Dai Yongee and Dayong Pang don't care

[Snowflake Royal]

There's always another owner round the corner.

[tidus_mi2]

There's always another owner round the corner.

Tell that to Bury, tell that to Derby.

[PATRIQT]

Clearly neither give a shit about us. Discuss

You might want to look at how much they've spent before talking such nonsense.

Their biggest problem is the god awful advice they get on how to run the club, and that cnut Kia, who needs to be told where to go! We need a director of football who has experience at this level or higher, who can mediate between owner and manager, and get a scouting structure back in place here which we do not have atm. Everything is through the parasite who is only interested in lining his pockets!

[PATRIQT]

When you put something like £250m into a club to improve facilities and look to make the club a commercially stronger club across all fronts, you can hardly say they don't care, particularly the owners. From a footballing perspective we've wasted a lot of money due to our recruitment not working out, our squad not being able to harmonise correctly as well as the squad being pretty imbalanced of the best part of 3/4 years now.

If our owners walked tomorrow we'd be in far deeper trouble than what Derby are.

100%

[The Green Programme]

When you put something like £250m into a club to improve facilities and look to make the club a commercially stronger club across all fronts, you can hardly say they don't care, particularly the owners. From a footballing perspective we've wasted a lot of money due to our recruitment not working out, our squad not being able to harmonise correctly as well as the squad being pretty imbalanced of the best part of 3/4 years now.

If our owners walked tomorrow we'd be in far deeper trouble than what Derby are.

100%

As with many things in life.

Margins are small and yet the difference between success and failure are huge.

If we’d have gone up via the play offs last season or if Liam Moore’s penalty had gone in….

Villa took the same risks and it paid off.
Imagine if their play off final v Derby had gone the other way?

It didn’t work out that way.

Bournemouth are currently throwing everything at promotion to get up this year. If they don’t they could be in big trouble as they cannot support the wages. They will need a drastic shakedown next season. It is sh4t or bust for them this season.

Our owners made mistakes in the people they hired (all covered elsewhere on HNA))

SJM made a big mistake in bringing the Russians to the Club. If we had been in the championship when they bailed out, without parachute payments etc… it could have been disastrous.

SJM responded and his actions and decisions in bringing in the Thais, literally saved the Club at the time.

Our current owners have been responsible for a lot of good things (all has been covered elsewhere on HNA).

They have made tough decisions recently about the finances (Puscas, Moore, Rafael) which will definitely work out in our favour.

They are responding in a constructive way right now; as they must do to comply with the financial restrictions which are temporary and from which we will emerge stronger, but it will be tough in the short term. This we must learn to accept.

We just need to stay up this year and we can begin the rebuild in the summer.

The recent run has been very tough. We are due some luck with injuries and we need our squad to step up now and with the big earners/under performers mainly gone, things may improve.

Of course our owners care. They were not dishonest with EFL; they negotiated well with the EFL; and are managing the process to bring about a sustainable outcome.

All this during and following a pandemic and empty stadiums.

If they didn’t care they would have dumped our little Club and moved on.

[Snowflake Royal]

There's always another owner round the corner.

Tell that to Bury, tell that to Derby.

Derby have owners lined up. It's ongoing legal action against them that might see new owners liable that is holding things up.

We're far bigger than bury.

[blythspartan]

It’s human nature to have someone or something to blame. I am not enamoured with the owners but they kept the club afloat during a global pandemic and have made positive contributions outside of what we see on football pitch each week.

My frustrations with them are purely based on keeping Pauno in a job but none of us know 100% why he’s still there. They’ve made some mistakes but that’s down to bad advice. I feel that we’re better off with them than without right now and I am sure that they care about the club but currently FFP is restricting their ability to take us to the promised land.

[Gloucesterroyal]

Clearly neither give a shit about us. Discuss

Assume this is a wind up but the owners have put millions into the club and built an amazing Academy/training facility. Their issue is that they have listened to the wrong people and wasted huge amounts of money on the wrong players as a result - but to say they don't care is ridiculous.

If fans get on their backs too much they could walk - as they have with their two other clubs - and then we are screwed.

Yeah, who was it who made the decision to refuse Moore's transfer to Brighton? Dai
Who was it who told Goulay (who had been dallying) to give Moore an improved contract? Dai
Who was it who appointed Gourlay? Dai
Who was it who authorised that godawful announcement about Moore on the website? Dai
Who was it that told Paunovic he couldn't play Moore? Dai
Who was it who won't sack Paunovic? Dai
Who was it who oversaw us spending 200%+ of our income on wages? Dai
Who was it who oversaw the club getting a points deduction? Dai?
Who was it who oversaw three years of transfer embargos? Dai

Can't walk soon enough.

This. Mis management on a huge scale. They gambled with the club and lost. Now they're bored and fed up with their toy.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

There's always another owner round the corner.

Tell that to Bury, tell that to Derby.

Derby have owners lined up. It's ongoing legal action against them that might see new owners liable that is holding things up.

We're far bigger than bury.

As much as there is sentiment in terms of club size, at the end of the day, for any investor, it's a question of "what are you buying?".

Ultimately at Derby, you're buying the name of the club and the players/staff contracted. They don't own their ground and I don't know whether they own their training ground or not, but their assets are pretty minimal and their levels of debt are rising so it just becomes tougher and tougher to bail them out. I don't doubt someone will eventually takeover there, but it's a bigger finance for someone now than what it was back at the start of the season for instance.

Ultimately, we don't own our ground, our training ground and I don't think we even own the surrounding area at the club either (does this still belong to our previous Thai owners or the Dai's?). Not to mention our assets are not massively valued anyway due to 40 odd players being out of contract at the end of this season as well as staff contracts potentially running out as well. Ultimately, we need the Dai's to finance this summer and the next 18 months as that's critical for us. If they want to sell up afterwards once we are on more even footing, that's fine, providing we can find suitable investment.

[Dirk Gently]

They do care, but they care about their investment (in the very loosest sense of the word). They care about getting the prestige that owning a PL football club will bring, so they'll stay for as long as they care about that or think it's possible.

But care about the fans? No, not really. Fans are an irrelevance to what they're aiming to do.

[Snowflake Royal]

Tell that to Bury, tell that to Derby.

Derby have owners lined up. It's ongoing legal action against them that might see new owners liable that is holding things up.

We're far bigger than bury.

As much as there is sentiment in terms of club size, at the end of the day, for any investor, it's a question of "what are you buying?".

Ultimately at Derby, you're buying the name of the club and the players/staff contracted. They don't own their ground and I don't know whether they own their training ground or not, but their assets are pretty minimal and their levels of debt are rising so it just becomes tougher and tougher to bail them out. I don't doubt someone will eventually takeover there, but it's a bigger finance for someone now than what it was back at the start of the season for instance.

Ultimately, we don't own our ground, our training ground and I don't think we even own the surrounding area at the club either (does this still belong to our previous Thai owners or the Dai's?). Not to mention our assets are not massively valued anyway due to 40 odd players being out of contract at the end of this season as well as staff contracts potentially running out as well. Ultimately, we need the Dai's to finance this summer and the next 18 months as that's critical for us. If they want to sell up afterwards once we are on more even footing, that's fine, providing we can find suitable investment.

The same person who owns the club owns that though, so could easily be part of any purchase.

[PATRIQT]

But care about the fans? No, not really. Fans are an irrelevance to what they're aiming to do.

Nonsense. Spurs bring in over £7m per home game because of their fans. Fans are key. They buy tickets, alcohol and food, shirts etc, and it adds up significantly. Where maybe 20 years ago we thought the Sky money was what mattered most, that has since changed. The fans are very important, but in order for us to make decent money, even half that, we need PL football, and we also need a redeveloped stadium. Neither are very far away, but the running of the club atm is undoing everything SJM and the fans worked so hard for.

[Dirk Gently]

But care about the fans? No, not really. Fans are an irrelevance to what they're aiming to do.

Nonsense. Spurs bring in over £7m per home game because of their fans. Fans are key. They buy tickets, alcohol and food, shirts etc, and it adds up significantly. Where maybe 20 years ago we thought the Sky money was what mattered most, that has since changed. The fans are very important, but in order for us to make decent money, even half that, we need PL football, and we also need a redeveloped stadium. Neither are very far away, but the running of the club atm is undoing everything SJM and the fans worked so hard for.

Look at the figures and the income from tickets, shirts etc are minimal compared to the levels of TV money and - especially - the money the chairman has been prepared to put in. I'm not even sure the catering revenue goes to the club - they used to sub-contract it all out to Compass for a fee.

If we sold out every match at an average ticket price of £20 (and that's a massive over-estimate due to concessions and season tickets), that would be £480k (but £384k after VAT). That's £8.3M a season. Compare with the £230M put in by the owner (or rather added as debt) over the past two seasons.

Those reveune streams help, yes - but they're not that significant, and don't be under any illusion that what is being done is for the benefit of the supporters. Rich overseas owners who purchase a football club for the own personal prestige just don't think like that. (Ask Hull and Cardiff supporters, for instance).

[YorkshireRoyal99]

But care about the fans? No, not really. Fans are an irrelevance to what they're aiming to do.

Nonsense. Spurs bring in over £7m per home game because of their fans. Fans are key. They buy tickets, alcohol and food, shirts etc, and it adds up significantly. Where maybe 20 years ago we thought the Sky money was what mattered most, that has since changed. The fans are very important, but in order for us to make decent money, even half that, we need PL football, and we also need a redeveloped stadium. Neither are very far away, but the running of the club atm is undoing everything SJM and the fans worked so hard for.

Look at the figures and the income from tickets, shirts etc are minimal compared to the levels of TV money and - especially - the money the chairman has been prepared to put in. I'm not even sure the catering revenue goes to the club - they used to sub-contract it all out to Compass for a fee.

If we sold out every match at an average ticket price of £20 (and that's a massive over-estimate due to concessions and season tickets), that would be £480k (but £384k after VAT). That's £8.3M a season. Compare with the £230M put in by the owner (or rather added as debt) over the past two seasons.

Those reveune streams help, yes - but they're not that significant, and don't be under any illusion that what is being done is for the benefit of the supporters. Rich overseas owners who purchase a football club for the own personal prestige just don't think like that. (Ask Hull and Cardiff supporters, for instance).

The difference is though that what the club earns through ticket prices, merchandise etc is what supports us in FFP and £8.3m a season isn't ground breaking but at the same time, when you are not permitted to make a loss of ~£39m over 3 seasons, £8.3m x 3 seasons would be £24.9m which would go a long way to ensuring we do not fall over that threshold and that also doesn't include food, drink, merchandise etc which would probably equate to another £5-10m. So it is significant for a club like ourselves whereas the owner is only allowed to put so much money into the club before falling over that threshold as well.

Whether it's done for the benefit of the supporters is an entirely different subject, but having that supports cash flow for the club, because it's the clubs money and not the owners.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Derby have owners lined up. It's ongoing legal action against them that might see new owners liable that is holding things up.

We're far bigger than bury.

As much as there is sentiment in terms of club size, at the end of the day, for any investor, it's a question of "what are you buying?".

Ultimately at Derby, you're buying the name of the club and the players/staff contracted. They don't own their ground and I don't know whether they own their training ground or not, but their assets are pretty minimal and their levels of debt are rising so it just becomes tougher and tougher to bail them out. I don't doubt someone will eventually takeover there, but it's a bigger finance for someone now than what it was back at the start of the season for instance.

Ultimately, we don't own our ground, our training ground and I don't think we even own the surrounding area at the club either (does this still belong to our previous Thai owners or the Dai's?). Not to mention our assets are not massively valued anyway due to 40 odd players being out of contract at the end of this season as well as staff contracts potentially running out as well. Ultimately, we need the Dai's to finance this summer and the next 18 months as that's critical for us. If they want to sell up afterwards once we are on more even footing, that's fine, providing we can find suitable investment.

The same person who owns the club owns that though, so could easily be part of any purchase.

True it could be, but again, it just means purchasing the club for even more money which may prove to be stumbling block and the current owners may not be willing to sell the stadium and the surrounding area as it generates revenue. It's something else that would make any takeover more difficult as that's another source of income diminished somewhat as any new owners would have to pay rent for the stadium most likely. I wouldn't say it's easy because, at the end of the day, the selling party have complete control over what they sell and what they don't sell. If the Dai's want to sell the club but not the ground or surrounding area, that makes any negotiations automatically more difficult.

[linkenholtroyal]

It is leadership from top to bottom that is the problem at the moment and I am not sure how it is going to change.
There is no clear direction from the owner -> A chief exec who has no football background or knowledge in that area being influenced by a man who wants to make money not a successful football club -> No director of football -> A manager out of his depth who cant sign anyone to do what he wants to do (I am not in the Pauno in crowd but remember he has been in an Embargo since he has been at the club)-> A load of flair players that don't fit together that have just had there captain demoted and shipped out of the club.

Something has got to give A good start would be a director of Football who knows the game and can give support to Paunovic if he is here to stay. It is too late now but we also needed a leader who can stay fit in on loan. Dann and Morrison are leaders but neither are going to play all the games till the end of the season. But we desperately need that player that is going to put a hard tack le in on a dreary night at Peterborough in January not flair players that are never fit that never form partnerships because they never play 2 games alongside the same player.

[paultheroyal]

Be very careful what you wish for in terms of slating the owners. Money is off the scale that has been pumped in.

The angst towards them should be around visibility and the appointment of poor people around them. Simple fix if he listened. Get the likes of Coppell and Mcdermott in and job done, fans would be satisfied.

If he pulls the plug, be very fearful of the future.

[linkenholtroyal]

Be very careful what you wish for in terms of slating the owners. Money is off the scale that has been pumped in.

The angst towards them should be around visibility and the appointment of poor people around them. Simple fix if he listened. Get the likes of Coppell and Mcdermott in and job done, fans would be satisfied.

If he pulls the plug, be very fearful of the future.

Agreed it is not the owners that are necessarily the problem it is the structure that has ben put in place below them. Football teams need football minded people to oversee them.

[WestYorksRoyal]

When you put something like £250m into a club to improve facilities and look to make the club a commercially stronger club across all fronts, you can hardly say they don't care, particularly the owners. From a footballing perspective we've wasted a lot of money due to our recruitment not working out, our squad not being able to harmonise correctly as well as the squad being pretty imbalanced of the best part of 3/4 years now.

If our owners walked tomorrow we'd be in far deeper trouble than what Derby are.

100%

Not sure about the comparison with Derby. They owed a secured loan plus lots of money to other clubs. We don't; we only owe the owners who have put in subordinated debt that would come last after all other liabilities were paid.

If the owners walked or simply stopped putting in money, we may rack up debts in player wages and associated HMRC amounts, but this would be small fry for a new owner to settle compared with the amounts Derby owe.

[elrey]

Clearly neither give a shit about us. Discuss

To be honest it's difficult to see what could have been done without putting the club in jeopardy. I think changing the manager as soon as they got in was a bad idea. It might not have worked out either way.

The problem with this club was when a Russia guy bought the club to launder money and spent loads of money on players without a care. The Chinese owners haven't done much wrong, they just bought a club that was destined to go into free fall.

And if relegation happens, then what? Reading should be able to bounce back on a few seasons.

Look at Coventry in 10th, lost their stadium, went through massive hell, and bounced back. We're not a Premier League team, don't have the support for that, I grew up on 3rd division football.