Dai Yongee and Dayong Pang don't care

[tidus_mi2]

A huge part of the defence of previous owners was that we were investing money into the long-term infrastructure of the club such that the season by season fluctuations were far far less important.

Now we have owners who have put in enormous funds into the infrastructure for long-term gain and people are saying they need to go because we're lower down the table short-term than where we'd like to be.

The criticism is understandable to a degree but mostly ridiculous.

One of the reasons the Chinese have grown leaps and bounds compared to stangant/faltering western nations is that they seem to have a much longer term understanding of success. It totally wouldn't surprise me if they don't give a toss about short-term fluctuations down to league one if their longer-term plan is on course. So do they care? Obviously. Do they care about short term issues of Pauno, possible relegation, etc... Possibly not as much.

So genuine question - could we bottom out in 2 - 3 years in L1 or even L2 but rebuild under the current owners with them having learnt their lesson? I'm not sold unless they get a proper management structure in place with a knowledgeable CEO and DoF.

Unless they keep screwing the pooch, that's not going to happen, they've made mistakes and surely will learn from them, they're not babbling idiots, they're billionaires.

[Dirk Gently]

When you put something like £250m into a club to improve facilities and look to make the club a commercially stronger club across all fronts, you can hardly say they don't care, particularly the owners. From a footballing perspective we've wasted a lot of money due to our recruitment not working out, our squad not being able to harmonise correctly as well as the squad being pretty imbalanced of the best part of 3/4 years now.

If our owners walked tomorrow we'd be in far deeper trouble than what Derby are.

If they choose to walk away, without selling; they will have to repay the debt that they have guaranteed; from their own resources.

And then we would have no owners and debt that isn't credited to the Dai's would then stack up and up and up again. Who pays for the stadium, the players, the staff, the training ground etc? If the Dai's walked and wrote off all the debts he owed to the club, that leaves us without an owner and then the club wracking up more debt.

Yes, except we wouldn't be wracking up more debt, because no-one would be prepared to lend us anything, except the PFA who'd pay the players' wages for a short while. But we'd be trading insolvently from the day he walked and would very quickly have to go into administration.

[Millsy]

A huge part of the defence of previous owners was that we were investing money into the long-term infrastructure of the club such that the season by season fluctuations were far far less important.

Now we have owners who have put in enormous funds into the infrastructure for long-term gain and people are saying they need to go because we're lower down the table short-term than where we'd like to be.

The criticism is understandable to a degree but mostly ridiculous.

One of the reasons the Chinese have grown leaps and bounds compared to stangant/faltering western nations is that they seem to have a much longer term understanding of success. It totally wouldn't surprise me if they don't give a toss about short-term fluctuations down to league one if their longer-term plan is on course. So do they care? Obviously. Do they care about short term issues of Pauno, possible relegation, etc... Possibly not as much.

So genuine question - could we bottom out in 2 - 3 years in L1 or even L2 but rebuild under the current owners with them having learnt their lesson? I'm not sold unless they get a proper management structure in place with a knowledgeable CEO and DoF.

Fair post and reasonable question.

While their intention may be good, they do care and have the long-term vision I'm suggesting, it doesn't mean they have got it fully right and I echo the thoughts of most here that they are naively missing bits of the jigsaw as you mention. I'd add to that a decent spokesperson/PR person who's actually active and useful.

I'm sure they're not stupid and will work it out.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I've mentioned it several times, we've had experienced and/or competent CEO's and DoF's in place at our club before now and you can argue our on the field performance was worse than it is now (especially under Clement/Gomes where we were in the bottom 3) despite our current run of results. At the end of the day, it comes down to the decision-makers and where they decide to take their advice from.

Gourlay isn't earning many plaudits here, rightly so, Howe has spent years here during the clubs most successful era and Tevreden was proven to be an astute performer in his role with Stam and co. They are all experienced/knowledgeable enough to perform here, but it didn't work.

[bagman]

Kia

[Millsy]

Kia

[Lower West]

The thing that worries me the most about Dai is the money laundering thing I remember Dai being accused of, he works closely with Kia who also is accused of money laundering and we are obviously spending large sums of this money in small periods of time. If this is true and Dai does get caught by U.K. authorities somehow god knows what it means for us as a club.

Dai is also accountable the Chinese Peoples Party. Jack Ma simply disappeared from his role at Alibaba. Dai lives under the same regime.

[Snowflake Royal]

When you put something like £250m into a club to improve facilities and look to make the club a commercially stronger club across all fronts, you can hardly say they don't care, particularly the owners. From a footballing perspective we've wasted a lot of money due to our recruitment not working out, our squad not being able to harmonise correctly as well as the squad being pretty imbalanced of the best part of 3/4 years now.

If our owners walked tomorrow we'd be in far deeper trouble than what Derby are.

If they choose to walk away, without selling; they will have to repay the debt that they have guaranteed; from their own resources.

And then we would have no owners and debt that isn't credited to the Dai's would then stack up and up and up again. Who pays for the stadium, the players, the staff, the training ground etc? If the Dai's walked and wrote off all the debts he owed to the club, that leaves us without an owner and then the club wracking up more debt.

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

[The Royal Forester]

If they choose to walk away, without selling; they will have to repay the debt that they have guaranteed; from their own resources.

And then we would have no owners and debt that isn't credited to the Dai's would then stack up and up and up again. Who pays for the stadium, the players, the staff, the training ground etc? If the Dai's walked and wrote off all the debts he owed to the club, that leaves us without an owner and then the club wracking up more debt.

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

The Stadium and Training Ground (and Royal Elm Park? I am not sure who owns that though) would not cease to exist if he walked away, he would still own them. I think he has enough readies for the rest to fall through a hole in his pocket.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

If they choose to walk away, without selling; they will have to repay the debt that they have guaranteed; from their own resources.

And then we would have no owners and debt that isn't credited to the Dai's would then stack up and up and up again. Who pays for the stadium, the players, the staff, the training ground etc? If the Dai's walked and wrote off all the debts he owed to the club, that leaves us without an owner and then the club wracking up more debt.

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

[Snowflake Royal]

And then we would have no owners and debt that isn't credited to the Dai's would then stack up and up and up again. Who pays for the stadium, the players, the staff, the training ground etc? If the Dai's walked and wrote off all the debts he owed to the club, that leaves us without an owner and then the club wracking up more debt.

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

And I'm sure Derby and others would have said the same as well. Just out of curiosity, how many clubs since the 2000's have gone into administration and found new owners? Portsmouth and Rangers are the only clubs I can think of and obviously Derby if they find new owners and are not liquidated. I'm not suggesting we wouldn't find new owners as I believe we would, but that's not just the be all and end all. It's not as simple as the Dai's sell, we have new ownership and wash our hands of everything the Dai's have done.

He wouldn't have to sell the ground or training ground, in fact, why would he when it's a source of income for himself? He could sell whatever he wanted to and keep whatever he wanted to and he'd have every right to keep the ground, training ground and surrounding area as it's a source of income. Why they'd want to, who knows, it's not like they aren't mega rich already, but he's well entitled to.

[BarryWhiteRFC]

For me the issue isn't the fact that the owners care, it's the fact they don't have any lines of communication with the fans.

When Madejski was running the club he spoke often and regularly to the media, often about needing to cut the cloth. He set fans expectations and we had at least some idea of what to expect. On and off the pitch. The current owners have no lines of communication with the fans or the media. I know they care, I'm just very frustrated as I have no idea where we stand as a club with everything going on.

Is Pauno on borrowed time or will he be here until the end of the season no matter what? If so, why? How deep is this financial mess we are in? Will we be playing just academy/loan players next year because of this financial mess? What is the plan going forward to pull us out of this mire? I don't know about everyone else, but this is what I want.

[elrey]

Agreed it is not the owners that are necessarily the problem it is the structure that has ben put in place below them. Football teams need football minded people to oversee them.

I think fans should push for a German style system where fans get a 50% say in what goes on at clubs. Really clubs shouldn't have "owners", they should be a community thing, run by the community for the community. They should be focused on getting kids playing sport, focused on providing things for those in the community with a team at the top of that structure that pays its own way.

Yeah, that’ll happen

It'd happen if people put the effort into making it happen. But like anything in the UK, nothing really ever gets done properly. The Germans can do it, but we just shrug and say "well, we're not like them, let's destroy things instead"

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Another concern in the long-term for me is that I hope we don't end up in a situation that Birmingham City fans seem to be suffering now. A club that also had extravagant spending that warranted a points deduction as well as still having some high earners at the club whilst struggling to attract players to the club with debts rising and cost-cutting strategies being applied.

I don't think we would end up in an identical situation, our business plan right now has forced our hand to have 3 of our previous top earners, Moore, Rafael and Puscas, leave the club who will have taken up a significant amount of our total wage bill and will go a long way to making sure we comply with our business plan as well as well as our academy being far better than Birmingham's having churned out some really promising talents over the last decade or so. But I wouldn't want consistent rising debts or cost-cutting strategies to be a factor in how our club is run (and by "cost-cutting", I'm referring to the extreme levels, obviously I'd want us to cut costs where applicable, but not to the point where it hinders us).

[RG30]

For me the issue isn't the fact that the owners care, it's the fact they don't have any lines of communication with the fans.

When Madejski was running the club he spoke often and regularly to the media, often about needing to cut the cloth. He set fans expectations and we had at least some idea of what to expect. On and off the pitch. The current owners have no lines of communication with the fans or the media. I know they care, I'm just very frustrated as I have no idea where we stand as a club with everything going on.

Is Pauno on borrowed time or will he be here until the end of the season no matter what? If so, why? How deep is this financial mess we are in? Will we be playing just academy/loan players next year because of this financial mess? What is the plan going forward to pull us out of this mire? I don't know about everyone else, but this is what I want.

If the owner doesn’t want to speak on record to the media or fans that’s fine, but for me the bigger concern is we never hear anything from the CEO. He’s the guy running the club day to day. And if his English isn’t good enough or he doesn’t want to be misinterpreted, that’s fine get him to talk with an interpreter. That alone would be a basic but good start and would go a long way to improving basic lines of communication.

[SCIAG]

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

Not sure I’d be in a rush to point to Zingarevich as a reason to be optimistic. The Thais found it was too expensive. If - and it is a very big if - the Dais put us into administration then anyone with sense would stay away. Derby are struggling to find a new owner and we’ve have had three sets of owners all fail.

[The Royal Forester]

He can't stop owning the club without selling or winding us up.

Either we have a new owner or cease to exist if he walks away.

If we cease to exist, he loses everything he's put in.

Your argument can't happen.

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

Or it may be easier, or more profitable, to sell the training ground as a Leisure Centre/Sports Complex. The stadium would be harder to sell on, I grant you. Could it become South England's main Speedway track? I know Reading Racers are looking for a new home in the Reading area!

[Snowflake Royal]

Or putting us into administration whilst owning a lot of the assets that the club has a use for, the training ground, the area, the stadium etc. We wouldn't cease to exist if we went into administration, we'd have administrators looking to find proper ownership of the club.

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

Not sure I’d be in a rush to point to Zingarevich as a reason to be optimistic. The Thais found it was too expensive. If - and it is a very big if - the Dais put us into administration then anyone with sense would stay away. Derby are struggling to find a new owner and we’ve have had three sets of owners all fail.

Derby are struggling because of legal action which could make them liable for extra costs mainly. They've got interest.

I didn't say we'd get a good owner.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

And we'd get them. We've found three owners in 10 years. No reason to think we couldn’t find another.

The ground is worth nothing to him without us. There'd be legal challenges to redevelop and its on a rubbish dump.

The training ground could be redeveloped, sure. But it's only just been built, easier to sell it with the club.

Not sure I’d be in a rush to point to Zingarevich as a reason to be optimistic. The Thais found it was too expensive. If - and it is a very big if - the Dais put us into administration then anyone with sense would stay away. Derby are struggling to find a new owner and we’ve have had three sets of owners all fail.

Derby are struggling because of legal action which could make them liable for extra costs mainly. They've got interest.

I didn't say we'd get a good owner.

There is no guarantee we would get any owner though either, which is the point, depending on the state of the club at the time of selling/administration.