Financial Fair Play

399 posts
User avatar
Green
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10051
Joined: 29 Jun 2012 13:28

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Green » 18 Jun 2019 17:20

Maneki Neko people who don't know what theyre doing

The worst kind of people.

Although I try and give them some slack, it can happen to best of us :?

paddy20
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1160
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 17:50
Location: Wokingham

Re: Financial Fair Play

by paddy20 » 18 Jun 2019 17:49

Maneki Neko people who don't know what theyre doing could easily look at the situation after the play off and think that this team and manager, Plus 17 million pounds worth of new players = promotion and its therefore worth the gamble.
Is was not.


Well thats true and clubs like bournemouth got away with it as they got promoted and the FFP rules weren't so strictly adhered to then.

sandman
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11798
Joined: 01 Oct 2008 18:25
Location: WE ARE NOT YOUR KIND

Re: Financial Fair Play

by sandman » 18 Jun 2019 21:36

The great Financial Fair Play con in full swing. Don't be surprised if the owners decided to walk away.

User avatar
Hendo
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5129
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 20:53

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hendo » 19 Jun 2019 09:29

sandman The great Financial Fair Play con in full swing. Don't be surprised if the owners decided to walk away.


I'd be very surprised if they walked away :|

User avatar
Maneki Neko
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 18201
Joined: 06 Jul 2015 00:19
Location: JAPAN! fcuk you all.

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Maneki Neko » 19 Jun 2019 09:45

sandman The great Financial Fair Play con in full swing. Don't be surprised if the owners decided to walk away.


who is the conman in this conspiracy theory?
the FA/league for bringing in FFP rules?
or are you saying the owners are pretending they have to adhere to FFP rules so they don't have to spend money?


biff
Member
Posts: 550
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 22:33

Re: Financial Fair Play

by biff » 19 Jun 2019 11:23

https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1141232038474858496

Succinct thread from the brilliant Martin Calladine. We're not looking too healthy.

Greatwesternline
Member
Posts: 983
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 14:36

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Greatwesternline » 19 Jun 2019 12:43

muirinho
Greatwesternline
Wallsy I’m fully expecting the club to take another hard line, as we did in January, to get players out.

Gourlay has caused long lasting damage to this club, and needs must.

The likes of Gunter, perhaps McCleary, need to move on. Big earners and neither required or as useful to us as they once were. Kelly another big earner can go. He clearly doesn’t fit into Jose’s team.

My early pre-season optimism has all but gone for now. It’s hard to see us bringing Oliveira back under these conditions. He must be a £3-4m fee. With a bit of luck Norwich will allow us to spread the fee over 2-3 years but if not I can’t see it happening.

The big summer for the young lads may have just got a lot bigger!


Just a note on "spreading costs over 2-3 years. That happens anyway. FFP relates to your accounting losses, not cashflow. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the length of the contract, not when you buy him. We have no reported cashflow problem, just an allowed accounting loss problem. In addition, when you sell a player, you don't recognise all of that cash as profit. Its only profit above what you have them valued for in your books.

Example, buy aluko for 8 million on 4 year deal.
After 2 years, he is worth 4 million in your books because you have written down (amortised) his contract by two years worth of £2m a year, his purchase has so far cost you £4m in your accounts.
If you sell him for £1m after 2 years, you've not helped bring £1m in, you have crystalised a £3m loss. Which makes your FFP look even worse.


This is true. FFP Accounts are not the same as Club Accounts.

Weirdly, that may be why players were given 4 years contract to begin with.
Buy a player for £8mill and pay him 15k a week for 4 years. Cost £2.75 mill per year (FFP).
Buy a player for £5mill and give him a 2 year contract of 0.5 mill a year (10K a week) - FFP cost - £3 million per year!

Note that it also means from an FFP point of view, players that came in on a free, or signed extensions after their original contract expired (e.g., Gunter, McCleary) don't have a cost, other than their salaries, on the books. So if you sell one of them for £250K, that is actually £250K FFP profit. Can't remember how much Blackett cost (£2m?) but his worth will have been written down over the last 3 years of a 4 year contract. So selling him for anything over a quarter of what we paid for him is FFP profit.


I reckon players brought in for free have signing on fees which are capitalised, not 100% sure though. Any football accountants out there no the accounting treatment for player signing on fees!?

#nichechat

muirinho
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1529
Joined: 20 Jan 2016 12:10

Re: Financial Fair Play

by muirinho » 19 Jun 2019 13:56

Greatwesternline
muirinho
Greatwesternline
Just a note on "spreading costs over 2-3 years. That happens anyway. FFP relates to your accounting losses, not cashflow. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the length of the contract, not when you buy him. We have no reported cashflow problem, just an allowed accounting loss problem. In addition, when you sell a player, you don't recognise all of that cash as profit. Its only profit above what you have them valued for in your books.

Example, buy aluko for 8 million on 4 year deal.
After 2 years, he is worth 4 million in your books because you have written down (amortised) his contract by two years worth of £2m a year, his purchase has so far cost you £4m in your accounts.
If you sell him for £1m after 2 years, you've not helped bring £1m in, you have crystalised a £3m loss. Which makes your FFP look even worse.


This is true. FFP Accounts are not the same as Club Accounts.

Weirdly, that may be why players were given 4 years contract to begin with.
Buy a player for £8mill and pay him 15k a week for 4 years. Cost £2.75 mill per year (FFP).
Buy a player for £5mill and give him a 2 year contract of 0.5 mill a year (10K a week) - FFP cost - £3 million per year!

Note that it also means from an FFP point of view, players that came in on a free, or signed extensions after their original contract expired (e.g., Gunter, McCleary) don't have a cost, other than their salaries, on the books. So if you sell one of them for £250K, that is actually £250K FFP profit. Can't remember how much Blackett cost (£2m?) but his worth will have been written down over the last 3 years of a 4 year contract. So selling him for anything over a quarter of what we paid for him is FFP profit.


I reckon players brought in for free have signing on fees which are capitalised, not 100% sure though. Any football accountants out there no the accounting treatment for player signing on fees!?

#nichechat


ah yes, that's true, I'd forgotten. Any costs associated with acquiring the player's registrations (including the parasite payments to the agent) would be capitalised as fixed assets, and then amortised over the length of the contract. So that would include sign-on bonuses.

So players on a free aren't really free. Cheaper, though.

User avatar
linkenholtroyal
Member
Posts: 977
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 16:18
Location: anywhere but where you want me

Re: Financial Fair Play

by linkenholtroyal » 19 Jun 2019 15:23

Does anyone else know other than us and Wednesday who else is under this soft embargo. weirdly it could work slightly in our favour if 5 or 6 teams are in the same situation. We have a strong youth system which other teams cant say they do. atleast we can replace gaps with good youth players and still field a team. I dont know what Wednesdays U23s are like are they in a worse boat than we are.


User avatar
Wallsy
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: 08 May 2019 15:42

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Wallsy » 19 Jun 2019 23:03

According to our fitness coach (for some unknown reason he decided to respond to a fan account on Twitter called Reading FC Bible) he said if we sell a player for £5m we can spend £5m on a new player(s). The tweet was pulled an hour or so later after some fans advised it could get the coach in trouble.

He (Rui) is on Instagram - rui_fix2move

paddy20
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1160
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 17:50
Location: Wokingham

Re: Financial Fair Play

by paddy20 » 20 Jun 2019 08:00

Wallsy According to our fitness coach (for some unknown reason he decided to respond to a fan account on Twitter called Reading FC Bible) he said if we sell a player for £5m we can spend £5m on a new player(s). The tweet was pulled an hour or so later after some fans advised it could get the coach in trouble.

He (Rui) is on Instagram - rui_fix2move


That makes sense

El Diablo
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: 03 Oct 2012 13:20

Re: Financial Fair Play

by El Diablo » 20 Jun 2019 13:57

biff https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1141232038474858496

Succinct thread from the brilliant Martin Calladine. We're not looking too healthy.


So, regurgitating a Lowe piece, with added on inacuracies ( failed to pay the players - not true - it was due to a HK Bank Holiday admin screw up) is hardly a ground breaking piece of journalism.

All that said - we all know we're sailing close to the wind, and we all know there will be Financially creative ways to ease this situation.

For instance, I note that Forest have sold one of their (underpar) players to Olympiakos ( both who share the same owner)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48683133

User avatar
maffff
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5374
Joined: 25 Nov 2010 09:22

Re: Financial Fair Play

by maffff » 20 Jun 2019 14:30

biff https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1141232038474858496

Succinct thread from the brilliant Martin Calladine. We're not looking too healthy.


Is it really? It's pretty lazy - and now I've stupidly engaged with him on twitter. Shouldn't argue with fools, only brings me down to their level.


Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11407
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hound » 20 Jun 2019 15:20

maffff
biff https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1141232038474858496

Succinct thread from the brilliant Martin Calladine. We're not looking too healthy.


Is it really? It's pretty lazy - and now I've stupidly engaged with him on twitter. Shouldn't argue with fools, only brings me down to their level.


yeah, rare agreed.

biff
Member
Posts: 550
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 22:33

Re: Financial Fair Play

by biff » 20 Jun 2019 17:58

maffff
biff https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1141232038474858496

Succinct thread from the brilliant Martin Calladine. We're not looking too healthy.


Is it really? It's pretty lazy - and now I've stupidly engaged with him on twitter. Shouldn't argue with fools, only brings me down to their level.

tbf reading the tête-à-tête, he's had your pants down.

User avatar
maffff
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5374
Joined: 25 Nov 2010 09:22

Re: Financial Fair Play

by maffff » 20 Jun 2019 21:46

Not at all. Only got the last word (presumably) as he blocked me.

biff
Member
Posts: 550
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 22:33

Re: Financial Fair Play

by biff » 21 Jun 2019 02:04

I blocked you years ago.

User avatar
tidus_mi2
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3721
Joined: 15 Jun 2012 15:24

Re: Financial Fair Play

by tidus_mi2 » 21 Jun 2019 19:23

I read that guy's responses and he doesn't say anything substantial and seems to want to make a big deal of that one week we missed payroll which was quickly rectified. Just a waste of space trying to sound dramatic imo.

User avatar
Wallsy
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: 08 May 2019 15:42

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Wallsy » 22 Jun 2019 01:42

So we heard last week that we promised the EFL we will sell players before the end of the month. I didn’t realise the significance of the end of the month, but some fans seem to think that means a refresh of FFP for the new season. Is that true? And if it is, and if we aren’t able to sell anyone or enough before the close of the month, I wonder what sort of penalty we could be in for?

Yikes!

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11407
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Financial Fair Play

by Hound » 22 Jun 2019 12:14

End of the season sounds about right. Contracts run to June

Very much doubt anything will happen if we haven’t sold anyone by then. We can’t make clubs buy our players and clearly working with the EFL as a mitigation

399 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yellowcoat2 and 12 guests

It is currently 13 Nov 2019 12:45