TAKEOVER *NOT* CONFIMRED

[leon]

if hes converted £200m of dodgy money previously stuck in china to £30m of his own money freely usable outside of china it sounds like a good outcome for him

I mean, he could have done exactly the same thing any number of ways.

The Reading fanbase will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Dai Yongge spaffed £200m on Reading Football Club, and all we have to show for it is relegation to League 1 and a very nice training ground.

Its the most incredible poor use of funds imaginable. And most of it stems from one poor appointment after another as CEO of RFC, and taking advice on player recruitment from Kia.

If he had thrown a lot more money at hiring elite level managers, and not hiring messers Clement, Gomez, Paunnovic, and a bit less on yet another attacking midfielder, we could well be an established PL team.

Dai Yongge had the deep pockets, and the willingness to spend it, but didnt have a oxf*rd clue about the best way to go about it.

Although i still cant get my head round how badly Ron Gourlay steered the whole ship. He should have been the man to stand up to Dai and take control of the club from a footballing point of view and insist on proper recruitment etc. Instead he gutted the club of the things that worked well and allowed a scnadalous spaff of money to go on terrible player recruitment.

Jeez, where have you been? We all came to terms on that ages ago.

That's the GWL we all know and love. Turn up, make some patronising remarks designed to impress us with his wisdom whilst stating the mostly obvious with a few random grenades designed to keep us "interested".

[Greatwesternline]

Just means this takeover is massive for us. If it all goes tits up for the incoming owners, we'll be protected by the regulator. This is the moment of maximum peril.

Ridiculous to see the PL opposing it but not surprising. I wonder where their fans sit. Certainly, I would expect most "legacy fans" to be on the side of the regulator.

You say protected by the regulator. The regulator won't be "protecting" clubs per se. If a regulator says all clubs need to be run at a break even cost, well, that might not be great news for Reading. Because we will be loss making so long as we have that massive cat 1 academy hanging over us in league 1.

Until the regulator is established, and sets out its requirements, no one knows what it will mean for clubs. There is also nothing a regulator can do about a club having its owner cut off all funding mid way through a season.

Obvious answer of in that case we simply downgrade the academy, is obvious.

The key to sustainability it getting player wages to sensible levels. Hopefully a regulator can do that.

It's obvious to you, but the gnashing of teeth when a regulator intervention results in RFC downgrading its academy will be loud and vociferous from folk on here.

"The regulator doesnt understand the importance of investment to grow"

"What is the point of a regulator if it makes us sell our most important assets to grow the club"

I can see it now.

[From Despair To Where?]

And it's only cost him circa £200m. Done very well for himself.

if hes converted £200m of dodgy money previously stuck in china to £30m of his own money freely usable outside of china it sounds like a good outcome for him

Not sure even the dodgiest of launderers charge 85%.

[Snowflake Royal]

You say protected by the regulator. The regulator won't be "protecting" clubs per se. If a regulator says all clubs need to be run at a break even cost, well, that might not be great news for Reading. Because we will be loss making so long as we have that massive cat 1 academy hanging over us in league 1.

Until the regulator is established, and sets out its requirements, no one knows what it will mean for clubs. There is also nothing a regulator can do about a club having its owner cut off all funding mid way through a season.

Obvious answer of in that case we simply downgrade the academy, is obvious.

The key to sustainability it getting player wages to sensible levels. Hopefully a regulator can do that.

It's obvious to you, but the gnashing of teeth when a regulator intervention results in RFC downgrading its academy will be loud and vociferous from folk on here.

"The regulator doesnt understand the importance of investment to grow"

"What is the point of a regulator if it makes us sell our most important assets to grow the club"

I can see it now.

I can't help you with people too stupid to see you can't run a Cat 1 Academy in L1 for long on an average attendance of 12k without falling apart.

[Greatwesternline]

if hes converted £200m of dodgy money previously stuck in china to £30m of his own money freely usable outside of china it sounds like a good outcome for him

I mean, he could have done exactly the same thing any number of ways.

The Reading fanbase will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Dai Yongge spaffed £200m on Reading Football Club, and all we have to show for it is relegation to League 1 and a very nice training ground.

Its the most incredible poor use of funds imaginable. And most of it stems from one poor appointment after another as CEO of RFC, and taking advice on player recruitment from Kia.

If he had thrown a lot more money at hiring elite level managers, and not hiring messers Clement, Gomez, Paunnovic, and a bit less on yet another attacking midfielder, we could well be an established PL team.

Dai Yongge had the deep pockets, and the willingness to spend it, but didnt have a oxf*rd clue about the best way to go about it.

Although i still cant get my head round how badly Ron Gourlay steered the whole ship. He should have been the man to stand up to Dai and take control of the club from a footballing point of view and insist on proper recruitment etc. Instead he gutted the club of the things that worked well and allowed a scnadalous spaff of money to go on terrible player recruitment.

Jeez, where have you been? We all came to terms on that ages ago.

I dont think they did. Many people Still think Dai is somehow trying to bleed the club dry, but the reality is that to a large extent RFC and the players he sanctioned bled him dry of his free cashflow, and he is trying to get some of that back.

[Snowflake Royal]

I mean, he could have done exactly the same thing any number of ways.

The Reading fanbase will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Dai Yongge spaffed £200m on Reading Football Club, and all we have to show for it is relegation to League 1 and a very nice training ground.

Its the most incredible poor use of funds imaginable. And most of it stems from one poor appointment after another as CEO of RFC, and taking advice on player recruitment from Kia.

If he had thrown a lot more money at hiring elite level managers, and not hiring messers Clement, Gomez, Paunnovic, and a bit less on yet another attacking midfielder, we could well be an established PL team.

Dai Yongge had the deep pockets, and the willingness to spend it, but didnt have a oxf*rd clue about the best way to go about it.

Although i still cant get my head round how badly Ron Gourlay steered the whole ship. He should have been the man to stand up to Dai and take control of the club from a footballing point of view and insist on proper recruitment etc. Instead he gutted the club of the things that worked well and allowed a scnadalous spaff of money to go on terrible player recruitment.

Jeez, where have you been? We all came to terms on that ages ago.

I dont think they did. Many people Still think Dai is somehow trying to bleed the club dry, but the reality is that to a large extent RFC and the players he sanctioned bled him dry of his free cashflow, and he is trying to get some of that back.

Same thing.

[Forbury Lion]

Next tie Dai Yongge wants to get involved with football he can give me £200m and I'll teach him how to play FIFA or Football Manager

The training ground investment was the only sound advice he was given, Could have worked out alot differently if he'd appointed a CEO with the right experience at this level and let them get on with it, Possibly Nigel Howe if he'd been up for it.

[Snowflake Royal]

Next tie Dai Yongge wants to get involved with football he can give me £200m and I'll teach him how to play FIFA or Football Manager

The training ground investment was the only sound advice he was given, Could have worked out alot differently if he'd appointed a CEO with the right experience at this level and let them get on with it, Possibly Nigel Howe if he'd been up for it.

It would have been no different, because Pang has just been a puppet and Dai was happy to overrule Gourlay when he felt like it.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Next tie Dai Yongge wants to get involved with football he can give me £200m and I'll teach him how to play FIFA or Football Manager

The training ground investment was the only sound advice he was given, Could have worked out alot differently if he'd appointed a CEO with the right experience at this level and let them get on with it, Possibly Nigel Howe if he'd been up for it.

It would have been no different, because Pang has just been a puppet and Dai was happy to overrule Gourlay when he felt like it.

Didn't Gourlay agree a deal with Brighton for Moore, and it was Dai who who intervened to make one of the worst financial decisions in our history? Gourlay wasn't good for us, but don't mistake him as the main villain.

[Franchise FC]

And it's only cost him circa £200m. Done very well for himself.

if hes converted £200m of dodgy money previously stuck in china to £30m of his own money freely usable outside of china it sounds like a good outcome for him

He might need to spend it quickly

[Forbury Lion]

Next tie Dai Yongge wants to get involved with football he can give me £200m and I'll teach him how to play FIFA or Football Manager

The training ground investment was the only sound advice he was given, Could have worked out alot differently if he'd appointed a CEO with the right experience at this level and let them get on with it, Possibly Nigel Howe if he'd been up for it.

It would have been no different, because Pang has just been a puppet and Dai was happy to overrule Gourlay when he felt like it.

I meant if Pang was never appointed and someone like Nigel Howe was left unmolested to get on with the job and was in charge of appointing all staff.
At the very least, I think we would still be in the Championship.

[rabidbee]

People would be hailing Dai as brilliant if he had spent £200m, got us promoted to the PL, not fallen foul of FFP. But the system isn't sustainable if the difference between judging something successful or a failure comes down to whether or not you pull off a massive gamble. You can't build a sustainable model around the idea that clubs need to be run by individuals willing to spend big in the hope of success, when the whole premise of competitive sport is that most of the competitors are going to lose.

That's why I think it's wrong when SBWD say football has an ownership problem, it's far more comprehensive than that. Dai has come in and done exactly what is expected of an owned, he just hasn't shown very good judgement in the way he did it. A regulator will hopefully force all clubs to move to a system that is more sustainable because they will be required to largely fund themselves. (A regulator will also hopefully come down quite hard on fraudulent dealings between clubs and other companies who share an owner, to stop them artificially inflating their earnings.) There will be squealing from the top of the PL because it might make it harder for them to compete with clubs in Europe, but if it makes the whole edifice of the league more secure it will be worth it.

[leon]

People would be hailing Dai as brilliant if he had spent £200m, got us promoted to the PL, not fallen foul of FFP. But the system isn't sustainable if the difference between judging something successful or a failure comes down to whether or not you pull off a massive gamble. You can't build a sustainable model around the idea that clubs need to be run by individuals willing to spend big in the hope of success, when the whole premise of competitive sport is that most of the competitors are going to lose.

That's why I think it's wrong when SBWD say football has an ownership problem, it's far more comprehensive than that. Dai has come in and done exactly what is expected of an owned, he just hasn't shown very good judgement in the way he did it. A regulator will hopefully force all clubs to move to a system that is more sustainable because they will be required to largely fund themselves. (A regulator will also hopefully come down quite hard on fraudulent dealings between clubs and other companies who share an owner, to stop them artificially inflating their earnings.) There will be squealing from the top of the PL because it might make it harder for them to compete with clubs in Europe, but if it makes the whole edifice of the league more secure it will be worth it.

Yes the problem is not just the spending of money and the lack of cashflow now - it's the overall financial governance and lack of sustainability. eg The management of contracts has meant we were paying too much for mediocrities and not recouping money for developing talent. But again this has been discussed to death over the years.

[Millsy]

This potential new owner, I'm confused- is it for the whole thing or everythign except the training ground? If the latter that's still a worry surely.

[Franchise FC]

This potential new owner, I'm confused- is it for the whole thing or everythign except the training ground? If the latter that's still a worry surely.

Genuine question …. why ?

If it’s expensive to run shirley better to have a team survive

[WestYorksRoyal]

People would be hailing Dai as brilliant if he had spent £200m, got us promoted to the PL, not fallen foul of FFP. But the system isn't sustainable if the difference between judging something successful or a failure comes down to whether or not you pull off a massive gamble. You can't build a sustainable model around the idea that clubs need to be run by individuals willing to spend big in the hope of success, when the whole premise of competitive sport is that most of the competitors are going to lose.

That's why I think it's wrong when SBWD say football has an ownership problem, it's far more comprehensive than that. Dai has come in and done exactly what is expected of an owned, he just hasn't shown very good judgement in the way he did it. A regulator will hopefully force all clubs to move to a system that is more sustainable because they will be required to largely fund themselves. (A regulator will also hopefully come down quite hard on fraudulent dealings between clubs and other companies who share an owner, to stop them artificially inflating their earnings.) There will be squealing from the top of the PL because it might make it harder for them to compete with clubs in Europe, but if it makes the whole edifice of the league more secure it will be worth it.

Yes the problem is not just the spending of money and the lack of cashflow now - it's the overall financial governance and lack of sustainability. eg The management of contracts has meant we were paying too much for mediocrities and not recouping money for developing talent. But again this has been discussed to death over the years.

You can go over what has got us here again and again, but bare minimum regulation is a backstop against where we are now. Stop paying wages, HMRC or football creditors? After too many offences, the regulator gets involved and uses funds from the industry to meet commitments (perhaps from a transfer levy). They choose the buyer, take their cut of sale proceeds to reimburse the fund and also as a penalty. You lose control of the sale process and get whatever residual value is left at the end. Dai would have been gone by Christmas.

How you stop clubs getting into that situation first of all is more complicated.

[rabidbee]

You can go over what has got us here again and again, but bare minimum regulation is a backstop against where we are now. Stop paying wages, HMRC or football creditors? After too many offences, the regulator gets involved and uses funds from the industry to meet commitments (perhaps from a transfer levy). They choose the buyer, take their cut of sale proceeds to reimburse the fund and also as a penalty. You lose control of the sale process and get whatever residual value is left at the end. Dai would have been gone by Christmas.

How you stop clubs getting into that situation first of all is more complicated.

Everyone keeps talking about squad-cost ratios, to keep all teams within their means. Rick Parry was saying this would mean they could regulate club finances immediately - by not registering any player that would breach the ratios - rather than three years after the date.

[WestYorksRoyal]

You can go over what has got us here again and again, but bare minimum regulation is a backstop against where we are now. Stop paying wages, HMRC or football creditors? After too many offences, the regulator gets involved and uses funds from the industry to meet commitments (perhaps from a transfer levy). They choose the buyer, take their cut of sale proceeds to reimburse the fund and also as a penalty. You lose control of the sale process and get whatever residual value is left at the end. Dai would have been gone by Christmas.

How you stop clubs getting into that situation first of all is more complicated.

Everyone keeps talking about squad-cost ratios, to keep all teams within their means. Rick Parry was saying this would mean they could regulate club finances immediately - by not registering any player that would breach the ratios - rather than three years after the date.

I would agree with this approach, but you will get a counter argument that it stops ambitious owners investing which would favour the big clubs. And it would make it harder to crash the top table, but not impossible. And I'd say it's a price worth paying.

Also, I support Reading. If I wanted to support a team who won all the time I'd support Man Utd given they were the best as I was growing up. Obviously the big clubs are always going to win more; our best moments will always be rare and celebrated with an ecstacy that big club fans can't understand. Maybe older Man City fans with memories of their dark days used to appreciate it, but even they must be spoiled now.

So if you're worried that such controls would stop you seeing football manager lived out for real, perhaps go and support another club?

[St Pauli]

I mean, he could have done exactly the same thing any number of ways.

The Reading fanbase will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Dai Yongge spaffed £200m on Reading Football Club, and all we have to show for it is relegation to League 1 and a very nice training ground.

Its the most incredible poor use of funds imaginable. And most of it stems from one poor appointment after another as CEO of RFC, and taking advice on player recruitment from Kia.

If he had thrown a lot more money at hiring elite level managers, and not hiring messers Clement, Gomez, Paunnovic, and a bit less on yet another attacking midfielder, we could well be an established PL team.

Dai Yongge had the deep pockets, and the willingness to spend it, but didnt have a oxf*rd clue about the best way to go about it.

Although i still cant get my head round how badly Ron Gourlay steered the whole ship. He should have been the man to stand up to Dai and take control of the club from a footballing point of view and insist on proper recruitment etc. Instead he gutted the club of the things that worked well and allowed a scnadalous spaff of money to go on terrible player recruitment.

Jeez, where have you been? We all came to terms on that ages ago.

That's the GWL we all know and love. Turn up, make some patronising remarks designed to impress us with his wisdom whilst stating the mostly obvious with a few random grenades designed to keep us "interested".

Would you say it’s gotten too personal between you and GWL, Leon?

It seems every time he posts (and often when he doesn’t) you have some negative dig to make.

[rabidbee]

I would agree with this approach, but you will get a counter argument that it stops ambitious owners investing which would favour the big clubs. And it would make it harder to crash the top table, but not impossible. And I'd say it's a price worth paying.

Also, I support Reading. If I wanted to support a team who won all the time I'd support Man Utd given they were the best as I was growing up. Obviously the big clubs are always going to win more; our best moments will always be rare and celebrated with an ecstacy that big club fans can't understand. Maybe older Man City fans with memories of their dark days used to appreciate it, but even they must be spoiled now.

So if you're worried that such controls would stop you seeing football manager lived out for real, perhaps go and support another club?

There would be nothing stopping a big club from spunking large amounts of cash (within their greater means) on players who turn out to be shit, they just couldn't spunk even more cash on buying replacements, they'd have to live with it, or at least sell the dross first.

Further, I think it was said that clubs competing in UEFA competitions are already subject to 70% squad-cost ratios anyway.

So yes, it would stop a club owner spending £300m to shoot up the leagues and gate-crash the PL, but does anybody want to see that happening anyway?