Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

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leon
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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by leon » 28 Jul 2023 23:07

Elm Park Kid
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Elm Park Kid There are good commercial reasons (beyond Chinese culture) why the club might have kept quiet. For one, how many of these new signings would have put their name on dotted line if they'd known exactly what trouble we're in? Would the EFL have lifted our embargo? Maybe admitting that we're in a situation where we're guaranteed to not be able to pay bills would just exacerbate things?

Look, I've got no time for people that want to put their heads in the sand. We got relegated to the third tier exclusively due to financial mismanagement and poor ownership of the club. We just lost out on arguably the best manager we could hope to get in the league and our efforts to rebuild for next season have been impacted. We've not paid our staff on time in the past and I heard today that (allegedly) Dai is refusing an EFL demand to put money in a pot to pay future wages. We've missed multiple tax bills and have winding up orders. There's no bedwetting here, no panicking or over-reacting, it's perfectly reason to say that our owners are now a fundamental liability and have lost all right to expect our support. Whether you think protest is a waste of time or not is fair enough, people can do what they want.

Hopefully the owners will get the investment they need soon and these financial issues can be resolved (you really don't need a lot of money in League One to stay out of trouble and it's not like we'd tied down with huge wages or external debts). But, personally, i'm now 'Dai out' regardless.


This is a good post.

Is there a chance that we won’t be able to prove to the EFL that we have enough funds to complete next season?

I was told not to worry this morning, but recent developments are not helping.


No, that's not really a thing. We would probably have to go like a month without fulfilling a fixture before they would take that step, and there's no immediate risk of that. It's not like we have landlords who will lock us out of the stadium if we don't pay the rent, we are still paying the players, the EFL will assume that the worst that can happen is we go into administration and are sold. I honestly don't think anyone needs to worry about the existence of the club - we're too big and appealing, with too little external debt. Someone will buy us.

I mean - people say 'don't worry', but we're basically as bad as things can realistically get. Not even able to make free signings in League One at the moment, let alone pay a fee, winding up orders etc.


Nothing to see here. The smart arses don’t think there’s a problem.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Notts Royal » 29 Jul 2023 00:26

Millsy I know this will be an outlier opinion but I'm going to say it anyway: Dai isn't doing a wonderful job is he?


Well funny you should mention it, but some of the fanbase see Dai as completely innocent in this :x

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Notts Royal » 29 Jul 2023 00:44

Hound Don’t know why it’s taking them so long to make any decision on it. Pretty rubbish really, stabdard EFL

They must have a template for this kind of offence, should be fairly black and white. When did they make the charge - about a month ago wasnt it?

Do find docking points a weird punishment for delayed payment of wages as it is. Not sure how that helps anything. It’s not ‘cheating’ like breaking ffp is. Players getting a double punishment of not being paid on time then punished again by docking the team points that they’ve earned

Better to ensure money is set aside and if it isn’t the league withhold the payments they give the club instead


Agree with this. Should be black and white, and it should be common knowledge what each offence incurs in terms of points, and when they are applied. However, they seem to dish them out whenever they feel like it.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by East Grinstead Royal » 29 Jul 2023 08:59

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East Grinstead Royal Brian Stabler is Finance Director, he should know.


He retired earlier this year.


:mrgreen:


He's still listed as FD on the club's website. :roll:

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by blythspartan » 29 Jul 2023 09:36

Maybe after today’s friendly and the money they get from Royals TV they’ll be able to pay the tax bill.


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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Sutekh » 29 Jul 2023 09:38

East Grinstead Royal
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He retired earlier this year.


:mrgreen:


He's still listed as FD on the club's website. :roll:


You mean the same website that still had Paul Ince listed as first team manager on 1 July 2023?

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Mid Sussex Royal » 29 Jul 2023 10:53

Is there a press conf after the game?

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Lower West » 29 Jul 2023 12:25

Sutekh
East Grinstead Royal
SouthDownsRoyal
:mrgreen:


He's still listed as FD on the club's website. :roll:


You mean the same website that still had Paul Ince listed as first team manager on 1 July 2023?


Another cost saving measure. Or some unpaid bills.......

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Royals and Racers » 29 Jul 2023 12:43

East Grinstead Royal Brian Stabler is Finance Director, he should know.

Now Graham Odell


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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by RG30 » 29 Jul 2023 13:21

East Grinstead Royal
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He retired earlier this year.


:mrgreen:


He's still listed as FD on the club's website. :roll:


Doesn’t it show Kelly Chambers as Women’s Manager? At least it did when I last checked.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by windermereROYAL » 29 Jul 2023 13:25

The team news today will be interesting, if Wing and Savage are missing if could be concerning.
Will Selles be there? it`s not a given.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Elm Park Kid » 29 Jul 2023 13:47

Notts Royal
Hound Don’t know why it’s taking them so long to make any decision on it. Pretty rubbish really, stabdard EFL

They must have a template for this kind of offence, should be fairly black and white. When did they make the charge - about a month ago wasnt it?

Do find docking points a weird punishment for delayed payment of wages as it is. Not sure how that helps anything. It’s not ‘cheating’ like breaking ffp is. Players getting a double punishment of not being paid on time then punished again by docking the team points that they’ve earned

Better to ensure money is set aside and if it isn’t the league withhold the payments they give the club instead


Agree with this. Should be black and white, and it should be common knowledge what each offence incurs in terms of points, and when they are applied. However, they seem to dish them out whenever they feel like it.


The point of punishment is to deter 'bad behaviour' right? The EFL wants to put a disincentive for owners to not pay players/staff properly as a 'tactic' for dealing with financial difficulties. No one forced Dai to spend the money he did last season on loan players and the like - we got relegated anyway, it wouldn't have made any difference if we put out a youth team every match. At least then we'd have had the reserves in our account to pay staff on time. But Dai (or whoever was making decisions) deciding to gamble that we'd be ok to do both - and when we lost that gamble the staff 'suffered'.

Sure, the points deduction doesn't help anything right now. But then sending someone to prison for financial fraud doesn't 'help' anything - but it does send out a message that this is the consequence of making irresponsible decisions. It's an absolute travesty that any club with a £16m income doesn't pay people on time, a disgrace. And the EFL is right to make that clear - if anything the punishment should be significantly harsher.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Hound » 29 Jul 2023 13:56

Fully up for harsh punishment - but feel it should be fines and the suggestion I made rather than points deductions

I feel it’s more of a punishment on the players/fans than those responsible - ie the owners. And it’s not like any advantage is given unlike breaking ffp


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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by windermereROYAL » 29 Jul 2023 14:00

Chelsea were fined £8.6m yesterday for breaching FFP regulations, loose change to them, one rule for the elite and another for the rest of us....

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Hound » 29 Jul 2023 14:01

Anyway we’re now under a new embargo for breaking the owing money to the hmrc for 30 day+ thing

So no transfer or loan fees for 3 windows apparently

Not great news

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by windermereROYAL » 29 Jul 2023 14:02

Savage playing, still no Wing, no Smith either.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Sutekh » 29 Jul 2023 14:07

windermereROYAL Chelsea were fined £8.6m yesterday for breaching FFP regulations, loose change to them, one rule for the elite and another for the rest of us....


Exactly where points deductions should be used, the higher up the pyramid the more meaningless fines become. £8.6m to Chelsea is just loose change from the back of the sofa to them. Should have had 10 points deducted or something drastic to make people take note.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Mid Sussex Royal » 29 Jul 2023 14:19

Hound Anyway we’re now under a new embargo for breaking the owing money to the hmrc for 30 day+ thing

So no transfer or loan fees for 3 windows apparently

Not great news


Pretty much everyone in L1 is in that boat though.

My understanding is we can still sign frees and loans for 6 months if our first team squad is less than 23 players, is that correct?

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Sutekh » 29 Jul 2023 14:27

Mid Sussex Royal
Hound Anyway we’re now under a new embargo for breaking the owing money to the hmrc for 30 day+ thing

So no transfer or loan fees for 3 windows apparently

Not great news


Pretty much everyone in L1 is in that boat though.

My understanding is we can still sign frees and loans for 6 months if our first team squad is less than 23 players, is that correct?


The embargo simply means Reading cannot sign anyone at all until they pay the outstanding HMRC bill. Once it's paid it back to trying to persuade loans and free agents that they want to come and play for this footballing mess.

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Re: another, thants right another embargo for late PAYE payments - a new embargo

by Hound » 29 Jul 2023 14:32

Mid Sussex Royal
Hound Anyway we’re now under a new embargo for breaking the owing money to the hmrc for 30 day+ thing

So no transfer or loan fees for 3 windows apparently

Not great news


Pretty much everyone in L1 is in that boat though.

My understanding is we can still sign frees and loans for 6 months if our first team squad is less than 23 players, is that correct?


Yeah agree in itself isn’t a big drama

Caps on wages would be more of an issue

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