, Liam Kelly, Tennai Watson, Josh Barrett) but can also mean that a promising player doesn’t get the chances they deserve. When Stam came in he fell in love with Kelly and Watson and some of the younger centre backs, but wasn’t enamoured with Stacey, Fosu, Kuhl, Tanner, etc. Fortunately for him, two of those had their careers destroyed by injury but two of them have proven themselves perfectly capable.

So yeah, Stam was the idiot who let Stacey go. Antonio was McDermott. Simon Cox was Coppell. Sometimes it happens.


Mostly this

In hindsight, I’d have fancied Stacey to have been given a run at RB in Stam’s second season given Gunter spent the season at LB to cover Blackett’s horror run of form. But football doesn’t work in hindsight

What’s important is to remember is that he’d just come off a loan at a L2 side and whilst he was solid there, he still didn’t stand out remarkably. We’d just finished 3rd and he wanted regular game time. Given all that, there’s no way we could guarantee him that and at that time, there wasn’t anywhere near enough evidence to suggest he should have been playing

Take Kelly for example. It’s clear he has some form of talent. But he’s ended up at Oxford (struggling L1 side). You could perhaps argue if Stam didn’t take such a interest on him, he’d have dropped to L1/L2 level quicker (rather than going from the conference to the champ), he wouldn’t have got too big for his boots and he may have had the career that others like Stacey, Cooper and Antonio are having (and Dickie)

That’s the crux of it. No one knows what’s going to happen. Not a single person can say Stacey would have had the career he’s having if he stayed at us

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