Buy-back con

[weybridgewanderer]

So, in this example, ManU are shown to pay the £16 (not even 50%) for something which actually has a market value of £35, more a case of lose win, surely?

Say you paid £600 for the season ticket that is £31 per game

So if you can't make that game you are £31 out of pocket

if man utd give you £16 back you are now on only £15 out of pocket

Thats a win in my book

...edited to fix the daft spelling mistakes

[West Stand Man]

So, in this example, ManU are shown to pay the £16 (not even 50%) for something which actually has a market value of £35, more a case of lose win, surely?

No, say uyou paif £600 for the seaon ticket that is £31 per game

So if you can't make that game you are £31 out of pocket

if man utd give you £16 back you are now on only £15 out of pocket

Thats a win in my book

It looks like we 'glass half full' people aren't quite so thin on the ground after all!

[weybridgewanderer]

This is a factor I don't think the club considers. Do they? They get the full seasons games paid for up front with a season ticket, so they probably wouldn't be upset if every Reading STH attended a wedding on exactly the same day as the Man Utd game.

Or would they?

Of course the would as it has been proven that with a fan in as many seats as possible the performance on the pitch improves and the players know and appreciate this.

of course the club is upset at an empty seat

one that has already been sold through a season ticket is less upsetting that one that has not been sold at all, however if the seat is empty and the club can make money from reselling it then that extra cash would be a bonus to the club

Its then a balance of how much extra the club can make and how much the party that already bought the seat is prepared to be compensated

[MartinRdg]

I'm sorry but really can't have a decent grasp of business if you believe that last point.

No company are ever going to buy back tickets from fans unless they know they have a good chance of selling that seat. If for example, you know you can't make the Blackburn game but the club haven't sold the 2000 odd seats available for that game they end up in the situation whereby they have unsold seats but are then giving back future revenue in the way of vouchers.

It does not make sense at all. A game has to be sold out for this system to be worthwhile to all parties.

Absolutely right. The trouble is that some of the other halfwits who comment on this message board couldn't persude the Dragons Den to lend them a five for a burger let alone have any inclination about running a multi million pound business (note for anr - RFC is a multi million pound business not a charity, or perhaps you hadn't noticed?)

Sorry to be pedantic (!!!) but who could persuade Dragons Den for a fiver for a burger? They wouldn't see a return so would no invest.

[Forbury Lion]

I'm sorry but really can't have a decent grasp of business if you believe that last point.

No company are ever going to buy back tickets from fans unless they know they have a good chance of selling that seat. If for example, you know you can't make the Blackburn game but the club haven't sold the 2000 odd seats available for that game they end up in the situation whereby they have unsold seats but are then giving back future revenue in the way of vouchers.

It does not make sense at all. A game has to be sold out for this system to be worthwhile to all parties.

Absolutely right. The trouble is that some of the other halfwits who comment on this message board couldn't persude the Dragons Den to lend them a five for a burger let alone have any inclination about running a multi million pound business (note for anr - RFC is a multi million pound business not a charity, or perhaps you hadn't noticed?)

Sorry to be pedantic (!!!) but who could persuade Dragons Den for a fiver for a burger? They wouldn't see a return so would no invest.

If you were asking for an investment so that you could sell burgers for a fiver in a location with no competition and hungry football supporters things might be different.

[STAR Voice]

You jump to some incorrect conclusions about my circumstances, so please don't make sweeping generalisations.

In all honesty, I don't think I have. I based my comments on the phrase "Ever felt you'd been had", which suggested to me that you'd only bought a ST because a buy-back scheme was in operation.

My dilemma this season was whether or not to continue getting a season ticket for my son
<<edit for brevity>>
This was my thinking when the new ST prices were announced: "So, do I splash out £385 for only may be 7-8 games? Probably not...but hold on, there's something called a buy-back scheme...OK the club are doing to tell me all about it (in June, surely??) so I'll take this expensive gamble in good faith, and I'll try and get some compensation when my mates (who are all season ticket holders anyway and rarely need a spare) can't take it off my hands."

That's why I feel hard done by. Maybe I've been naive to trust the club and never having supported a Premiership team before, I've never come across a buy-back scheme before. I made the mistake of believing the club would deliver on what appeared to be some sort of promise - and that word "sell" is there in black and white.

So I've been suckered into making an expensive mistake.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think you've been more than a tad naive and unrealistic in expecting that any buy-back scheme would offer you a full price return, or that it would ever do this for you in preference to selling their own tickets.

TBH, I can't think of any comercial organisation in the world that would offer that kind of service - you're talking more about the option to "opt-out" of certain ST games you have purchased and get a full refund. And as an existing STH surely you know how RFC operates - can you realistically see them allowing something like this? If so, what happens after a bad result or if the club is going down - what's to stop all 18,000 ST holders deciding they're going to miss the last game of the season and asking for a full refund?

....can I suggest you campaign to make the club a bit more open and honest about its intentions? After all , this still hasn't been publicised. And it damn well should be to the 18,000 customers effected.[/size]

We certainly are doing that, but it's a long process. And to be fair to them in this case I honestly don't think the club has misled its intentions or has hidden anything - I think you assumed that the scheme would be far more generous than it was ever going to be.

[STAR Voice]

I Quite agree with you. I purchased a ticket for my 4 year old, who will go to a majority of the games. The problem will come with the more inclement weather conditions when no doubt his mother will kick up a fuss about me dragging him out. Ah, the buy-back scheme..... I can sell the club back my kids ticket and an adult friend can purchase it back from the club at face value (Agree with not being able to upgrade as this could be open to abuse....) and everyone is happy.

Club gets more revenue (the re-imbursement of maybe half a child ticket would have been a suitable amount set against the purchase of a new matchday adult ticket price), the seat next to me gets used and another oppurtunity to convert a new member arises.

Never mind, the clubs attitude to the fans this season starts to make me seriously question why I spend so much of my disposable towards it.

Again, I think you've made an unrealistic assumption. Isn't what you describe ("..... I can sell the club back my kids ticket and an adult friend can purchase it back from the club at face value ..." ) just a subtle way around the upgrade ban?

Any buy-only would never, ever let you decide who the club sold the ticket to - if they are re-selling it then surely they decide who it gets re-sold to, according to points or whatever priority method is in use.

[One Beer is never enough.]

Maybe someone already knows the answer to this.

Ignoring the upgrade option - presume this is the 4th evening game of the season.

My four year old cant go to the match because it January and its F'ing freezing.

An adult friend wants to go.

I cant 'upgrade' the ticket. (already done that 3 times)

Can I present my 4 yr olds ticket at the TO and get my adult friend to purchase a paper ticket, allowing him access to the East Stand, in order that he sit in the 'empty' seat?

I am not that bothered about getting any voucherback (although a voucher would be nice) and know plenty of people that would [purchase the ticket at full price, so does anyone know if the club has an issue with this?

[One Beer is never enough.]

I Quite agree with you. I purchased a ticket for my 4 year old, who will go to a majority of the games. The problem will come with the more inclement weather conditions when no doubt his mother will kick up a fuss about me dragging him out. Ah, the buy-back scheme..... I can sell the club back my kids ticket and an adult friend can purchase it back from the club at face value (Agree with not being able to upgrade as this could be open to abuse....) and everyone is happy.

Club gets more revenue (the re-imbursement of maybe half a child ticket would have been a suitable amount set against the purchase of a new matchday adult ticket price), the seat next to me gets used and another oppurtunity to convert a new member arises.

Never mind, the clubs attitude to the fans this season starts to make me seriously question why I spend so much of my disposable towards it.

Again, I think you've made an unrealistic assumption. Isn't what you describe ("..... I can sell the club back my kids ticket and an adult friend can purchase it back from the club at face value ..." ) just a subtle way around the upgrade ban?

Any buy-only would never, ever let you decide who the club sold the ticket to - if they are re-selling it then surely they decide who it gets re-sold to, according to points or whatever priority method is in use.

Spooky you did that as i was posting the subsequent mesage, and in answer to your bit at the end, yes. (although obviously not that subtle! )

[STAR Voice]

Maybe someone already knows the answer to this.

Ignoring the upgrade option - presume this is the 4th evening game of the season.

My four year old cant go to the match because it January and its F'ing freezing.

An adult friend wants to go.

I cant 'upgrade' the ticket. (already done that 3 times)

Can I present my 4 yr olds ticket at the TO and get my adult friend to purchase a paper ticket, allowing him access to the East Stand, in order that he sit in the 'empty' seat?

I am not that bothered about getting any voucherback (although a voucher would be nice) and know plenty of people that would [purchase the ticket at full price, so does anyone know if the club has an issue with this?

I'd suspect that the club would see that as "an upgrade by another name."

[One Beer is never enough.]

But it would mean an empty seat at - assuming no voucherback - no extra cost (indeed some income) to the club. Surely a good thing?

[STAR Voice]

You're right - but balance that against the cost to the club from people who abuse it.

For example, someone who buys a kid's ST as a "place-holder" and then does what you suggest for every match that they want to go to - more than likely taking a profit from whoever the are selling it to for that game. They presumably had the ST last season for £80, too.

The club's problems is where to set the limit to stop abuse - but there must be some limit. Like so many other things, it's the dishonest few who spoil it for the honest many.

You'd be amazed how many different people are trying to abuse the system, and how many different ways there are of doing it. For example, already there are touts beating Arsenal's smartcard system - you get a member card from a tout for a high price plus a £100 deposit, then when you get inside and return the card to the tout's runner inside the ground you get your deposit back!

[One Beer is never enough.]

I can see the possibility for abuse, and can appreciate the extent that some people would go to - still would hope there could be a degree of discretion.

Looks like a winter of 'discussion' with the missus and the purchase of lots of warm weather wear!

[STAR Voice]

There's an easy answer.

Wrap the kid up and bring them along. It's character building, and they'll hate you for the rest of their life when they have to tell people in 50 years : "I had a season ticket when Kevin Doyle scored "that goal" - but my bastard dad wouldn't let me go that night."

You know it makes sense

[STAR Liaison]

I can see the possibility for abuse, and can appreciate the extent that some people would go to - still would hope there could be a degree of discretion.

Looks like a winter of 'discussion' with the missus and the purchase of lots of warm weather wear!

I think you will find the last comment on upgrades was that the limit was 3 but that any reasonable request for more would be looked at. In other words as long as the 3 previous upgrades before the freezing January game were not Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal with the seat had not being used for the other games indicating you actually only bought the kids ticket for an adult really, then they would consider a further upgrade. Try communucating with the Sales Centre rather than making assumptions - they have the usage record available to check your assertions.

[weybridgewanderer]

Maybe someone already knows the answer to this.

Ignoring the upgrade option - presume this is the 4th evening game of the season.

My four year old cant go to the match because it January and its F'ing freezing.

An adult friend wants to go.

I cant 'upgrade' the ticket. (already done that 3 times)

Can I present my 4 yr olds ticket at the TO and get my adult friend to purchase a paper ticket, allowing him access to the East Stand, in order that he sit in the 'empty' seat?

I am not that bothered about getting any voucherback (although a voucher would be nice) and know plenty of people that would [purchase the ticket at full price, so does anyone know if the club has an issue with this?

assuming all public sale tickets had already been sold this may work

[Forbury Lion]

This is a factor I don't think the club considers. Do they? They get the full seasons games paid for up front with a season ticket, so they probably wouldn't be upset if every Reading STH attended a wedding on exactly the same day as the Man Utd game.

Or would they?

Of course the would as it has been proven that with a fan in as many seats as possible the performance on the pitch improves and the players know and appreciate this.

of course the club is upset at an empty seat

An empty seat isn't going to buy a programe, magazine, place a bet on the concourse, buy a hotdog and a warm beer then pop into the megastore and buy a replica shirt.

[The Goat was fed]

You jump to some incorrect conclusions about my circumstances, so please don't make sweeping generalisations.

In all honesty, I don't think I have. I based my comments on the phrase "Ever felt you'd been had", which suggested to me that you'd only bought a ST because a buy-back scheme was in operation.

My dilemma this season was whether or not to continue getting a season ticket for my son
<<edit for brevity>>
This was my thinking when the new ST prices were announced: "So, do I splash out £385 for only may be 7-8 games? Probably not...but hold on, there's something called a buy-back scheme...OK the club are doing to tell me all about it (in June, surely??) so I'll take this expensive gamble in good faith, and I'll try and get some compensation when my mates (who are all season ticket holders anyway and rarely need a spare) can't take it off my hands."

That's why I feel hard done by. Maybe I've been naive to trust the club and never having supported a Premiership team before, I've never come across a buy-back scheme before. I made the mistake of believing the club would deliver on what appeared to be some sort of promise - and that word "sell" is there in black and white.

So I've been suckered into making an expensive mistake.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think you've been more than a tad naive and unrealistic in expecting that any buy-back scheme would offer you a full price return, or that it would ever do this for you in preference to selling their own tickets.

TBH, I can't think of any comercial organisation in the world that would offer that kind of service - you're talking more about the option to "opt-out" of certain ST games you have purchased and get a full refund. And as an existing STH surely you know how RFC operates - can you realistically see them allowing something like this? If so, what happens after a bad result or if the club is going down - what's to stop all 18,000 ST holders deciding they're going to miss the last game of the season and asking for a full refund?

....can I suggest you campaign to make the club a bit more open and honest about its intentions? After all , this still hasn't been publicised. And it damn well should be to the 18,000 customers effected.[/size]

We certainly are doing that, but it's a long process. And to be fair to them in this case I honestly don't think the club has misled its intentions or has hidden anything - I think you assumed that the scheme would be far more generous than it was ever going to be.

You continue to make incorrect assumptions, which is worrying considering you obviously seem to "campaigning" for ther supporters. Where in my post do I say I expected a full refund? Nowhere. So for goodness sake, please read what I say before another pious pronouncement. And, yes, I did buy my son's season ticket on the expectation of a properly run, properly explained buy-back scheme.

You say the club haven't "hidden" anything.

If STAR truly believes that, then God help us. From now on, I find it difficult to take STAR seriously. Firstly, the original statement in the pamphlet is, by any standards disingenuous. Secondly, where is this policy stated? Is STAR encouraging the club to be more open and honest? As others have pointed out, the communication - or lack of it - has been pathetic.

It appears STAR have gone native on this.

On a different, but related note, it is illegal to sell on match tickets, even for face value. A ridiculous law designed to outlaw ticket touts, but the law nonetheless.

[Royal Lady]

TGWF - you have a son??

[The 17 Bus]

TGWF - you have a son??

no he bought a st to tout it, not.