Embargos, HMRC Payment defaults, non payment of wages, the usual under Dai Wrongge

[WestYorksRoyal]

It should never have come to this. Yes, it's losing money but all clubs do. There are enough investors willing to lose money on football clubs and we have enough going for us that we're worth buying. It all comes back to the cnut who simply won't sell.

[Greatwesternline]

I accepted a while back that the club is probably oxf*rd. I will always be prepared to donate some money to help keep the club afloat. I’d even buy my season ticket for next season knowing that it might become null and void. I appreciate a lot of fans wouldn’t want to, but I’d happily take the chance.

It wouldnt surprise me if the club offer this as an option pretty soon. And why not? Big problem is though, for a potential buyer, they'd want to buy the club before the biggest source of income has arrived.

[Elm Park Kid]

It wouldn't, from what I heard this morning it's much worse than that. And the issue is the lack of trust in Dai, you're asking average fans to raid their savings and give money to a Chinese Billionaire who doesn't want to spend his own.

I'm expecting that the club will announce something by the end of the week.

Sounds pretty dire. The Directors must be getting close to wrongful trading; they can be banned from other directorships and roles in the UK if they keep trading knowing the club is insolvent, and make themselves liable to personal claims from creditors who are left out of pocket.

They have the authority to place us in administration, but it may not be possible as someone needs to agree to pay the administrators. It sure as hell won't be Dai. This comes back to whether SJM, SCL and other local business peers could club together, as administration >>>>>>>>liquidation.

They are miles away from wrongful trading. In the summer the club could sell all its players, hire cheaper ones, and use the windfall of new season tickets and TV money to carry on trading, albeit as a much less competitive club. The only way they could be wrongful trading is if the clubs fixed costs (rent and depreciation on assets and the absolute bare minimum staff to function as a going concern) are above the minimum income they can expect next season.

With regards to paying the administrators, if a judge agrees to put Reading into administration the administrators are the first people paid out of the proceeds raised. There are companies in far worse financial situations that RFC limited who get put into administration and administrators get paid.

Remember though that Derby's administration ended up costing £3m in fees, which were underwritten by Mel Morris. Administrators would be coming into a business with a hostile owner, almost no liquid assets and a hope that the final sale price will be enough to at least cover their fees. Which it honestly might not be - the club itself would probably be worthless if it wasn't for Bearwood, and a training ground is probably not going to push the value into the multiple millions.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Absolutely zero chance an administrator agrees to work for us without a reputable person agreeing at the outset to cover costs.

[Greatwesternline]

Sounds pretty dire. The Directors must be getting close to wrongful trading; they can be banned from other directorships and roles in the UK if they keep trading knowing the club is insolvent, and make themselves liable to personal claims from creditors who are left out of pocket.

They have the authority to place us in administration, but it may not be possible as someone needs to agree to pay the administrators. It sure as hell won't be Dai. This comes back to whether SJM, SCL and other local business peers could club together, as administration >>>>>>>>liquidation.

They are miles away from wrongful trading. In the summer the club could sell all its players, hire cheaper ones, and use the windfall of new season tickets and TV money to carry on trading, albeit as a much less competitive club. The only way they could be wrongful trading is if the clubs fixed costs (rent and depreciation on assets and the absolute bare minimum staff to function as a going concern) are above the minimum income they can expect next season.

With regards to paying the administrators, if a judge agrees to put Reading into administration the administrators are the first people paid out of the proceeds raised. There are companies in far worse financial situations that RFC limited who get put into administration and administrators get paid.

Remember though that Derby's administration ended up costing £3m in fees, which were underwritten by Mel Morris. Administrators would be coming into a business with a hostile owner, almost no liquid assets and a hope that the final sale price will be enough to at least cover their fees. Which it honestly might not be - the club itself would probably be worthless if it wasn't for Bearwood, and a training ground is probably not going to push the value into the multiple millions.

The stadium and training ground can be sold for £3m. Pre-contract agreements can be entered into for player sales prior to the window opening. And the players could have their contracts cancelled outright and the clubs cease to exist. Believe me, the administrators would get paid.

The only thing that stops players contracts getting cancelled early is they would constitute not paying football creditors which gets you points deductions. Administrators dont have to worry about those niceties.

[Elm Park Kid]

They are miles away from wrongful trading. In the summer the club could sell all its players, hire cheaper ones, and use the windfall of new season tickets and TV money to carry on trading, albeit as a much less competitive club. The only way they could be wrongful trading is if the clubs fixed costs (rent and depreciation on assets and the absolute bare minimum staff to function as a going concern) are above the minimum income they can expect next season.

With regards to paying the administrators, if a judge agrees to put Reading into administration the administrators are the first people paid out of the proceeds raised. There are companies in far worse financial situations that RFC limited who get put into administration and administrators get paid.

Remember though that Derby's administration ended up costing £3m in fees, which were underwritten by Mel Morris. Administrators would be coming into a business with a hostile owner, almost no liquid assets and a hope that the final sale price will be enough to at least cover their fees. Which it honestly might not be - the club itself would probably be worthless if it wasn't for Bearwood, and a training ground is probably not going to push the value into the multiple millions.

The stadium and training ground can be sold for £3m. Pre-contract agreements can be entered into for player sales prior to the window opening. And the players could have their contracts cancelled outright and the clubs cease to exist. Believe me, the administrators would get paid.

The only thing that stops players contracts getting cancelled early is they would constitute not paying football creditors which gets you points deductions. Administrators dont have to worry about those niceties.

The fact that you mentioned the stadium suggests you might not have all the facts with this one .. ..

[Greatwesternline]

Remember though that Derby's administration ended up costing £3m in fees, which were underwritten by Mel Morris. Administrators would be coming into a business with a hostile owner, almost no liquid assets and a hope that the final sale price will be enough to at least cover their fees. Which it honestly might not be - the club itself would probably be worthless if it wasn't for Bearwood, and a training ground is probably not going to push the value into the multiple millions.

The stadium and training ground can be sold for £3m. Pre-contract agreements can be entered into for player sales prior to the window opening. And the players could have their contracts cancelled outright and the clubs cease to exist. Believe me, the administrators would get paid.

The only thing that stops players contracts getting cancelled early is they would constitute not paying football creditors which gets you points deductions. Administrators dont have to worry about those niceties.

The fact that you mentioned the stadium suggests you might not have all the facts with this one .. ..

That's fair. I am aware that the stadium is not owned by RFC. So take that out of the equation. It does also provide the administrators with an option. We could play somewhere else, and boom we no longer have to pay £1m or whatever is on Mad Stad rent.

[Sutekh]

The stadium and training ground can be sold for £3m. Pre-contract agreements can be entered into for player sales prior to the window opening. And the players could have their contracts cancelled outright and the clubs cease to exist. Believe me, the administrators would get paid.

The only thing that stops players contracts getting cancelled early is they would constitute not paying football creditors which gets you points deductions. Administrators dont have to worry about those niceties.

The fact that you mentioned the stadium suggests you might not have all the facts with this one .. ..

That's fair. I am aware that the stadium is not owned by RFC. So take that out of the equation. It does also provide the administrators with an option. We could play somewhere else, and boom we no longer have to pay £1m or whatever is on Mad Stad rent.

And which ground is up to standard that someone would be willing to share or rent to Reading for next to nothing?

[Greatwesternline]

The fact that you mentioned the stadium suggests you might not have all the facts with this one .. ..

That's fair. I am aware that the stadium is not owned by RFC. So take that out of the equation. It does also provide the administrators with an option. We could play somewhere else, and boom we no longer have to pay £1m or whatever is on Mad Stad rent.

And which ground is up to standard that someone would be willing to share or rent to Reading for next to nothing?

You're talking about it from a footballing perspective. An administrator need not care about such things. A stadium can be found to complete fixtures as required.

[morganb]

I know that STAR are trying to get more information about how much the shortfall is and will then to coordinate some fund raising but what can be done/who can be approached if a whip round by the fans doesn't raise sufficient money?

Does anyone know of any local businesses that can be approached ( Purple Turtle springs to mind plus SCL of course. Blue Collar Food)

Or local celebrities who would be willing to chip in - Amazons fundraising concert? Ricky Gervais charity gig for Reading FC? In conversation with Bill Oddie? Dance-a-thon featuring Robbie Savage? Who wants to find a Millionaire with Chris Tarrant?

[WestYorksRoyal]

Given SCL have stepped in several times already this season and there has been uncertainty every month, I do wonder if Howe's update yesterday was simply par for the course but communicated more openly. Still bad news of course and the EFL are being much stricter now, but I can't work out whether I'm catastrophising and jumping 4 or 5 steps ahead when worrying about extinction.

[Norfolk Royal]

I know that STAR are trying to get more information about how much the shortfall is and will then to coordinate some fund raising but what can be done/who can be approached if a whip round by the fans doesn't raise sufficient money?

Does anyone know of any local businesses that can be approached ( Purple Turtle springs to mind plus SCL of course. Blue Collar Food)

Or local celebrities who would be willing to chip in - Amazons fundraising concert? Ricky Gervais charity gig for Reading FC? In conversation with Bill Oddie? Dance-a-thon featuring Robbie Savage? Who wants to find a Millionaire with Chris Tarrant?

A course of riding lessons hosted by Felix Bowness, fees to be donated to Reading FC.

Fans pay to be lambasted by Jeremy Kyle on the pitch at half-time.

Kate Middleton, from Bucklebury, does a meet and greet in the hotel foyer for a fee to be donated to RFC, abdominal surgery allowing.

[Snowflake Royal]

I know that STAR are trying to get more information about how much the shortfall is and will then to coordinate some fund raising but what can be done/who can be approached if a whip round by the fans doesn't raise sufficient money?

Does anyone know of any local businesses that can be approached ( Purple Turtle springs to mind plus SCL of course. Blue Collar Food)

Or local celebrities who would be willing to chip in - Amazons fundraising concert? Ricky Gervais charity gig for Reading FC? In conversation with Bill Oddie? Dance-a-thon featuring Robbie Savage? Who wants to find a Millionaire with Chris Tarrant?

A course of riding lessons hosted by Felix Bowness, fees to be donated to Reading FC.

Fans pay to be lambasted by Jeremy Kyle on the pitch at half-time.

Kate Middleton, from Bucklebury, does a meet and greet in the hotel foyer for a fee to be donated to RFC, abdominal surgery allowing.

Tim Dellor to do a sponsored 'resign from commentating' would raise twice the cash we need in an instant.

[blueroyals]

Donating is for mugs, why don't we ask for something back in return? Give STAR more shares of the club

[Pepe the Horseman]

Honestly, the most I can probably stretch to right now is a ST for next year. Struggling to justify anything else with everything else going on at the moment.

Would I like to chuck a couple of grand at the club, yeah 100%. Realistically, not possible right now.

I've just signed Charlie Savage.

[morganb]

Honestly, the most I can probably stretch to right now is a ST for next year. Struggling to justify anything else with everything else going on at the moment.

Would I like to chuck a couple of grand at the club, yeah 100%. Realistically, not possible right now.

I've just signed Charlie Savage.

Are you also selling nudes?

https://twitter.com/PepetheHorseman/sta ... 9516891476

[Pepe the Horseman]

Honestly, the most I can probably stretch to right now is a ST for next year. Struggling to justify anything else with everything else going on at the moment.

Would I like to chuck a couple of grand at the club, yeah 100%. Realistically, not possible right now.

I've just signed Charlie Savage.

Are you also selling nudes?

https://twitter.com/PepetheHorseman/sta ... 9516891476

Check your DMs

[Sutekh]

That's fair. I am aware that the stadium is not owned by RFC. So take that out of the equation. It does also provide the administrators with an option. We could play somewhere else, and boom we no longer have to pay £1m or whatever is on Mad Stad rent.

And which ground is up to standard that someone would be willing to share or rent to Reading for next to nothing?

You're talking about it from a footballing perspective. An administrator need not care about such things. A stadium can be found to complete fixtures as required.

I think the FL, not to mention plod, might have something to say if any administators suddenly said Reading would be playing at Bottom Meadow for the forseeable.

[Hendo]

I've just signed Charlie Savage.

Are you also selling nudes?

https://twitter.com/PepetheHorseman/sta ... 9516891476

Check your DMs

Nudes of Orlando Sa?

[Lower West]

In terms of points deduction, it won't make any difference to whether the players agree to a wage deferral or not.

It's going to be hard to get anyone to invest in the club whilst Dai appears to be acting in bad faith.

Any idea how much Howe has involved Dai? Any risk we get a repeat of Genevra where a deal seems to be on and then all falls apart when Dai gets involved?

If no sale happens, it's the end. The EFL will ask us to prove we can survive next season, we won't be able to, goodnight.

Staying up in L1 is a means to an end of helping a deal. Without that it's a meaningless achievement.

So, my (admittedly second hand account) is that Dai really has had no involvement at all until it comes to sign off. All of the negotiations and ground work for the sale have been done solely by Howe/Bowen and others at the club. It's hard to overstate just how little communication Dai has had with the club about anything; they're just keeping their fingers crossed that he'll sign on the line if a reasonable, legitimate offer comes from someone he doesn't consider to be a rival. But no one actually knows. Dai brushed off all offers last year and there are no guarantees that he won't do the same now. He's not acting in a way that suggests he cares about money - otherwise he'd just fund the club on time.

Dai is (a) in China fighting other battles (b) speaks no English (c) has Dayong Pang as his man on the ground in the UK. (d) little else he can contribute to change matters