RFC accounts for 2021/2 published

[Green]

I presume you mean £400k a week?

It has been at this level for a number of years now. You'd think with all the restrictions we'd have had in place, we'd have seen this number drop significantly, especially in the last couple of years.

Read it as £2m a year, apols. How in the holy world of shit can a Champ/L1 club lose £400k a week?

I think the last accounts showed a ~£17m loss (~£20m excluding transfers). That's £384k per week excluding transfers, down from around £540k per week in the previous season (albeit that was Covid affected).

The problem has been trying to compete with clubs with parachute payments and much higher organic revenues than us when our parachute payments came to an end and our organic revenues were declining.

Well yes, and by trying to do that via unsustainable means which are against league regulations.

[Brogue]

Some people on Twitter says dai has written off £122m of debt. Others are saying no this is just the 6 mill that dai put into the club.

Anyone confirm what this means

[rabidbee]

Doesn't that mean he's created and purchased 11.5m new shares in (ie. injected £6m into) the company, valuing each share at 50p, and so giving the club a nominal value of £122.8m?

[Clyde1998]

Some people on Twitter says dai has written off £122m of debt. Others are saying no this is just the 6 mill that dai put into the club.

Anyone confirm what this means

I was initially confused by this, but as I understand it:

1. Number allotted is the number of new shares bought in this transaction.
2. Nominal value of each share is largely arbitrary and doesn't necessarily reflect the market rate - due to inflation, changes to market conditions, etc. The total nominal value of a shares held by a single person (ie. this number multiplied by the total number of shares held) is the minimum amount they are legally required to pay towards corporate debts should be company be wound up.
3. Amount paid is how much the new shares were purchased for.
4. Number allocated is the total number of shares in existence
5. Aggregate nominal value is the number allocated multiplied by the nominal value of each share. This reflects the legal amount of debt all shareholders combined would have to pay towards debts should the company be wound up.

So this is simply the £6m Dai has put into the club (number allocated multiplied by amount paid).

[Royals and Racers]

New posting on Companies house today with the heading ‘ resolutions’ which i cannot get anymore info on.

[Elm Park Kid]

It's perfectly possible though that he has just 'converted' £6m of his debt into shares. This is necessary because the club is only allowed to lose £13m a season in the Championship if the majority of it (I can't remember the exact figure) comes from owner investment, rather than loans.

I'm not an expert in this, but I'm assuming that the conversion process would involve creating and 'selling' the shares to Dai at the same time as the same amount of loan is 'repaid' to him.

I'm surprised to see that there are that many shares on the books though. It would suggest that he has put in £122m into the club over the period of his ownership. Though, that would include the original share purchase from the Thais.

Though, a few things that i've been told by reliable people suggest that Dai is no longer interested/capable of financing the club and he might has also done this in preparation for the sale/administration.

[Elm Park Kid]

Some people on Twitter says dai has written off £122m of debt. Others are saying no this is just the 6 mill that dai put into the club.

Anyone confirm what this means

Just to confirm - the club had 234m shares before the recent issuing on new shares, and now has 245m. So, he has only invested/converted £6m worth.

[Snowflake Royal]

It's perfectly possible though that he has just 'converted' £6m of his debt into shares. This is necessary because the club is only allowed to lose £13m a season in the Championship if the majority of it (I can't remember the exact figure) comes from owner investment, rather than loans.

I'm not an expert in this, but I'm assuming that the conversion process would involve creating and 'selling' the shares to Dai at the same time as the same amount of loan is 'repaid' to him.

I'm surprised to see that there are that many shares on the books though. It would suggest that he has put in £122m into the club over the period of his ownership. Though, that would include the original share purchase from the Thais.

Though, a few things that i've been told by reliable people suggest that Dai is no longer interested/capable of financing the club and he might has also done this in preparation for the sale/administration.

Over the course of his time in charge our wage bill has been approx:
£35m
£43m
£34m
£27m
£16m

So not including non-wage operating costs. Whilst our income has been around £15m x 5. Which seems to roughly cover just about our non-wage operating costs.

He's also bought the stadium and training ground off us, but sold the old training ground for development. And bought the new one and developed it.

I'd say he's probably put more like £200m+ into us (in debt to him), if I was estimating off that lot.

[Elm Park Kid]

It's perfectly possible though that he has just 'converted' £6m of his debt into shares. This is necessary because the club is only allowed to lose £13m a season in the Championship if the majority of it (I can't remember the exact figure) comes from owner investment, rather than loans.

I'm not an expert in this, but I'm assuming that the conversion process would involve creating and 'selling' the shares to Dai at the same time as the same amount of loan is 'repaid' to him.

I'm surprised to see that there are that many shares on the books though. It would suggest that he has put in £122m into the club over the period of his ownership. Though, that would include the original share purchase from the Thais.

Though, a few things that i've been told by reliable people suggest that Dai is no longer interested/capable of financing the club and he might has also done this in preparation for the sale/administration.

Over the course of his time in charge our wage bill has been approx:
£35m
£43m
£34m
£27m
£16m

So not including non-wage operating costs. Whilst our income has been around £15m x 5. Which seems to roughly cover just about our non-wage operating costs.

He's also bought the stadium and training ground off us, but sold the old training ground for development. And bought the new one and developed it.

I'd say he's probably put more like £200m+ into us (in debt to him), if I was estimating off that lot.

Yeah - I should have put 'at least £122m'.

[Lower West]

I'd say he's probably put more like £200m+ into us (in debt to him), if I was estimating off that lot.

Even for a billionaire on paper that's a lot of cash. Question is where did some of the money originate from?

[Snowflake Royal]

I'd say he's probably put more like £200m+ into us (in debt to him), if I was estimating off that lot.

Even for a billionaire on paper that's a lot of cash. Question is where did some of the money originate from?

He's a chinese billionaire who made his money buying bunkers and turning them into malls.

Corruption and graft.

[Lower West]

I'd say he's probably put more like £200m+ into us (in debt to him), if I was estimating off that lot.

Even for a billionaire on paper that's a lot of cash. Question is where did some of the money originate from?

He's a chinese billionaire who made his money buying bunkers and turning them into malls.

Corruption and graft.

There's ongoing forensic investigations going onto into a number of loans totalling £132 million in China. House built of cards.

[Clyde1998]

Article on our finances from Swiss Ramble: https://swissramble.substack.com/p/read ... ces-202122

[On Strings]

Article on our finances from Swiss Ramble: https://swissramble.substack.com/p/read ... ces-202122

For anyone that needs it after reading that article - Talking Therapies: https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/talkin ... therapies/

[PieEater]

Article on our finances from Swiss Ramble: https://swissramble.substack.com/p/read ... ces-202122

The club does appear to be in freefall, as it still has not recruited a permanent manager, more than two months since it parted company with Paul Ince.

That nails it.

[3points]

I was looking at a post on Twitter about Dai’s company in China being investigated for some potential loan fraud. Given China Dili (the new name for Renhe) is a public company then there’s quite a lot of info available when looking at various corporate announcements.

My take is that Dai has used his public company to buy 19% shares capital of a related (connected) Dai business and also made a loan of 2bn RMB (about £200m). This now looks like it is being investigated as the loan was made at a time when the public company didn’t own the shares in the private company. Putting 2&2 together I wonder if it is that loan money that has been used to fund RFC since 2019.

The public company still has its shares suspended from trading on the Chinese stock exchange while this investigation is ongoing. It started in Dec 22.

I think the club’s problems aren’t that he can’t get money out of China, but he hasn’t got any money left to get out.

The "getting money out of China" thing is also probably misleading. If you look at the various beneficiaries and owners of the shares and companies related to Dai Yongge they are nearly all registered or domiciled in Cayman or BVI (this includes the parent company of RFC and also the company that owns the stadium). This is probably why he's had money in these non-Chinese companies and has always been able to get money into the club. But my view is that well has now run dry and he needs money from China, which he can't get to.

If you look back at some of the history of the public company in China, there seems to be some questionable, related party/connected party transactions that have happened for years. Very intriguing web and probably one of the reasons why we never hear from him. Does beg a question as to how the EFL concluded he was a fit & proper person though!

[Brum Royal]

Therefore laundering dirty money into the club and having it owed back to him as clean money at point of sale? Am I reading you correctly?

[Sutekh]

I thought all club owners had to present a clear open business model to the FL for audit when buying a club so that ownership and money trails couldn't be hidden away in various places and it was clear who was involved and where the finances were coming from, but perhaps that's a bit like common sense and therefore a bit too much to expect.

[3points]

I thought all club owners had to present a clear open business model to the FL for audit when buying a club so that ownership and money trails couldn't be hidden away in various places and it was clear who was involved and where the finances were coming from, but perhaps that's a bit like common sense and therefore a bit too much to expect.

but that is at the time of purchase. What happens two years later? Who knows what the controls are at that point? Seemingly very little

[3points]

Therefore laundering dirty money into the club and having it owed back to him as clean money at point of sale? Am I reading you correctly?

that is one intepretation. But laundering is normally dirty money from the proceeds of crime (eg drugs, arms, etc).

My take is you borrow money for a company you own (which looks like it was originally owned by the public company that you still own >50%), get it guaranteed by a public company (which you own >50%), use it for a personal folly (funding a football club) and then can't pay it back. I'd say that borders on fraud (hence the ongoing investigation) but not really money laundering