Royal Elm Park - A Missed Opportunity?

[Royal_jimmy]

One that's gone quiet for a while now.

There's one thing that keeps irking on my mind about this development. Didn't the Thai's say the club would benefit from this financially with a constant income stream when it's built?

I never like pointing the finger to someone who gave us the most successful period in the clubs history, but can't help but think John Madejski missed a trick with this one when he owned the club. I'm sure when getting his money back he'd have let the club get a permanent revenue source from this to fund the club (playing squads etc) from property rents etc. Especially as a commercial man and with Nigel Howe on the board at the time. The club could have made £3-5m potentially in income per year from this, not lots but would have paid for some of the upkeep to the club.

Instead we gave the land away when SJM sold to the Thai's and didn't do anything with it ourselves.

[Delboy]

Simple it was dropped as not viable

[Sutekh]

Still not convinced this development will ever actually happen so maybe one day the club will be able to buy the land back!

[tidus_mi2]

One that's gone quiet for a while now.

There's one thing that keeps irking on my mind about this development. Didn't the Thai's say the club would benefit from this financially with a constant income stream when it's built?

I never like pointing the finger to someone who gave us the most successful period in the clubs history, but can't help but think John Madejski missed a trick with this one when he owned the club. I'm sure when getting his money back he'd have let the club get a permanent revenue source from this to fund the club (playing squads etc) from property rents etc. Especially as a commercial man and with Nigel Howe on the board at the time. The club could have made £3-5m potentially in income per year from this, not lots but would have paid for some of the upkeep to the club.

Instead we gave the land away when SJM sold to the Thai's and didn't do anything with it ourselves.

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

[Dirk Gently]

Instead we gave the land away ...

... when SJM sold to the Thai's

Make your mind up.

[Dirk Gently]

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

Aren't income from a hotel and a conference centre non-football related sources?

[tidus_mi2]

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

Aren't income from a hotel and a conference centre non-football related sources?

Well the thing I'm getting at, is why don't other clubs have multiple external investments to supplement income if it's something your allowed to do, or do they potentially already do that?

[PATRIQT]

One that's gone quiet for a while now.

There's one thing that keeps irking on my mind about this development. Didn't the Thai's say the club would benefit from this financially with a constant income stream when it's built?

I never like pointing the finger to someone who gave us the most successful period in the clubs history, but can't help but think John Madejski missed a trick with this one when he owned the club. I'm sure when getting his money back he'd have let the club get a permanent revenue source from this to fund the club (playing squads etc) from property rents etc. Especially as a commercial man and with Nigel Howe on the board at the time. The club could have made £3-5m potentially in income per year from this, not lots but would have paid for some of the upkeep to the club.

Instead we gave the land away when SJM sold to the Thai's and didn't do anything with it ourselves.

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

What is the difference to clubs having hotels and sports villages?

I never liked the idea of REP. The Thai's were asset strippers and only had their own interests at heart. We would have lost crucial car parking leading to a bigger decline in attendances. We might have made a small % in additional income only. For the club it was a terrible idea.

[Dirk Gently]

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

Aren't income from a hotel and a conference centre non-football related sources?

Well the thing I'm getting at, is why don't other clubs have multiple external investments to supplement income if it's something your allowed to do, or do they potentially already do that?

They try to as much as possible - it depends upon the facilities available. A lot of clubs have them on their facilities run by someone else and take a regular set payment, rather than try to directly run them themselves. But for smaller clubs increasing the commercial facilities and getting a seven days a week, all-year-round income from them is the holy grail.

[Elm Park Kid]

The reality that it didn't happen suggests that it was never commercially viable. If big John didn't want to go ahead with it himself then that tells you something.

[Dirk Gently]

tbh, I thought from the start that there was something dodgy about the whole idea - not least the fact that the car park area was built on the old rubbish tip and is effectively on a "bubble" (hence the methane vents).

So the land around the car park - so the land there won't take the weight of substantial buildings without significant foundation and decontamination work (the work that made the stadium itself so expensive.)

[tmesis]

The reality that it didn't happen suggests that it was never commercially viable. If big John didn't want to go ahead with it himself then that tells you something.

Was it his idea? I thought it was put forward by the Thais, and possibly the reason why they bought the club in the first place.

I wonder what they paid for the land, and the hotel, which they apparently also own.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

The reality that it didn't happen suggests that it was never commercially viable. If big John didn't want to go ahead with it himself then that tells you something.

Was it his idea? I thought it was put forward by the Thais, and possibly the reason why they bought the club in the first place.

I wonder what they paid for the land, and the hotel, which they apparently also own.

I think it is the Thai's who own the land, I don't think it was ever in Madejski's intentions as he had already moved from Elm Park to the Madejski not too long before (in stadium move terms anyway).

Given the investment (or lack of) by the Thai's during their stint of majority owners of ourselves, it seems like they'd have probably funded anything like this project with the money from promotion to the Premier League.

[3points]

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

Aren't income from a hotel and a conference centre non-football related sources?

Club doesn't receive any money from the hotel and conference centre

[3points]

The reality that it didn't happen suggests that it was never commercially viable. If big John didn't want to go ahead with it himself then that tells you something.

Was it his idea? I thought it was put forward by the Thais, and possibly the reason why they bought the club in the first place.

I wonder what they paid for the land, and the hotel, which they apparently also own.

I think it is the Thai's who own the land, I don't think it was ever in Madejski's intentions as he had already moved from Elm Park to the Madejski not too long before (in stadium move terms anyway).

Given the investment (or lack of) by the Thai's during their stint of majority owners of ourselves, it seems like they'd have probably funded anything like this project with the money from promotion to the Premier League.

The club actually owns 25% of REP, the rest being owned by the Thais. I think it was this investment the club tried to sell to Mr Dai directly to get around the P&S rules before the suspended 6 point penalty was applied

[Hound]

Was it his idea? I thought it was put forward by the Thais, and possibly the reason why they bought the club in the first place.

I wonder what they paid for the land, and the hotel, which they apparently also own.

I think it is the Thai's who own the land, I don't think it was ever in Madejski's intentions as he had already moved from Elm Park to the Madejski not too long before (in stadium move terms anyway).

Given the investment (or lack of) by the Thai's during their stint of majority owners of ourselves, it seems like they'd have probably funded anything like this project with the money from promotion to the Premier League.

The club actually owns 25% of REP, the rest being owned by the Thais. I think it was this investment the club tried to sell to Mr Dai directly to get around the P&S rules before the suspended 6 point penalty was applied

Interesting and would make sense. Guess it’s about all the club owns now

[SCIAG]

Don't know how the EFL would view a club receiving income via non-football related soruces.

Aren't income from a hotel and a conference centre non-football related sources?

Well the thing I'm getting at, is why don't other clubs have multiple external investments to supplement income if it's something your allowed to do, or do they potentially already do that?

Clubs do. Arsenal made a lot of money from the redevelopment of Highbury, and Chelsea and Man City both own a lot of commercial property (in Chelsea’s case in particular this is very valuable). QPR have some land around Old Oak Common which is being turned into a major housing development. I think Brentford own a few properties around their stadium.

The issue is that this sort of thing is very capital intensive. If you are a billionaire looking to get around spending restrictions then sure, buy some property for your club to give a sustainable and FFP-compliant source of income. Brentford and Arsenal acquired stuff as the result of their stadium moves. If you’re not that sort of billionaire who views the club as a plaything then you’re probably not going to donate property that could instead be making you rich. And if you don’t have an oligarch or an oil state bankrolling you, then you’re going to have to divert money that would otherwise go towards the playing squad or your facilities - football is generally too short-term for that.

I can’t say I was particularly clued in on the purchase of the Madejski but I understand the council sold us a “worthless” piece of land (disused landfill) for £1 in exchange for a contribution to the A33 relief road. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a condition that we must have X number of parking spaces to prevent pressure on local residential areas. I also remember reading that the land wasn’t considered suitable for a residential development at the time, though maybe it is now. If Madejski had thought it was viable, I suspect he would have done the same thing as the Thais.

[Dirk Gently]

I can’t say I was particularly clued in on the purchase of the Madejski but I understand the council sold us a “worthless” piece of land (disused landfill) for £1 in exchange for a contribution to the A33 relief road. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a condition that we must have X number of parking spaces to prevent pressure on local residential areas. I also remember reading that the land wasn’t considered suitable for a residential development at the time, though maybe it is now. If Madejski had thought it was viable, I suspect he would have done the same thing as the Thais.

There certainly were conditions to the £1 sale, but not to do with residential provisions. The land had been used for toxic dumping for decades, so as a condition of sale SJM had to pay for decontamination of it - which I believe set him back around £10M out of the total of £37M the whole development cost.

But I think what's underneath it, and the way the car park is built on vented landfill that still creates methane, makes it permanently unsuitable for residential development.

[Sutekh]

Unless someone can confirm that some development work has started on this (and that could be as little as knocking a wall down or something more insignificant) I believe the whole lot will have to go back to the drawing board as planning permission I think runs out in November 2023 so if it’s not underway somehow by then it’ll be interesting to see whether the Thais rock up again with the Council or whether Mr Dai might try and buy the land back for the club at that juncture.

[The Royal Forester]

Unless someone can confirm that some development work has started on this (and that could be as little as knocking a wall down or something more insignificant) I believe the whole lot will have to go back to the drawing board as planning permission I think runs out in November 2023 so if it’s not underway somehow by then it’ll be interesting to see whether the Thais rock up again with the Council or whether Mr Dai might try and buy the land back for the club at that juncture.

I think it is more likely Mr. Dai would buy the land for himself, rather than than the club.