Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[Snowflake Royal]

oh FFS

I see Wigan are on minus 8.

Previously suspended 4 points for failing to pay on time applied. Plus 4 more for a 4th offence.

[Hound]

Don’t know why it’s taking them so long to make any decision on it. Pretty rubbish really, stabdard EFL

They must have a template for this kind of offence, should be fairly black and white. When did they make the charge - about a month ago wasnt it?

Do find docking points a weird punishment for delayed payment of wages as it is. Not sure how that helps anything. It’s not ‘cheating’ like breaking ffp is. Players getting a double punishment of not being paid on time then punished again by docking the team points that they’ve earned

Better to ensure money is set aside and if it isn’t the league withhold the payments they give the club instead

[Snowflake Royal]

They'll need to follow a clear procedure.

That will involve gathering all the evidence. Obtaining statements etc. Writing up a case, then providing it to the accused giving them time to seek professional advice and provide a further statement having had sight of all the evidence. Then collate any new information, possibly add any of their own comments. Then transfer it to someone, probably a committee, possibly independent of them/the team investigating to then go through all the papers and make a decision.

That'll then be written up. Checked for accuracy. Then issued.


If you want to be covered in case of legal challenge that you haven't followed procedure, that sort of stuff easily takes weeks, often several months.

As an example, the Teaching Regulation Authority can ake something like 2 years to go from receiving a serious report of teacher wrong doing to the decision to kick them out of the profession.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

oh FFS

I see Wigan are on minus 8.

Previously suspended 4 points for failing to pay on time applied. Plus 4 more for a 4th offence.

They've been late 5 times

First 3 - suspended
4th and 5th occasion 4 points each.

IF we've paid July on time as suggested we're ok if Wigan is used as a precedent.

[3points]

The point about China may be fairly moot. While China Dili is a Chinese listed (public) company, Dai and his family still own around 60% of it. If you look at the actual shareholders and trusts, they are all registered in either the Cayman Island or BVI. If you look at the entities that Dai has used to own RFC and buy assets like the stadium, these are also all registered offshore and not in China.

When I recently looked into the background to the fraud investigation in China against China Dili and Dai, it seemed to me that Dai had lent one of his personal companies (based in Cayman) about 2bn RMB (about £200m) in 2019, which was guaranteed by China Dili (the public company) with China Dili also acquiring a 19% shareholding in the Dai private company (which seems to be the one he orignially set up based on shopping centres, but was sold off in 2013 when it ran into financial difficulties).

Putting 2+2 together, I suspect the £200m loan is what has been used to fund the football club in the past few seasons and I'm guessing that money has now largely dried up. He then doesn't have ready access to large sums of cash elsewhere to get into the club to fund the day to day operations.

My background is working with financially troubled companies and I've seen this fact pattern before with Chinese owned businesses. The club had a similar position when Zinga ran out of cash and borrowed money from Vibrac (which ended up with us very close to administration - Begbis Traynor were lined up as administrators). This "investment" that is being discussed could be something similar and is also akin to what Derby did when Mel Morris decided to stop funding the club and got in third party investors, who then ultimately had to put the club into administration. It may well be the equivalent to a pay day loan. so be careful what you wish for.

[Snowflake Royal]

oh FFS

I see Wigan are on minus 8.

Previously suspended 4 points for failing to pay on time applied. Plus 4 more for a 4th offence.

They've been late 5 times

First 3 - suspended
4th and 5th occasion 4 points each.

IF we've paid July on time as suggested we're ok if Wigan is used as a precedent.

4th was suspended applied and a further investigation and sanction.

[Brogue]

just giving page has had to be set up to fund the women's team
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding ... ingFCWomen

[Hound]

They'll need to follow a clear procedure.

That will involve gathering all the evidence. Obtaining statements etc. Writing up a case, then providing it to the accused giving them time to seek professional advice and provide a further statement having had sight of all the evidence. Then collate any new information, possibly add any of their own comments. Then transfer it to someone, probably a committee, possibly independent of them/the team investigating to then go through all the papers and make a decision.

That'll then be written up. Checked for accuracy. Then issued.


If you want to be covered in case of legal challenge that you haven't followed procedure, that sort of stuff easily takes weeks, often several months.

As an example, the Teaching Regulation Authority can ake something like 2 years to go from receiving a serious report of teacher wrong doing to the decision to kick them out of the profession.

This isn’t a subjective matter though is it? You don’t need to gather information. It’ll take all of 5 mins to find out if we paid wages late 4 times. There shouldn’t be any loopholes on that. It’s black and white, we either paid on time or didn’t and there should be set levels and appropriate sanctions for it

[Hendo]

just giving page has had to be set up to fund the women's team
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding ... ingFCWomen

Not quite sure what £5k is going to achieve.

[NathStPaul]

Will buy them all a nice spa day or something.

[muirinho]

Previously suspended 4 points for failing to pay on time applied. Plus 4 more for a 4th offence.

They've been late 5 times

First 3 - suspended
4th and 5th occasion 4 points each.

IF we've paid July on time as suggested we're ok if Wigan is used as a precedent.

4th was suspended applied and a further investigation and sanction.

Hard to keep up with Wigan honestly.

Failed to pay 3 times June, July, October22. Given suspended sentence of 3 points - that was agreed in January 23

Failed to pay in time in March 23 - suspended 3 points applied (which hit them that season)

Failed to pay in time in May 23 - 4 points deducted for 23/24 season with a further 4 suspended. That extra 4 points would be lifted if 125% of players wages were deposited by third week of May. Edit, It's not clear if they would have got 4 points in May anyway, relating to MArch 23, and the suspended 4 points were for May. i.e., if they hadn't failed to pay in May, would they have got 4 points anyway for March...

Failed to deposit money in time, given extension by EFL, failed to meet extended time. Further 4 points applied (hence -8 points)

So they failed to pay in time on 5 occasions - and kind of 6 occasions, as the second 4 points was for failing in another attempt at paying the late wages in May.

New owners paid up in June, have heard nothing about July so far.

[tidus_mi2]

Alright and how do we know this individual is genuine?

[Brogue]

Alright and how do we know this individual is genuine?

[Pepe the Horseman]

Will buy them all a nice spa day or something.

Lol

[Brogue]

Times up have we paid the bill ?

[blythspartan]

Times up have we paid the bill ?

Nope, we’re back on the EFL list.

[Brogue]

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/embargoes/

ffs

[Stranded]

Next few days are going to be messy as f*ck people.

[blythspartan]

Next few days are going to be messy as f*ck people.

Yes, it looks that way. Just a random question but is Lewis Wing still at the club? There’s suggestions that he won’t be available for the friendly tomorrow.

[Hound]

Ffs what a mess. Obvs no surprise as it’s been strongly rumoured but desperately unhelpful

Atmosphere tomorrow going to be interesting.