BFTG Fleetwood shambles

[Lower West]

The club is a dog's breakfast. On field antics are just a sideshow to the main event. Going to get even worse before it gets better.

[clauski]

So Selles effectively admitting he doesn’t know what else to do. So nothing will change unless the manager changes. Why is our managerial selection process literally so poor? This could have been foreseen given his lack of experience. I think Bowen tends to have support but surely led this decision and others that do not hold up.

[Royal_jimmy]

Very surprised to hear the usually reserved Mick come out with "This manager hasn't got a clue" at the end of the game.
People have been very dismissive of Fleetwood but I thought they played some decent pass and move football before tiring in the second half.

As for us?
Button was ok as was Abbey but otherwise 4/10 performances.

Just on Azeez I think posters suggesting that he changed the game was a bit OTT.
He shot straight at the keeper but worse still he is terrified of making a tackle and not being blessed with speed he can't go outside his man and always comes back on his left foot.
He is not the only one to underachieve this season but , as with Loader, he may not be as good as we all hoped he would be and 2 goals in about 40 games is a poor return for a player used in a fairly advanced position and sometimes as an out and out striker.

Azeez has had a really disappointing season - there is real talent there but its not happening for him at the moment. But for fans to call him out last night is just ridiculous, he was our best player.

I've been heavily critical of Azeez but he was ok yesterday and was involved in our most dangerous attacks

[Hound]

Azeez is one of our better players who seems to have lost all ability in front of goal. His all round game yesterday was very good except when in sight of the goal

Constantly just seems to hit it as hard as possible prob due to a lack of confidence. Tbf keepers have made some good saves against him at times

[NathStPaul]

Paul obviously didn't watch the game.

[Pepe the Horseman]

How's it the players fault? they're young and learning professional football. They need proper strong guidance on how to approach games. A good manager would recognise that. Shows how clueless he is

Of course it’s the players fault as well. Players at that level shouldn’t keep making the mistakes they are. They aren’t all young - Dean, Smith, Knibbs, NGW, Wing, Button etc They need to step up

Our squad isn't as young and fragile as people like to make out.

Those you've mentioned, plus Yiadom, McIntyre, Holmes and Hutchinson have all got 100s of first team appearances each. Savage and Elliot are both full internationals, Mukairu has played in the Champions League!

Peterborough, for example, have a younger squad than us and they're doing ok.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

How's it the players fault? they're young and learning professional football. They need proper strong guidance on how to approach games. A good manager would recognise that. Shows how clueless he is

Of course it’s the players fault as well. Players at that level shouldn’t keep making the mistakes they are. They aren’t all young - Dean, Smith, Knibbs, NGW, Wing, Button etc They need to step up

Our squad isn't as young and fragile as people like to make out.

Those you've mentioned, plus Yiadom, McIntyre, Holmes and Hutchinson have all got 100s of first team appearances each. Savage and Elliot are both full internationals, Mukairu has played in the Champions League!

Peterborough, for example, have a younger squad than us and they're doing ok.

Sunderland another example a division higher whilst getting out of this league and being strong in it as well.

Saying the players are blameless is just wrong. Selles could do more, having said that, so could the players. Selles gives them the ideas to play, although he can't physically put the ball in the net for them and we've had several occasions like that this season. I'd question Selles more if we weren't creating chances, but we are and we miss them, that's where the individuals start coming into it.

[Hound]

I feel for Selles a bit tbh. Not like ince where he set out to be negative, dull and scrape a win

As a neutral the game yesterday would have been a good watch. We make chances, energetic, ambitious, aggressive, plays the youth like we wanted - been too gung-ho if anything

I think the experienced players have let him down - whatever happened after Port Vale with Carroll, NGW and Holmes (who comes over to me as having a poor attitude), McIntyre, Hutch and Dean not been good, Yiadom getting a 3 match ban from the bench FFS, Smith getting injured (obvs not his fault as such), Knibbs missing some very very easy chances at crucial times, Button generally ok but Northampton….

Obvs Selles can take a fair chunk of the blame for things but that lot haven’t helped

[NathStPaul]

Oh come on. He fcuking sucks and is the worst possible person we could have in charge of the team in our current situation. You do not have to feel for him in the slightest.

[Hound]

Oh come on. He fcuking sucks and is the worst possible person we could have in charge of the team in our current situation. You do not have to feel for him in the slightest.

Haha you are tempting fate there

If the last few years have taught us anything it’s that there is always worse

[WestYorksRoyal]

I feel for Selles a bit tbh. Not like ince where he set out to be negative, dull and scrape a win

As a neutral the game yesterday would have been a good watch. We make chances, energetic, ambitious, aggressive, plays the youth like we wanted - been too gung-ho if anything

I think the experienced players have let him down - whatever happened after Port Vale with Carroll, NGW and Holmes (who comes over to me as having a poor attitude), McIntyre, Hutch and Dean not been good, Yiadom getting a 3 match ban from the bench FFS, Smith getting injured (obvs not his fault as such), Knibbs missing some very very easy chances at crucial times, Button generally ok but Northampton….

Obvs Selles can take a fair chunk of the blame for things but that lot haven’t helped

I'd simply say it's not his fault that he's out of his depth. Ultimately the club's fault for appointing him in a hailstorm.

The main criticism is stubbornness with the formation, but so many coaches are taught "stick to your principles" that he probably can't see anything else.

The rest of the issues are much more intangible. Why do we often start slowly? Why do our heads drop so much after a single goal? Why do we always find a way to lose no matter how many chances we create and whatever the match situation? It all comes down to belief and a manager who can instill that in his team, and he has been unable to conjure that. Compare that with an experienced head who has seen it all like Wilder or Warnock - you can see why they would bring that extra calm and composure.

[blythspartan]

I can’t feel for Selles whatsoever. He’s probably getting paid a decent salary and he’s underperforming as a manager.

Up until the Orient game I was fully behind him and accepted that with a young squad there was bound to be a few bumps along the way. However, we have regressed since the start of the season and we are steadily getting worse in every game. I can’t see where the next win will come from. We have had a decent run of games and we should have got more points. We have even been lucky with the the 3 league games we’ve managed to win.

The problem is he hasn’t got the knowledge or experience to turn things around and he’s already admitted that he’s a one trick pony.

[Pepe the Horseman]

I feel for Selles a bit tbh. Not like ince where he set out to be negative, dull and scrape a win

As a neutral the game yesterday would have been a good watch. We make chances, energetic, ambitious, aggressive, plays the youth like we wanted - been too gung-ho if anything

I think the experienced players have let him down - whatever happened after Port Vale with Carroll, NGW and Holmes (who comes over to me as having a poor attitude), McIntyre, Hutch and Dean not been good, Yiadom getting a 3 match ban from the bench FFS, Smith getting injured (obvs not his fault as such), Knibbs missing some very very easy chances at crucial times, Button generally ok but Northampton….

Obvs Selles can take a fair chunk of the blame for things but that lot haven’t helped

I'd simply say it's not his fault that he's out of his depth. Ultimately the club's fault for appointing him in a hailstorm.

The main criticism is stubbornness with the formation, but so many coaches are taught "stick to your principles" that he probably can't see anything else.

The rest of the issues are much more intangible. Why do we often start slowly? Why do our heads drop so much after a single goal? Why do we always find a way to lose no matter how many chances we create and whatever the match situation? It all comes down to belief and a manager who can instill that in his team, and he has been unable to conjure that. Compare that with an experienced head who has seen it all like Wilder or Warnock - you can see why they would bring that extra calm and composure.

If I apply for a job and it turns out I'm terrible at it, I'd say I'm more to blame than the people I convinced to give me the job in the first place.

[Clyde1998]

How's it the players fault? they're young and learning professional football. They need proper strong guidance on how to approach games. A good manager would recognise that. Shows how clueless he is

Of course it’s the players fault as well. Players at that level shouldn’t keep making the mistakes they are. They aren’t all young - Dean, Smith, Knibbs, NGW, Wing, Button etc They need to step up

Our squad isn't as young and fragile as people like to make out.

Those you've mentioned, plus Yiadom, McIntyre, Holmes and Hutchinson have all got 100s of first team appearances each. Savage and Elliot are both full internationals, Mukairu has played in the Champions League!

Peterborough, for example, have a younger squad than us and they're doing ok.

Yiadom, McIntyre and Holmes have typically not been selected - albeit McIntyre did get injured. Mukairu has played in the Champions League, but only for a total of 68 minutes and has only started once for us in the league (and he came off at half-time). Savage and Elliot are full internationals, but they're not playing for top countries - Wales and Cameroon are both around 50th in the world (based on the Elo ratings), about the same as Georgia or Finland - and they haven't played many matches at that level (they're not first choice players for their country).

Of those who are regularly playing and have serious experience, I think it's only Hutch, Button, Dean and Wing who have played regularly. Elsewhere, Smith has been injured; Ejaria probably won't play.

Holmes, NGW, McIntyre and Knibbs have only played the equivalent of two full seasons of league minutes in their careers (first team matches; including minutes this season); Mukairu and Mbengue are both at around one full season of minutes. Everyone else who has played in the league is at the equivalent of half a season or less.

From what I've seen of the Peterborough players: they may be younger on average, but they have a lot more experience in first team football. I believe their 20 year-old CB has played more first team minutes than Tom McIntyre in his career, despite being four or five years younger. It's typically not age that's the issue, it's experience.

[South Coast Royal]

I feel for Selles a bit tbh. Not like ince where he set out to be negative, dull and scrape a win

As a neutral the game yesterday would have been a good watch. We make chances, energetic, ambitious, aggressive, plays the youth like we wanted - been too gung-ho if anything

I think the experienced players have let him down - whatever happened after Port Vale with Carroll, NGW and Holmes (who comes over to me as having a poor attitude), McIntyre, Hutch and Dean not been good, Yiadom getting a 3 match ban from the bench FFS, Smith getting injured (obvs not his fault as such), Knibbs missing some very very easy chances at crucial times, Button generally ok but Northampton….

Obvs Selles can take a fair chunk of the blame for things but that lot haven’t helped

I know that you are bit of an RTG Hound but surely even you couldn't have thought the first half last night was as you called it "a good watch" with us being outplayed, outthought and outfought looking like a non-league side playing a 3rd division side and we had the advantage of being at home.

As for your "energetic ,ambitious ,aggressive" definition of our football this season that IMHO is really stretching things and haven't you noticed we are 2nd bottom (even if we had no points deductions) in a division lower that we were in last season?.

We have moments in games but that is not enough as every team has moments and conceding 21 goals is dreadful.
ALL the players apart from Abbey have let the club down as has the manager and the club can't sack the players so.............................

[Hound]

I feel for Selles a bit tbh. Not like ince where he set out to be negative, dull and scrape a win

As a neutral the game yesterday would have been a good watch. We make chances, energetic, ambitious, aggressive, plays the youth like we wanted - been too gung-ho if anything

I think the experienced players have let him down - whatever happened after Port Vale with Carroll, NGW and Holmes (who comes over to me as having a poor attitude), McIntyre, Hutch and Dean not been good, Yiadom getting a 3 match ban from the bench FFS, Smith getting injured (obvs not his fault as such), Knibbs missing some very very easy chances at crucial times, Button generally ok but Northampton….

Obvs Selles can take a fair chunk of the blame for things but that lot haven’t helped

I know that you are bit of an RTG Hound but surely even you couldn't have thought the first half last night was as you called it "a good watch" with us being outplayed, outthought and outfought looking like a non-league side playing a 3rd division side and we had the advantage of being at home.

As for your "energetic ,ambitious ,aggressive" definition of our football this season that IMHO is really stretching things and haven't you noticed we are 2nd bottom (even if we had no points deductions) in a division lower that we were in last season?.

We have moments in games but that is not enough as every team has moments and conceding 21 goals is dreadful.
ALL the players apart from Abbey have let the club down as has the manager and the club can't sack the players so.............................

I didn’t say we do it well SCR, we do it very badly . We try to do those things, we try to be front foot most of the time but are far too open, defend poorly and miss chances. On top of many other things we do wrong. For me it’s time for Selles to go, I’m not defending him, he isn’t up to it

The last 60 mins was a decent game. Not high quality at all but end to end with plenty of chances.

Story of nearly every game that we make and concede a lot of chances. The opposition always scores at least one more of there’s though…still I’d take it over watching the negative borefest we became under ince

[Snowflake Royal]

So Selles effectively admitting he doesn’t know what else to do. So nothing will change unless the manager changes. Why is our managerial selection process literally so poor? This could have been foreseen given his lack of experience. I think Bowen tends to have support but surely led this decision and others that do not hold up.

Did he lead this decision though?

First major rumour - Nathan Jones, experienced manager
Second major rumour and seemingly only not appointed when Dai stopped paying the bills - Wilder, experienced manager.
Other early rumours - Richie Wellens, manager with L1 experience
- Cowleys, manager with L1 experience I think

Dai oxf*rd us, everything goes quiet, suddenly Selles is front runner and appointed.

Reads to me like Dai screwed Bowen's good work then appointed another clown along exactly the same lines as always.

[Fox Talbot]

Can’t recall Vickers name mentioned on this thread. We haven’t sold him???!!

For me, he’s the only bright light we’ve got in attack yet he’s not getting a look in. Injured?

[Snowflake Royal]

Can’t recall Vickers name mentioned on this thread. We haven’t sold him???!!

For me, he’s the only bright light we’ve got in attack yet he’s not getting a look in. Injured?

Fit, but SeLOLLOLes only really wants to play him as a striker, so he's behind Smith, Ballard and Ehibhatiomhan.

I'd happily see him AM LRC or striker. Him, Rushesha, Azeez and Wing are the only players you can guarantee will be involved all game and consistently be trying to be positive and make things happen.

[Pepe the Horseman]

So Selles effectively admitting he doesn’t know what else to do. So nothing will change unless the manager changes. Why is our managerial selection process literally so poor? This could have been foreseen given his lack of experience. I think Bowen tends to have support but surely led this decision and others that do not hold up.

Did he lead this decision though?

First major rumour - Nathan Jones, experienced manager
Second major rumour and seemingly only not appointed when Dai stopped paying the bills - Wilder, experienced manager.
Other early rumours - Richie Wellens, manager with L1 experience
- Cowleys, manager with L1 experience I think

Dai oxf*rd us, everything goes quiet, suddenly Selles is front runner and appointed.

Reads to me like Dai screwed Bowen's good work then appointed another clown along exactly the same lines as always.

Certainly how it looked at the time, but the narrative from the "ITKs" was very much that it was Bowen's decision. May have just been wishful thinking though.

The Wilder miss feels like a huge sliding doors moment, although I have a feeling he would've walked before the season started once everything started to unravel.