Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Hound » 15 Jun 2021 11:01

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Elm Park Kid You do have to acknowledge just how insane the Championship is and the levels of spending involved. There is no 'sensible' way of turning a club like Reading into promotion candidates. Either you throw a ton of money over a few seasons and hope you get promoted before FFP hits or you basically just roll the dice by signing untested players.

Anyone who says that there is a guaranteed 'smart' way of doing it is basically saying that everyone involved in Championship football are idiots who choose to waste hundreds of millions of pounds. Ok, our wage to revenue is ridiculous, but our wages themselves are perfectly reasonable and our losses are nothing special in the league. And sure, there are examples of clubs who get promoted without the crazy salaries, but, like I said, it's just a gamble which teams manage that and which get relegated.

Brentford have literally just been promoted through good scouting, sensible signings and knowing when to sell up.


Which is absolutely the model, the "problem" is if/when more clubs move to follow it, then you likely have a lot more clubs uncovering similar players, so the pool of players who are good enough and available at a decent price gets smaller as there are more vultures circling - it also becomes harder to sell on to bigger clubs at high fees as there is a bigger pool for them to choose from across the board.

A club has to find a way to do something just that little bit different, it may as simple as focussing on a region that no-one else is - which may well see us focus on the smaller South American leagues this summer hence the rumour about the Columbian guy. Of course that then leads to some fans bemoaning those signing as cheapskate or lacking ambition but it will always be thus,


Brentford have spent years and years getting their approach right, and fair play to them. They do it, they do it very well and have committed to it. Its very simple to say follow the Brentford model, but it really aint that simple. Brentford have actually spent an absolute wedge in the last few years, but have been able to cover and more by making very good sales

Many other clubs have successfully bought their way to promotion to be fair.

i actually think where we are now is about right. Look to pick up some good loans, players with sell on value, whilst looking for good free transfers. Done that for a few years to be honest, just the big millstone of the Gourlay years been hanging over us. The awful accounts are a hangover of those years rather than our current approach

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 15 Jun 2021 12:45

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tidus_mi2 Brentford have literally just been promoted through good scouting, sensible signings and knowing when to sell up.


Which is absolutely the model, the "problem" is if/when more clubs move to follow it, then you likely have a lot more clubs uncovering similar players, so the pool of players who are good enough and available at a decent price gets smaller as there are more vultures circling - it also becomes harder to sell on to bigger clubs at high fees as there is a bigger pool for them to choose from across the board.

A club has to find a way to do something just that little bit different, it may as simple as focussing on a region that no-one else is - which may well see us focus on the smaller South American leagues this summer hence the rumour about the Columbian guy. Of course that then leads to some fans bemoaning those signing as cheapskate or lacking ambition but it will always be thus,


Brentford have spent years and years getting their approach right, and fair play to them. They do it, they do it very well and have committed to it. Its very simple to say follow the Brentford model, but it really aint that simple. Brentford have actually spent an absolute wedge in the last few years, but have been able to cover and more by making very good sales

Many other clubs have successfully bought their way to promotion to be fair.

i actually think where we are now is about right. Look to pick up some good loans, players with sell on value, whilst looking for good free transfers. Done that for a few years to be honest, just the big millstone of the Gourlay years been hanging over us. The awful accounts are a hangover of those years rather than our current approach

To an extent, but the last accounts show 211% income on wages. Yes there's two seasons of losing McCleary, Gunter, Obita, Blackett, Aluko and Baldock in there.

But that isn't going to take us to 100% let alone the 80% that's reasonably healthy.

If the next figures are less than 150% I'll be amazed.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Nameless » 15 Jun 2021 13:24

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I think, Nameless, the point that myself & Snowflake have tried to make here is that Dai doesn’t seem to care too much about the club being as profitable as possible…hence paying for the shirt sponsor. Of course it’s madness that he would actually do that in reality, but he’s shown himself as not giving a toss about the clubs finances to date


OF course he doesn’t care about it being profitable because football clubs aren’t profitable. If he decided he was going to try and run it at a profit there’s would be uproar from the fans as ticket prices rocketed, players were shipped out on a regular basis etc etc etc. He chooses to fund the running of the club, it’s his pocket which carries the losses to date and if he wants to stick a few million in the kitty and keep Liam Moore then as owner that’s his call. Under Gourlay we made some shocking decisions financially but thankfully those days are long gone and the evidence is he seems pretty keen on getting the club back into some kind of sensible shape.
Those who routinely slate him off (like those who slated Madejski) fail to acknowledge the many good things they both did and continue to do. The quip about paying a short sponsor just doesn’t make sense.


I don’t think Dai is guilt-free when it comes to shocking decisions either though. Loader springs to mind


What do you know about the Loader situation ?

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Hound » 15 Jun 2021 13:31

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Which is absolutely the model, the "problem" is if/when more clubs move to follow it, then you likely have a lot more clubs uncovering similar players, so the pool of players who are good enough and available at a decent price gets smaller as there are more vultures circling - it also becomes harder to sell on to bigger clubs at high fees as there is a bigger pool for them to choose from across the board.

A club has to find a way to do something just that little bit different, it may as simple as focussing on a region that no-one else is - which may well see us focus on the smaller South American leagues this summer hence the rumour about the Columbian guy. Of course that then leads to some fans bemoaning those signing as cheapskate or lacking ambition but it will always be thus,


Brentford have spent years and years getting their approach right, and fair play to them. They do it, they do it very well and have committed to it. Its very simple to say follow the Brentford model, but it really aint that simple. Brentford have actually spent an absolute wedge in the last few years, but have been able to cover and more by making very good sales

Many other clubs have successfully bought their way to promotion to be fair.

i actually think where we are now is about right. Look to pick up some good loans, players with sell on value, whilst looking for good free transfers. Done that for a few years to be honest, just the big millstone of the Gourlay years been hanging over us. The awful accounts are a hangover of those years rather than our current approach

To an extent, but the last accounts show 211% income on wages. Yes there's two seasons of losing McCleary, Gunter, Obita, Blackett, Aluko and Baldock in there.

But that isn't going to take us to 100% let alone the 80% that's reasonably healthy.

If the next figures are less than 150% I'll be amazed.


yeah will be interesting on the wages in next seasons accounts (for the season just gone)

Guessing those mentioned were all on 20kish. genuinely could be close to 150k a week with the players we've moved on in the last 2 years. Trying to think of dates, but would the last set of accounts also had the likes of Bacuna and Bod in there?

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 15 Jun 2021 17:34

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Brentford have spent years and years getting their approach right, and fair play to them. They do it, they do it very well and have committed to it. Its very simple to say follow the Brentford model, but it really aint that simple. Brentford have actually spent an absolute wedge in the last few years, but have been able to cover and more by making very good sales

Many other clubs have successfully bought their way to promotion to be fair.

i actually think where we are now is about right. Look to pick up some good loans, players with sell on value, whilst looking for good free transfers. Done that for a few years to be honest, just the big millstone of the Gourlay years been hanging over us. The awful accounts are a hangover of those years rather than our current approach

To an extent, but the last accounts show 211% income on wages. Yes there's two seasons of losing McCleary, Gunter, Obita, Blackett, Aluko and Baldock in there.

But that isn't going to take us to 100% let alone the 80% that's reasonably healthy.

If the next figures are less than 150% I'll be amazed.


yeah will be interesting on the wages in next seasons accounts (for the season just gone)

Guessing those mentioned were all on 20kish. genuinely could be close to 150k a week with the players we've moved on in the last 2 years. Trying to think of dates, but would the last set of accounts also had the likes of Bacuna and Bod in there?

No, pretty sure it's for McCleary and Gunter's last season.

Which essentially means it got worse after we let Bacuna go and after our first soft embargo :shock:

Which is why I have such little faith things are going to be significantly better going into next season.

Although of course the usual suspects said the players who went that season would solve the wage problem, as they say every year.


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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by linkenholtroyal » 16 Jun 2021 10:37

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Snowflake Royal To an extent, but the last accounts show 211% income on wages. Yes there's two seasons of losing McCleary, Gunter, Obita, Blackett, Aluko and Baldock in there.

But that isn't going to take us to 100% let alone the 80% that's reasonably healthy.

If the next figures are less than 150% I'll be amazed.


yeah will be interesting on the wages in next seasons accounts (for the season just gone)

Guessing those mentioned were all on 20kish. genuinely could be close to 150k a week with the players we've moved on in the last 2 years. Trying to think of dates, but would the last set of accounts also had the likes of Bacuna and Bod in there?

No, pretty sure it's for McCleary and Gunter's last season.

Which essentially means it got worse after we let Bacuna go and after our first soft embargo :shock:

Which is why I have such little faith things are going to be significantly better going into next season.

Although of course the usual suspects said the players who went that season would solve the wage problem, as they say every year.

It was reported also somewhere Popa was on 35k pw and we also had Barrow and Mannone who were also on 20k plus a week and also Blackett and Obita released both probably on 15k per week. That’s roughly 105k per week lost aswell as Mccleary and Gunter.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 16 Jun 2021 11:46

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yeah will be interesting on the wages in next seasons accounts (for the season just gone)

Guessing those mentioned were all on 20kish. genuinely could be close to 150k a week with the players we've moved on in the last 2 years. Trying to think of dates, but would the last set of accounts also had the likes of Bacuna and Bod in there?

No, pretty sure it's for McCleary and Gunter's last season.

Which essentially means it got worse after we let Bacuna go and after our first soft embargo :shock:

Which is why I have such little faith things are going to be significantly better going into next season.

Although of course the usual suspects said the players who went that season would solve the wage problem, as they say every year.

It was reported also somewhere Popa was on 35k pw and we also had Barrow and Mannone who were also on 20k plus a week and also Blackett and Obita released both probably on 15k per week. That’s roughly 105k per week lost aswell as Mccleary and Gunter.

If Popa was on £35k a week we deserve to be kicked out the league a folded right now.

Don't believe it for a second. Half that, at a push, maybe. He came from the Romanian league ffs, we'd probably been giving him a big pay rise at £15k.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by From Despair To Where? » 16 Jun 2021 13:20

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yeah will be interesting on the wages in next seasons accounts (for the season just gone)

Guessing those mentioned were all on 20kish. genuinely could be close to 150k a week with the players we've moved on in the last 2 years. Trying to think of dates, but would the last set of accounts also had the likes of Bacuna and Bod in there?

No, pretty sure it's for McCleary and Gunter's last season.

Which essentially means it got worse after we let Bacuna go and after our first soft embargo :shock:

Which is why I have such little faith things are going to be significantly better going into next season.

Although of course the usual suspects said the players who went that season would solve the wage problem, as they say every year.

It was reported also somewhere Popa was on 35k pw and we also had Barrow and Mannone who were also on 20k plus a week and also Blackett and Obita released both probably on 15k per week. That’s roughly 105k per week lost aswell as Mccleary and Gunter.


The point is though, when you're losing close to £20m a year, getting rid of Popa, McCLeary, Mannone, Blackett and Obita, even if they are earning those levels, which is extremely doubtful in all cases it is still only shifting about £5m a year. Add Gunter and Barrow and its still only accounts for a third of what you're losing each season.

So you shift 7 of the higher earners and you're still on the cusp of blowing the £13m a year losses allowed under FFP and that's before you even start signing new players or negotiating new contracts with existing players. Throw in a year of having 80% of your revenue vanishing into thin air and you're still up shit creek.

What was it again? £42m losses for the last financial year? Basically the club is still costing about £1m a week to run. Kind of puts £105k a week in saved wages into perspective, especially when your wage bill was 211% of income, which suggests income in a normal season is somewhere in the region of £300k-400k a week.

Have to say, I completely agree with Ian's analysis of the situation and it's certainly a closer fit to the reality that we are observing. Saving 7m a year is all well and good but when you need to be saving at least £10m a year, it's only a start.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by 3points » 17 Jun 2021 13:19

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Snowflake Royal No, pretty sure it's for McCleary and Gunter's last season.

Which essentially means it got worse after we let Bacuna go and after our first soft embargo :shock:

Which is why I have such little faith things are going to be significantly better going into next season.

Although of course the usual suspects said the players who went that season would solve the wage problem, as they say every year.

It was reported also somewhere Popa was on 35k pw and we also had Barrow and Mannone who were also on 20k plus a week and also Blackett and Obita released both probably on 15k per week. That’s roughly 105k per week lost aswell as Mccleary and Gunter.


The point is though, when you're losing close to £20m a year, getting rid of Popa, McCLeary, Mannone, Blackett and Obita, even if they are earning those levels, which is extremely doubtful in all cases it is still only shifting about £5m a year. Add Gunter and Barrow and its still only accounts for a third of what you're losing each season.

So you shift 7 of the higher earners and you're still on the cusp of blowing the £13m a year losses allowed under FFP and that's before you even start signing new players or negotiating new contracts with existing players. Throw in a year of having 80% of your revenue vanishing into thin air and you're still up shit creek.

What was it again? £42m losses for the last financial year? Basically the club is still costing about £1m a week to run. Kind of puts £105k a week in saved wages into perspective, especially when your wage bill was 211% of income, which suggests income in a normal season is somewhere in the region of £300k-400k a week.

Have to say, I completely agree with Ian's analysis of the situation and it's certainly a closer fit to the reality that we are observing. Saving 7m a year is all well and good but when you need to be saving at least £10m a year, it's only a start.

there are of course two sides to the equation though. Cutting costs is the most obvious (ie player wages) but actually trying to drive up revenue also helps. Whether that's more bums on seats and matchday revenue, or bigger commercial deals such as shirt sponsors. One thing for the season just gone is we did seem to be on Sky every other game - that will definitely have helped increase the TV revenue but in a period where there's no fans in the stadium, last season is likely to have been another annus horriblis despite the clear out of Gunter, etc

The Championship probably needs a wage cap in the near future to help settle it down and re-set the agents' and players' expectations of a realistic wage for the league. But I think it will be impossible to implement something all the time you have the relegated Prem clubs and their enormous legacy wage bills (albeit perhaps there's a clever formula that takes into account their parachute payment revenue as well)


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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by From Despair To Where? » 17 Jun 2021 13:33

Can only find figures from 3 years ago, which is when the current deal was signed but that suggests home teams get £100,000 per game, or the equivalent of 5,000 through the turnstiles.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Stranded » 20 Jun 2021 06:13

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linkenholtroyal It was reported also somewhere Popa was on 35k pw and we also had Barrow and Mannone who were also on 20k plus a week and also Blackett and Obita released both probably on 15k per week. That’s roughly 105k per week lost aswell as Mccleary and Gunter.


The point is though, when you're losing close to £20m a year, getting rid of Popa, McCLeary, Mannone, Blackett and Obita, even if they are earning those levels, which is extremely doubtful in all cases it is still only shifting about £5m a year. Add Gunter and Barrow and its still only accounts for a third of what you're losing each season.

So you shift 7 of the higher earners and you're still on the cusp of blowing the £13m a year losses allowed under FFP and that's before you even start signing new players or negotiating new contracts with existing players. Throw in a year of having 80% of your revenue vanishing into thin air and you're still up shit creek.

What was it again? £42m losses for the last financial year? Basically the club is still costing about £1m a week to run. Kind of puts £105k a week in saved wages into perspective, especially when your wage bill was 211% of income, which suggests income in a normal season is somewhere in the region of £300k-400k a week.

Have to say, I completely agree with Ian's analysis of the situation and it's certainly a closer fit to the reality that we are observing. Saving 7m a year is all well and good but when you need to be saving at least £10m a year, it's only a start.

there are of course two sides to the equation though. Cutting costs is the most obvious (ie player wages) but actually trying to drive up revenue also helps. Whether that's more bums on seats and matchday revenue, or bigger commercial deals such as shirt sponsors. One thing for the season just gone is we did seem to be on Sky every other game - that will definitely have helped increase the TV revenue but in a period where there's no fans in the stadium, last season is likely to have been another annus horriblis despite the clear out of Gunter, etc

The Championship probably needs a wage cap in the near future to help settle it down and re-set the agents' and players' expectations of a realistic wage for the league. But I think it will be impossible to implement something all the time you have the relegated Prem clubs and their enormous legacy wage bills (albeit perhaps there's a clever formula that takes into account their parachute payment revenue as well)


Yeah, whilst a wage cap makes sense I can't see it happening as how do you manage the relegated clubs. Make them fall in line immediately and you'll see clubs have to complete a firesale on relegation. Give them say 2 or 3 seasons to comply and they really will have an unfair advantage.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Zip » 20 Jun 2021 10:56

It’s going to take a number of seasons of financial prudency before our wage levels are reduced to a sensible level. We have made a start but there is a fair way to go. This was supposed to have happened when Gomes took over with a greater reliance on the Academy but then we had the splurge on incomings at end July early August 19.

We will have to make do with free transfers and loan signings for a good while yet and rightly so.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by muirinho » 20 Jun 2021 20:01

Zip It’s going to take a number of seasons of financial prudency before our wage levels are reduced to a sensible level. We have made a start but there is a fair way to go. This was supposed to have happened when Gomes took over with a greater reliance on the Academy but then we had the splurge on incomings at end July early August 19.

We will have to make do with free transfers and loan signings for a good while yet and rightly so.


Indeed. It's not just about the free transfers and loan signings either though, we need to make sure the wages being offered are sensible. Buying a player for £750K and paying him £12K a week for 3 years is better than a freebie we pay £18K a week to.


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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jun 2021 08:31

Spreading the cost further and more evenly into the future has definite benefits right now though.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by muirinho » 21 Jun 2021 08:50

Snowflake Royal Spreading the cost further and more evenly into the future has definite benefits right now though.


Not really. In both the accounting of results and in FFP terms, the cost of the contract is spread over its length anyway. In absolute cash flow terms, yes, but we don't have a problem with cash flow. In any case fees are frequently paid in instalments

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by linkenholtroyal » 21 Jun 2021 09:04

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Zip It’s going to take a number of seasons of financial prudency before our wage levels are reduced to a sensible level. We have made a start but there is a fair way to go. This was supposed to have happened when Gomes took over with a greater reliance on the Academy but then we had the splurge on incomings at end July early August 19.

We will have to make do with free transfers and loan signings for a good while yet and rightly so.


Indeed. It's not just about the free transfers and loan signings either though, we need to make sure the wages being offered are sensible. Buying a player for £750K and paying him £12K a week for 3 years is better than a freebie we pay £18K a week to.


Agreed it is the right talent we should be looking at and the players from the lower leagues who have performed t that level and could do well at our level. make it very bonus based as to there contract. defenders amount f clean sheets, midfielders dependant on there role but maybe assists and goals for a forward.
We do need to be on it though as the talent will be gone before we get there at this rate.

I would like us to sign-
Siriki Dembele- Free Transfer - scored 13 goals last season in a very good Peterborough side would be a real coup. plays wide or up front a bit like Yakou Meite.
Connor Oglivie - Free transfer - consistant LB that can get forward played over 30 games a season for Gillingham and would give someone for that position
Ryan WIntle - Free Transfer - From Crewe really exciting DM and one of there most consistant players for the last 4 years would give cover for Rinhomota and Laurent

you could probably get all 3 of these for 25k per week the same wage as what Baldock was on and give us a squad that would be competitive for next season. Any other player that leaves use a percentage of the sale fee and replace with lower league options.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Nameless » 21 Jun 2021 09:22

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Zip It’s going to take a number of seasons of financial prudency before our wage levels are reduced to a sensible level. We have made a start but there is a fair way to go. This was supposed to have happened when Gomes took over with a greater reliance on the Academy but then we had the splurge on incomings at end July early August 19.

We will have to make do with free transfers and loan signings for a good while yet and rightly so.


Indeed. It's not just about the free transfers and loan signings either though, we need to make sure the wages being offered are sensible. Buying a player for £750K and paying him £12K a week for 3 years is better than a freebie we pay £18K a week to.


Agreed it is the right talent we should be looking at and the players from the lower leagues who have performed t that level and could do well at our level. make it very bonus based as to there contract. defenders amount f clean sheets, midfielders dependant on there role but maybe assists and goals for a forward.
We do need to be on it though as the talent will be gone before we get there at this rate.

I would like us to sign-
Siriki Dembele- Free Transfer - scored 13 goals last season in a very good Peterborough side would be a real coup. plays wide or up front a bit like Yakou Meite.
Connor Oglivie - Free transfer - consistant LB that can get forward played over 30 games a season for Gillingham and would give someone for that position
Ryan WIntle - Free Transfer - From Crewe really exciting DM and one of there most consistant players for the last 4 years would give cover for Rinhomota and Laurent

you could probably get all 3 of these for 25k per week the same wage as what Baldock was on and give us a squad that would be competitive for next season. Any other player that leaves use a percentage of the sale fee and replace with lower league options.


If you have a bonus system like that you breed division and conflict. If defenders are paid for keeping clean sheets then suddenly they are better off not going up for corners but staying back to protect their bonus. Likewise a forward is better off not dropping back to defend but staying on the half way line to earn money from a counter attack.
The incentives should encourage players to work for the team, not emphasise individuals. I would expect players already are on bonuses for points gained, league position etc and those are achieved by scoring goals and not conceding goals....

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jun 2021 12:42

Win bonuses etc would have to be the bigger slice of conditional wages,

I really don't see many players acting like that for a bonus at the cost to the team, and if they do they've pretty much outed themselves as the type of player we don't want in the squad anyway.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Nameless » 21 Jun 2021 15:16

Snowflake Royal Win bonuses etc would have to be the bigger slice of conditional wages,

I really don't see many players acting like that for a bonus at the cost to the team, and if they do they've pretty much outed themselves as the type of player we don't want in the squad anyway.


So forwards don’t argue over penalties because they want to add to their numbers ?

It’s about sending a message. If you start setting bonus payments for individuals rather than the team it’s the wrong emphasis. Incentivise everyone for clean sheets because everyone contributes to a sound defence. Don’t pay your number 9 for goals but not your centre backs because that suggests the goals from set pieces are worth less than the 6 yard poacher goals.
Or give individual bonus targets but pay them into a central fund which then gets divided according to minutes played across the season. Everyone in the team benefits from every achievement, but those who contribute the most get the biggest return.

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Re: Contract situation at end of 2020/21 season.

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Jun 2021 15:42

It's hardly a new thing Nameless. There's no setting of precedent.

And no, you almost never see players arguing about penalties. And the ones you do, possibly not the sort of players you should be keeping in your squad.

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