Joe Jacobson - Liability or Asset ?

[fred sharpes nose]

As a long time fan (1970) and current ST holder (swayed by the optimism of the Redwood regime) I've been mulling over the woeful POSH performance and the big decision to a) go out tomorrow vs Luton on a cold wet night b) pick between two other better things to do.

What has gone wrong and why ?

The key actors in this sorry saga
1) Rob Couhig - not flush with cash, focus on sensible spending, get players in on the cheap . Nothing wrong with that. Good at communications and heart in the right place based on what he says - the desire to flip the club and move a profit is fine with me. But Is he really a football man though? Understood well in advance that there would be a massive squad shortfall at the end of last season

2) Noel Hunt - should have been clear to new ownership from even before they finalised the sale that
a) he has never built a team
b) never introduced a style of play
Because as realistically being just an U21 / "reserve" team boss he has style of play dictated to him by the manager, so players can move up to the first team and fit in. I would guess the recruits into the Academy system are largely handled by others even down to kids level, though he would have some influence on who to bin off at U16 level U18 level U21 but in conjunction wth more senoir staff members (Manager, Academy staff etc)
His success last season was largely following the model set in place by Selles

3) Brian Carey and Recruitment Team - in a workplace environment HR/Recruitment source and screen candidates for interview based on the requirements defined by the Hiring manager - in this case the key requirements seem to be > we need lots of bodies > "good lads" > cheap wages. BC and team then follow up on that and it seems do a decent job of finding players to "interview". its not their role to define the type of player need - there role is to find players that match the spec.

4) Supporting Cast - Lewis Wing and Joel P. A no brainer to get these two signed early. Lots of good talk from RC probably helped.

5) Joe Jacobson - No coaching or mangerial experience. Solid lower level player. Does a football business course - gets hired as Robs man on the ground. My guess his focus is keeping Rob happy, doing the things in his job spec to keep his job. Sorting out fireworks - tick that box. I would assume he is the final sanction / approval to sign a player.

6) Leam Richardson - excuses from day one - fitness availability quality, 2/3 windows etc. Bad mouth (in code) everything before him, expectation setting saying basically its not my fault if we go down and I'm a hero if I keep us up.

My concerns
1) Did Joe seriously challenge Noel on each player in the frame and critically how they would fit the jigsaw. How would they compliment the talents of Lewis Joel and Charlie Savage - the core to build a team around. Paudie on paper has a good CV - in a back five - so what was the next critical signing to allow him to flourish and exploit his strengths and well as compensating for his weaknesses.

2) Did Joe ever go back to Rob and challenge him on budgets (not in total but allocation across players). We heard him follow the the corporate speak about "getting more bodies in the building". Why not fewer, but better, perhaps younger players in - dont get 3 bodies get 2 and pay them 50% more? Would he want to have very difficult and challenging conversations early with his new boss - or toe the line and get bodies in so that box is ticked

3) I suspect Lewis Joel and Charlie are not at all happy and the first two perhaps regret signing up on the "promise". If any got an offer to jump ship in January pretty sure they'd take it. Lewis Wing can see his career going backwards week by week.

4) Noel Hunt sacking - at this moment seems counter productive - but can understand the decision if not the timing

5) Internal Tensions and Politics - JJ must be fuming regarding LR and his subtle "recruitment was crap" as surely he owns that , LR has a free pass at the moment and is going to exploit it as long as possible

In the absence of a proper DOF Joe J must surely own that role and has a lot to answer for.

Would things be a lot better/different if Mark Bowen were still here.......................

Rob has almost admitted he should have sacked Noel immedately after takeover. I suspect Leams experience maybe would have resulted in a better squad for his preferred style - though not sure Lewis Wing would want to be part of that team

Outcome - end of this season 13 players under contract
Contracted to June 2027 (approx age at contract end)
1) Richie (37)
2) Williams D (35)
3) Stevens (29)
4) Fraser (28)
5) Danny K (25)
6) Savage (25)
7) Kelvin E (23)
8 ) Ahmed (19)
Contracted to 2028
9) Joel P (31)
10) Marrriot (33)
11) WIng (32)
12) Lane (26)
Contracted to 2029
13) O'Connor (31)

[windermereROYAL]

Don`t go to the game tomorrow mate, you`ll be alone.

[Millsy]

A bit early to be judging anyone at the moment isn't it?

[Clyde1998]

Jacobson's had one transfer window as effectively a Director of Football (not just at Reading, but generally). We'll see in January as to what lessons may or not have been learned from the summer.

I'd describe the summer window as having at least two strategies, perhaps down to the objectives of the owners; Jacobson; Carey; and Hunt not being aligned. We don't know what balance was given between the manager chooses the players we're signing and the manager simply approves of the players the higher ups want to sign.

We also don't know how the budget dictated the signings we made. It sounds like money was put into the club to enable the latter signings we made, implying the earlier deals were based on us having a smaller budget when compared to what we've ended up spending. They certainly seem to have been caught out by the inflation of transfer fees and wages in League One.

One thing that's worried me in this aspect is the over-dependence on AI. At one of the Q&A events I went to (may have been Carey's), it was mentioned the club doesn't have many scouts and was using AI to find players. The obvious concern is it's almost impossible for any club to accurately assess players in person, due to the limited resources in this area - I don't see how you can judge personalities; or mental attributes via AI. AI may be good at identifying players who should be looked at, but that's its limit and there still needs to be a serious assessment of players done by scouts; the recruitment team; the management team; etc.

On players being signed for the development teams, the Head of Youth Development would absolutely be involved in that decision. Although, again, we don't know whether that's merely veto power or direct selection of players.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Don't judge people for making mistakes. Judge them on how they respond to them. Basically where my thinking is on JJ.

[Brogue]

Extremely naive of couhig to appoint it JJ. If we were a stable club and not an utter shambles when he took over he could probably have hit the ground running. It to bring someone in who has never been in such a role to try and rebuild the club is lunacy. To answer the OP he is a liability, yes.

[traff]

Agree to a certain extent with that philosophy.
However, there’s a big difference between learning with a water pistol and learning with live ammunition.

[tidus_mi2]

Jacobson's had one transfer window as effectively a Director of Football (not just at Reading, but generally). We'll see in January as to what lessons may or not have been learned from the summer.

I'd describe the summer window as having at least two strategies, perhaps down to the objectives of the owners; Jacobson; Carey; and Hunt not being aligned. We don't know what balance was given between the manager chooses the players we're signing and the manager simply approves of the players the higher ups want to sign.

We also don't know how the budget dictated the signings we made. It sounds like money was put into the club to enable the latter signings we made, implying the earlier deals were based on us having a smaller budget when compared to what we've ended up spending. They certainly seem to have been caught out by the inflation of transfer fees and wages in League One.

One thing that's worried me in this aspect is the over-dependence on AI. At one of the Q&A events I went to (may have been Carey's), it was mentioned the club doesn't have many scouts and was using AI to find players. The obvious concern is it's almost impossible for any club to accurately assess players in person, due to the limited resources in this area - I don't see how you can judge personalities; or mental attributes via AI. AI may be good at identifying players who should be looked at, but that's its limit and there still needs to be a serious assessment of players done by scouts; the recruitment team; the management team; etc.

On players being signed for the development teams, the Head of Youth Development would absolutely be involved in that decision. Although, again, we don't know whether that's merely veto power or direct selection of players.

Over-dependence on AI is a good point to bring up, Sheffield United did the same and ended up losing 11 of their first 15 games.

[Sutekh]

Who is this Lewis Joel bloke? Presume he’s injured thus the lack of game time.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

As a long time fan (1970) and current ST holder (swayed by the optimism of the Redwood regime) I've been mulling over the woeful POSH performance and the big decision to a) go out tomorrow vs Luton on a cold wet night b) pick between two other better things to do.

What has gone wrong and why ?

The key actors in this sorry saga
1) Rob Couhig - not flush with cash, focus on sensible spending, get players in on the cheap . Nothing wrong with that. Good at communications and heart in the right place based on what he says - the desire to flip the club and move a profit is fine with me. But Is he really a football man though? Understood well in advance that there would be a massive squad shortfall at the end of last season

2) Noel Hunt - should have been clear to new ownership from even before they finalised the sale that
a) he has never built a team
b) never introduced a style of play
Because as realistically being just an U21 / "reserve" team boss he has style of play dictated to him by the manager, so players can move up to the first team and fit in. I would guess the recruits into the Academy system are largely handled by others even down to kids level, though he would have some influence on who to bin off at U16 level U18 level U21 but in conjunction wth more senoir staff members (Manager, Academy staff etc)
His success last season was largely following the model set in place by Selles

3) Brian Carey and Recruitment Team - in a workplace environment HR/Recruitment source and screen candidates for interview based on the requirements defined by the Hiring manager - in this case the key requirements seem to be > we need lots of bodies > "good lads" > cheap wages. BC and team then follow up on that and it seems do a decent job of finding players to "interview". its not their role to define the type of player need - there role is to find players that match the spec.

4) Supporting Cast - Lewis Wing and Joel P. A no brainer to get these two signed early. Lots of good talk from RC probably helped.

5) Joe Jacobson - No coaching or mangerial experience. Solid lower level player. Does a football business course - gets hired as Robs man on the ground. My guess his focus is keeping Rob happy, doing the things in his job spec to keep his job. Sorting out fireworks - tick that box. I would assume he is the final sanction / approval to sign a player.

6) Leam Richardson - excuses from day one - fitness availability quality, 2/3 windows etc. Bad mouth (in code) everything before him, expectation setting saying basically its not my fault if we go down and I'm a hero if I keep us up.

My concerns
1) Did Joe seriously challenge Noel on each player in the frame and critically how they would fit the jigsaw. How would they compliment the talents of Lewis Joel and Charlie Savage - the core to build a team around. Paudie on paper has a good CV - in a back five - so what was the next critical signing to allow him to flourish and exploit his strengths and well as compensating for his weaknesses.

2) Did Joe ever go back to Rob and challenge him on budgets (not in total but allocation across players). We heard him follow the the corporate speak about "getting more bodies in the building". Why not fewer, but better, perhaps younger players in - dont get 3 bodies get 2 and pay them 50% more? Would he want to have very difficult and challenging conversations early with his new boss - or toe the line and get bodies in so that box is ticked

3) I suspect Lewis Joel and Charlie are not at all happy and the first two perhaps regret signing up on the "promise". If any got an offer to jump ship in January pretty sure they'd take it. Lewis Wing can see his career going backwards week by week.

4) Noel Hunt sacking - at this moment seems counter productive - but can understand the decision if not the timing

5) Internal Tensions and Politics - JJ must be fuming regarding LR and his subtle "recruitment was crap" as surely he owns that , LR has a free pass at the moment and is going to exploit it as long as possible

In the absence of a proper DOF Joe J must surely own that role and has a lot to answer for.

Would things be a lot better/different if Mark Bowen were still here.......................

Rob has almost admitted he should have sacked Noel immedately after takeover. I suspect Leams experience maybe would have resulted in a better squad for his preferred style - though not sure Lewis Wing would want to be part of that team

Outcome - end of this season 13 players under contract
Contracted to June 2027 (approx age at contract end)
1) Richie (37)
2) Williams D (35)
3) Stevens (29)
4) Fraser (28)
5) Danny K (25)
6) Savage (25)
7) Kelvin E (23)
8 ) Ahmed (19)
Contracted to 2028
9) Joel P (31)
10) Marrriot (33)
11) WIng (32)
12) Lane (26)
Contracted to 2029
13) O'Connor (31)

Good post.

[Forbury Lion]

A good read.

Everytime I head DoF mentioned, I wonder what Nicky Hammond's up to... probably still selling rubbish players for millions to Derby or Sunderland and buying star players for peanuts.... I'd welcome him back if he could pull a few more rabbits out of the hat.

[Mid Sussex Royal]

The usual role of the director of football is understand and work with the player budget set by those above, negotiate player contracts and negotiate transfer fees in.

The player budget this season has been heavily influenced by the new EFL spending rules in place in L1, Couhig mentioned on more than one occasion having to negotiate with the EFL.

On transfers out, the only player we've sold under contract since JJ took over is Knibbs and it was generally accepted that the fee received was at the top end of what was expected.

[Sutekh]

The usual role of the director of football is understand and work with the player budget set by those above, negotiate player contracts and negotiate transfer fees in.

The player budget this season has been heavily influenced by the new EFL spending rules in place in L1, Couhig mentioned on more than one occasion having to negotiate with the EFL.

On transfers out, the only player we've sold under contract since JJ took over is Knibbs and it was generally accepted that the fee received was at the top end of what was expected.

Don’t think his fee has been agreed at all yet, believe we’re still waiting for a tribunal decision. So in the end it’ll probably be halfway between what Charlton finally offered and what Reading wanted.

[Snowflake Royal]

The usual role of the director of football is understand and work with the player budget set by those above, negotiate player contracts and negotiate transfer fees in.

The player budget this season has been heavily influenced by the new EFL spending rules in place in L1, Couhig mentioned on more than one occasion having to negotiate with the EFL.

On transfers out, the only player we've sold under contract since JJ took over is Knibbs and it was generally accepted that the fee received was at the top end of what was expected.

Don’t think his fee has been agreed at all yet, believe we’re still waiting for a tribunal decision. So in the end it’ll probably be halfway between what Charlton finally offered and what Reading wanted.

He was under contract, he couldn’t go anywhere if we didn’t agree the fee.

You're confusing it with Mbengue, who was not under contract, but we're due a development settlement that couldn't be agreed so is going to tribunal

[tidus_mi2]

The usual role of the director of football is understand and work with the player budget set by those above, negotiate player contracts and negotiate transfer fees in.

The player budget this season has been heavily influenced by the new EFL spending rules in place in L1, Couhig mentioned on more than one occasion having to negotiate with the EFL.

On transfers out, the only player we've sold under contract since JJ took over is Knibbs and it was generally accepted that the fee received was at the top end of what was expected.

Don’t think his fee has been agreed at all yet, believe we’re still waiting for a tribunal decision. So in the end it’ll probably be halfway between what Charlton finally offered and what Reading wanted.

Knibbs was under contract so don't think a tribunal would be involved, right? Mbengue was definitely still being discussed and I believe went to tribunal.

Snowflake beat me to it but I didn't want to discard my post after writing it!

[Sutekh]

Sure Couhig said at one of his Q&As that both fees for Knibbs and Mbengue had not yet been agreed and had to go to tribunals, of course he may have been mistaken on these things but presume he’d be on top of the financial side of things.

[Snowflake Royal]

Wareham and Craig would likely be the same as Mbengue. More likely you're confusing one of those with Knibbs I'd have thought.

How would Knibbs have moved to Charlton if he is under contract and a fee isn't agreed? We had his registration. When else has a player under contract left and the fee been set by tribunal?

[Clyde1998]

Wareham and Craig would likely be the same as Mbengue. More likely you're confusing one of those with Knibbs I'd have thought.

How would Knibbs have moved to Charlton if he is under contract and a fee isn't agreed? We had his registration. When else has a player under contract left and the fee been set by tribunal?

That's only true if the clubs involved can't agree a fee between them. The Mbengue one is certainly ongoing, as Reading believed we should be getting more than QPR have offered.

Don't know about Wareham or Craig, but fees from them could've been agreed between Exeter and Leyton Orient respectively and ourselves - so wouldn't go to tribunal.

[Orion1871]

Sure Couhig said at one of his Q&As that both fees for Knibbs and Mbengue had not yet been agreed and had to go to tribunals, of course he may have been mistaken on these things but presume he’d be on top of the financial side of things.

I think you may have to go back, have a listen to this Q&A and check how "sure" you are. Because a tribunal fee for a player in contract makes zero sense.

[Orion1871]

Yes, he is a liability. The situation this club is in, having to recover from Dai, is too big of a job for a rookie CEO who is learning on the job.

Couhig is allegedly sharing the CEO duties with him, but I don't see how that doesn't create an issue having a guy who is your boss be sharing your job with you.