Financial Fair Play

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Hound
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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hound » 10 Jun 2019 07:51

It’s a weird one. Don’t think selling Moore on its own would exactly solve all our issues. Unless it’s for something like 12-15m which it surely wouldn’t be

I do have a feeling it’s more likely some FFP dodge he is referring to.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Jun 2019 18:00

Hound It’s a weird one. Don’t think selling Moore on its own would exactly solve all our issues. Unless it’s for something like 12-15m which it surely wouldn’t be

I do have a feeling it’s more likely some FFP dodge he is referring to.

Sponsorship being the obvious one.

Dont think Moore would solve all our problems at all, but £7m would cover the vast majority of what I'm optimistic last season's loss was. Plus he signed an improved deal in the summer after being told he couldn't move so conceivably on £25k - £35k a week which would also help take the edge off the budget a little.

At least enough to free up a little bargain basement early deals.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Zip » 10 Jun 2019 18:09

Snowflake Royal Worrying we're told there's a self imposed embargo and then the second a Moore rumour turns up it's lifted.

Don't get me wrong, he's got to be close to our highest earner and almost certainly getting paid well above his value. He's also one of our most valuable players to sell, but we're so chronically short at CB I wouldn't want to sell him even though he's probably the single biggest wages off the bill / incoming transfer fee combination we could get.

I feel there are other players who could command multi- millions we'd miss far less *coughSwiftcough*


He is the only senior centre back we have left. I really hope he stays and as you intimate would much rather see Swift go to bring in funds.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by URZZZZ » 11 Jun 2019 00:58

Zip
Snowflake Royal Worrying we're told there's a self imposed embargo and then the second a Moore rumour turns up it's lifted.

Don't get me wrong, he's got to be close to our highest earner and almost certainly getting paid well above his value. He's also one of our most valuable players to sell, but we're so chronically short at CB I wouldn't want to sell him even though he's probably the single biggest wages off the bill / incoming transfer fee combination we could get.

I feel there are other players who could command multi- millions we'd miss far less *coughSwiftcough*


He is the only senior centre back we have left. I really hope he stays and as you intimate would much rather see Swift go to bring in funds.


For me, the hard thing with Swift is trying to deduce his potential. I think the right manager could seriously "fix" his faults and he'd grow into a top player (Bielsa at Leeds springs to mind). Swift could still go quite far. However, by the same token, if he doesn't fix his faults, he'll consistently be a lower Championship player

Moore, on the other hand, will always be a high Champ/low Prem defender but no more. I find it very hard to believe any manager can sort out his poor ball retention skills (perfect fit for a Burnley mould IMO)

It's about whether we take that risk with Swift that he can grow into a top player (for example his pass against Brentford would never be done by any ordinary Champ midfielder) or cash in now

Would preferable keep both and see "another player" who could command multi-millions but we'll see

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Denver Royal
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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Denver Royal » 11 Jun 2019 01:04

Wallsy, welcome to HNA!
You’re new in here a few weeks ago? How long have you been a Reading fan?
You’ve had some good insight.


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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Denver Royal » 11 Jun 2019 01:14

The ‘Swift to Leeds for 8 mil’ seems to have gone quiet, and if nothing else comes in, I’ll be ok if Gomes gets another season with him and see how it goes.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by URZZZZ » 17 Jun 2019 21:04

Under a “light” transfer embargo at the moment according to the Sun

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Zip » 17 Jun 2019 21:11

URZZZZ Under a “light” transfer embargo at the moment according to the Sun


Yep. We need permission from the EFL to buy players. Those players not wanted by the club can report for training a week later than the rest and will train with the under 23’s. So that will include the likes of Popa and Meyler and maybe even McNulty.
To think we would have given Gourlay a pay off for causing so much damage.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Wallsy » 17 Jun 2019 23:31

I’m fully expecting the club to take another hard line, as we did in January, to get players out.

Gourlay has caused long lasting damage to this club, and needs must.

The likes of Gunter, perhaps McCleary, need to move on. Big earners and neither required or as useful to us as they once were. Kelly another big earner can go. He clearly doesn’t fit into Jose’s team.

My early pre-season optimism has all but gone for now. It’s hard to see us bringing Oliveira back under these conditions. He must be a £3-4m fee. With a bit of luck Norwich will allow us to spread the fee over 2-3 years but if not I can’t see it happening.

The big summer for the young lads may have just got a lot bigger!
Last edited by Wallsy on 18 Jun 2019 09:56, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Maneki Neko » 18 Jun 2019 09:00

what a mess

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hound » 18 Jun 2019 10:01

yes, its fairly desperate times. What is the most frustrating is a lot of it will have cleared up by this time next year, when the likes of Meyler, GMac, Gunter will also be out of contract.

Gourlay and co have created a horrible mess and unfortunately the new regime are left to pick up the pieces. It could well be a very long season

We're probably again relying on some very creative loan signings and U23s coming good

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by John Smith » 18 Jun 2019 10:44

Hound yes, its fairly desperate times. What is the most frustrating is a lot of it will have cleared up by this time next year, when the likes of Meyler, GMac, Gunter will also be out of contract.

Gourlay and co have created a horrible mess and unfortunately the new regime are left to pick up the pieces. It could well be a very long season

We're probably again relying on some very creative loan signings and U23s coming good

As things stand, do you see us surviving next season? Or could it be that we have to wait till January again to recruit enough to keep us up?

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hound » 18 Jun 2019 11:11

I can't see us being particularly successful. Depends largely on if Gomes is happy to hang around. If so, lower mid table still achievable if the youngsters are as good as we hope.

There's still a basis of a reasonable team there, but some glaring holes (CB, GK) as well


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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Greatwesternline » 18 Jun 2019 12:11

Wallsy I’m fully expecting the club to take another hard line, as we did in January, to get players out.

Gourlay has caused long lasting damage to this club, and needs must.

The likes of Gunter, perhaps McCleary, need to move on. Big earners and neither required or as useful to us as they once were. Kelly another big earner can go. He clearly doesn’t fit into Jose’s team.

My early pre-season optimism has all but gone for now. It’s hard to see us bringing Oliveira back under these conditions. He must be a £3-4m fee. With a bit of luck Norwich will allow us to spread the fee over 2-3 years but if not I can’t see it happening.

The big summer for the young lads may have just got a lot bigger!


Just a note on "spreading costs over 2-3 years. That happens anyway. FFP relates to your accounting losses, not cashflow. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the length of the contract, not when you buy him. We have no reported cashflow problem, just an allowed accounting loss problem. In addition, when you sell a player, you don't recognise all of that cash as profit. Its only profit above what you have them valued for in your books.

Example, buy aluko for 8 million on 4 year deal.
After 2 years, he is worth 4 million in your books because you have written down (amortised) his contract by two years worth of £2m a year, his purchase has so far cost you £4m in your accounts.
If you sell him for £1m after 2 years, you've not helped bring £1m in, you have crystalised a £3m loss. Which makes your FFP look even worse.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Sutekh » 18 Jun 2019 12:28

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/spor ... o-reports/

Embargo lasts until end of June.

Players not part of JG's plans will report back a week later (8th July) and train with the U23s.

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John Smith
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Re: Financial Fair Play

by John Smith » 18 Jun 2019 14:26

Sutekh https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/sport/17712821.reading-placed-under-soft-transfer-embargo-for-the-remainder-of-june-according-to-reports/

Embargo lasts until end of June.

Players not part of JG's plans will report back a week later (8th July) and train with the U23s.

What if we can't get rid of them? Is there any danger whatsoever of David Meyler making another appearance in a Reading shirt?

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Winston Biscuit » 18 Jun 2019 14:51

glad I have not renewed my season ticket

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by muirinho » 18 Jun 2019 15:17

Greatwesternline
Wallsy I’m fully expecting the club to take another hard line, as we did in January, to get players out.

Gourlay has caused long lasting damage to this club, and needs must.

The likes of Gunter, perhaps McCleary, need to move on. Big earners and neither required or as useful to us as they once were. Kelly another big earner can go. He clearly doesn’t fit into Jose’s team.

My early pre-season optimism has all but gone for now. It’s hard to see us bringing Oliveira back under these conditions. He must be a £3-4m fee. With a bit of luck Norwich will allow us to spread the fee over 2-3 years but if not I can’t see it happening.

The big summer for the young lads may have just got a lot bigger!


Just a note on "spreading costs over 2-3 years. That happens anyway. FFP relates to your accounting losses, not cashflow. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the length of the contract, not when you buy him. We have no reported cashflow problem, just an allowed accounting loss problem. In addition, when you sell a player, you don't recognise all of that cash as profit. Its only profit above what you have them valued for in your books.

Example, buy aluko for 8 million on 4 year deal.
After 2 years, he is worth 4 million in your books because you have written down (amortised) his contract by two years worth of £2m a year, his purchase has so far cost you £4m in your accounts.
If you sell him for £1m after 2 years, you've not helped bring £1m in, you have crystalised a £3m loss. Which makes your FFP look even worse.


This is true. FFP Accounts are not the same as Club Accounts.

Weirdly, that may be why players were given 4 years contract to begin with.
Buy a player for £8mill and pay him 15k a week for 4 years. Cost £2.75 mill per year (FFP).
Buy a player for £5mill and give him a 2 year contract of 0.5 mill a year (10K a week) - FFP cost - £3 million per year!

Note that it also means from an FFP point of view, players that came in on a free, or signed extensions after their original contract expired (e.g., Gunter, McCleary) don't have a cost, other than their salaries, on the books. So if you sell one of them for £250K, that is actually £250K FFP profit. Can't remember how much Blackett cost (£2m?) but his worth will have been written down over the last 3 years of a 4 year contract. So selling him for anything over a quarter of what we paid for him is FFP profit.
Last edited by muirinho on 18 Jun 2019 16:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by paddy20 » 18 Jun 2019 15:43

I think the soft embargo has been imposed as they are waiting for the accounts y/e June 19. Hence the embargo until end of June. Now we won't have the finalised figures at that date but there should be some management accounts giving a guide to the situation. This seems to be the only logical reason the embargo is only until then at the moment.

We have lost -17m over the last two years of published accounts so we have to hope that we haven't lost more than £22m in this last season. If we have then we could be deducted points before the start of the next season although they may look at the efforts being made and just keep a transfer embargo running for the next two windows.

Next season will be the biggest challenge as we can perhaps predict a loss at least £15m last season, in which case, we have to turn around that type of loss into almost a break even situation in one season

The big question is how on earth were senior management not able to predict this?? Thats not just bad management I think thats gross neglegence!

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Re: Financial Fair Play

by Maneki Neko » 18 Jun 2019 15:58

people who don't know what theyre doing could easily look at the situation after the play off and think that this team and manager, Plus 17 million pounds worth of new players = promotion and its therefore worth the gamble.
Is was not.

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