Assists

[Irvinchangeyaname]

well hope S.hunt dont go!!

Where did you go to school?

Whereever it was you can rest assured that it was approved.

I like the fact that you only quoted the first half of the post. Did you think this was much better??!!!.....

but were doing k hope but will never be as gd as our promation season!!

[bigmike]

well hope S.hunt dont go!!

but were doing k hope but will never be as gd as our promation season!!

LMAO

The english education system at its best

[Garrincha]

With the possible departure of Stephen Hunt I thought it would be interesting to compare the assists provided by wide players and full backs this season compared to 2005/6.

2005/6
Little 14
Shorey 11
Convey 10
Hunt 6
Oster 4
Murty 1 - total 46

So far 2008/9
Hunt 16
Kebe 8
Rose 3
Armstrong 2
Henry 1
Convey 1 - total 31

The figures are a bit weighted by the fact that Shorey was the main corner taker in 05/06 whwereas Hunt is today but it does make interesting reading.

Hunt already has more assists than Little did all season. Kebe is doing well with 8.

But most significantly our three leading assist providers that season are effectively no longer with us (Convey excepted). I hope that even if Stephen Hunt does go someone else will step up and take his place providing assists just as he took over from Convey.

Can you do the same table but assists in open play ? You'll get a very different picture then and it will be a more valuable one in terms of player contributions.
Also, a small point, but Convey has 2 this year. Sonko header at Charlton and NHunt v S. Wed. In terms of assists per minutes on the pitch he is probably our star man

Just to re-iterate the above observation please could somebody provide figures for assists in open play as this will show the TRUE value of SHUNT...

Thanks

[Hoop Blah]

With the possible departure of Stephen Hunt I thought it would be interesting to compare the assists provided by wide players and full backs this season compared to 2005/6.

2005/6
Little 14
Shorey 11
Convey 10
Hunt 6
Oster 4
Murty 1 - total 46

So far 2008/9
Hunt 16
Kebe 8
Rose 3
Armstrong 2
Henry 1
Convey 1 - total 31

The figures are a bit weighted by the fact that Shorey was the main corner taker in 05/06 whwereas Hunt is today but it does make interesting reading.

Hunt already has more assists than Little did all season. Kebe is doing well with 8.

But most significantly our three leading assist providers that season are effectively no longer with us (Convey excepted). I hope that even if Stephen Hunt does go someone else will step up and take his place providing assists just as he took over from Convey.

Can you do the same table but assists in open play ? You'll get a very different picture then and it will be a more valuable one in terms of player contributions.
Also, a small point, but Convey has 2 this year. Sonko header at Charlton and NHunt v S. Wed. In terms of assists per minutes on the pitch he is probably our star man

Just to re-iterate the above observation please could somebody provide figures for assists in open play as this will show the TRUE value of SHUNT...

Thanks

It will show a different view of Hunt.

Stats can't show you the true value of any players because football can't be measured by statistics.

[Ian Royal]

Please can someone explain how assists from set pieces, especially corners are somehow less valuable than assists from open play.

I don't see the goals counting less, or the points being worth less. You can't assume that another player will step into the void and still provide them. You wouldn't from open play so why should you for set pieces.

The simple fact of the matter is, with Hunt taking set pieces this season we are scoring a ridiculously high number of goals from them. Something we haven't done before and somethign there is no justification in thinking we will continue to do without Hunt taking them.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Not too long ago we were right up there with goals scored from set pieces

I remember it being a bit of a shock stat, I think from our first season in the Prem, but we were top 2 or 3 or there abouts

How many goals have we scored from set pieces this season?

How many have other teams?

[papereyes]

Stats can't show you the true value of any players because football can't be measured by statistics.

Yes it can.

What answers you get out of it depends on what questions you ask of the statistics.

Most people use pretty meaningless stats and utterly rape them of any value.

Most football clubs nowadays spend a lot of money on collection and analysis of detailed statistics of their games.

[Baines]

Stats can't show you the true value of any players because football can't be measured by statistics.

Yes it can.

What answers you get out of it depends on what questions you ask of the statistics.

Most people use pretty meaningless stats and utterly rape them of any value.

Most football clubs nowadays spend a lot of money on collection and analysis of detailed statistics of their games.

Now's the time to post that link to the German team from the 90s, whose name I have forgotten.


Although I think there is a pretty big difference between the Moneyball style application of statistics to baseball and the use of statistics in football.

[papereyes]

Freiburg

I have been reading about a Dynamo Kiev side that worked along similar lines.

Although I think there is a pretty big difference between the Moneyball style application of statistics to baseball and the use of statistics in football.

Definitely but as ... who was it ... someone said "If it gives us a 5 % advantage, then we have to take it. That could keep us up".

I think his side still went down, but anyway.

[papereyes]

These are the stats that they* think are worth measuring.

1. Number of touches

A measurement of how often a player is involved on the ball

What it reveals Player's fitness level, the number of times he gets into a position to receive the ball and team-mates' willingness to pass to him

2. Shot creation

The number of times a player participates in a possession leading to a shot (both on target and off)

Reveals The attacking effectiveness of a player, especially attacking midfielders and forwards. Measures ability to balance ball retention with creating scoring chances

3. Ability to retain the ball

A measurement of the probability that the next player who touches the ball will be a member of your team

Reveals Contribution of players who are less directly involved in attack

4. Balls won per 90 minutes

Measures defensive effectiveness

Reveals Attacking players' willingness to defend; defenders' ability to tackle, intercept passes and position themselves well.

*they = Billy Beane, the Moneyball guy.

[Ian Royal]

Not too long ago we were right up there with goals scored from set pieces

I remember it being a bit of a shock stat, I think from our first season in the Prem, but we were top 2 or 3 or there abouts

How many goals have we scored from set pieces this season?

How many have other teams?

wasn't it with only about 6 or 7 goals from corners though? I seem to recall the number of goals scored from corners is usually ridiculously low given the number of corners taken in a season by any one team.

[SCIAG]

Freiburg

I have been reading about a Dynamo Kiev side that worked along similar lines.

Although I think there is a pretty big difference between the Moneyball style application of statistics to baseball and the use of statistics in football.

Definitely but as ... who was it ... someone said "If it gives us a 5 % advantage, then we have to take it. That could keep us up".

I think his side still went down, but anyway.

Sam Allerdyce?

[Millsy]

So far 2008/9
Hunt 16
Kebe 8
Rose 3
Armstrong 2
Henry 1
Convey 1 - total 31

Hunt already has more assists than Little did all season. Kebe is doing well with 8.

But of course the brainy know-it-all superanalysts of the the beautiful game so commonly found on HNA will tell you Kebe is a total waste of space.

[Snowball]

Just to re-iterate the above observation please could somebody provide figures for assists in open play as this will show the TRUE value of SHUNT...

Thanks

6 Corners
3 Free Kicks
2 rebounds from Hunts shots
4 crosses
1 Flick (Armstrong's goal)
1 break/pass

4 penalties
2 other goals


Break/Pass Doyle SWANSEA
Clever Flick Armstrong WATFORD
Corner Sonko PLYMOUTH Kebe won corner
Corner Sonko PLYMOUTH Lita won corner
Corner Doyle PALACE
Corner Doyle PALACE
Corner Noel Hunt SWANSEA
Corner Noel Hunt DERBY
Cross O-G Wolves
Cross Doyle DERBY
Cross Noel Hunt COVENTRY
FREE KICK Bikey Wednesday
FREE KICK Doyle Sheff Utd
FREE KICK Doyle Birmingham
GOAL (shot) Hunt SWANSEA
GOAL (Header) Hunt
GOAL (Penalty) Hunt Charlton
GOAL (Penalty) Hunt Watford
GOAL (Penalty) Hunt BURNLEY
GOAL (Penalty) Hunt NORWICH
Low cross Gunnerson Cardiff
Shot, saved to Harpur PALACE
Shot, saved to Doyle Bristol

[Ian Royal]

Given the amount of goals scored during penalty area pinball we've had this season I wouldn't be surprised if a fair few more crosses from SHunt had resulted in goals after several more touches were taken.

Same for Kebe, although possibly to a lesser extent as he (in my perception at least) seems to get a cross in a much lower percentage of his opportunities than SHunt does.

That could just be because when he fails to put a cross in it tends to be a bit more spectacularly dissapointing than SHunt.

[papereyes]

Freiburg

I have been reading about a Dynamo Kiev side that worked along similar lines.

Although I think there is a pretty big difference between the Moneyball style application of statistics to baseball and the use of statistics in football.

Definitely but as ... who was it ... someone said "If it gives us a 5 % advantage, then we have to take it. That could keep us up".

I think his side still went down, but anyway.

Sam Allerdyce?

Oddly, since Allardyce took Bolton up in 2001, they've stayed up.

It does sound like an Allardyce quote though.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Not too long ago we were right up there with goals scored from set pieces

I remember it being a bit of a shock stat, I think from our first season in the Prem, but we were top 2 or 3 or there abouts

How many goals have we scored from set pieces this season?

How many have other teams?

wasn't it with only about 6 or 7 goals from corners though? I seem to recall the number of goals scored from corners is usually ridiculously low given the number of corners taken in a season by any one team.

Can't rememeber the numbers involved, but are we atcually scoring this "ridiculously high number of goals from them."

And is it actually "Something we haven't done before"

I've not seen anything to think thats really the case, but if the stats do show that up then fair enough. At the moment I dont see that being the case

[Snowball]

Please can someone explain how assists from set pieces, especially corners are somehow less valuable than assists from open play.

The goals are not more valuable, BUT, if one player takes all the corners, and all the free-kicks he will get more assists by default.

Similarly if a player is the regular penalty-taker that ups his goals-for column

Assists in open play tell a very different picture. I like Hunt a lot, but I was shocked to see how rarely, in open play, he actually makes a goal

6 deliberate, and two where his shot rebounded.

That's "OK" but a lot different from 16


Of course these things are not all of the picture. He wins ball, tackles back, has stopped some goals
and he did a brilliant dummy which gave Armstrong the chance to cross, and we got a goal from that.

[Garrincha]

Please can someone explain how assists from set pieces, especially corners are somehow less valuable than assists from open play.

The goals are not more valuable, BUT, if one player takes all the corners, and all the free-kicks he will get more assists by default.

Similarly if a player is the regular penalty-taker that ups his goals-for column

Assists in open play tell a very different picture. I like Hunt a lot, but I was shocked to see how rarely, in open play, he actually makes a goal

6 deliberate, and two where his shot rebounded.

That's "OK" but a lot different from 16


Of course these things are not all of the picture. He wins ball, tackles back, has stopped some goals
and he did a brilliant dummy which gave Armstrong the chance to cross, and we got a goal from that.

Doubt we'll be discussing this thread for much longer as SHunt will be signing for Wigan for approx £5m within the next week.

[Snowball]

Assists in Open Play

9 in 24 (01) starts Kebe
6 in 28 (00) starts Steve Hunt
4 in 28 (00) starts Doyle
3 in 03 (20) starts Long
2 in 28 (00) starts Rosenior
2 in 22 (05) starts Noel Hunt
2 in 03 (03) starts Convey
1 in 20 (04) starts Harpur
1 in 04 (00) starts Pearce
1 in 03 (02) starts Lita (won pen)
1 in 09 (00) starts Duberry
1 in 25 (00) starts Armstrong
1 in 03 (04) starts Henry

Kebe is the best goal-maker in actual assists and even better because he's played 4 less games.

Same for Kebe, although possibly to a lesser extent as he (in my perception at least) seems to get a cross in a much lower percentage of his opportunities than SHunt does.

Absolutely NOT the case

In Twenty-FOUR starts
Kebe has made four goals from crosses, one more from "a dinked cross" (Doobs) = 5
On top of that Kebe had that BRILLIANT run away at Cardiff, then cut the ball back unselfishly for Doyle to side-foot in...
He has also made two goals with headed passes, and one with a pull-back.

That's NINE assists in open play from Kebe, not 8 as the stats say.

If you call the Cardiff one a cross that's a cross-leading-to-a-goal every four games




Hunt has made just 4 crosses for goals 1 clever flick and one break-and-pass SIX assists.
He's also had two of his shots rebound for goals

or one cross-leading-to-a-goal every SEVEN games.


Kebe makes more goals than Hunt from crosses in open play. FACT

Doyle's stats are impressive. On top of his 17 goals and great hold-up play he
has also made four goals with crosses or passes

THREE STARTS
As well as scoring 3 times, Long has also won two penalties and made a goal for Cisse

Liam 2 crosses
Harps 2, a free kick and a through ball to Lita that cost me £1,320

Armstrong, Henry, Doobs, Pearce, Cisse, Hanneman, Lita one each (Lita won dodgy penalty v Palace)