Green park station/south Reading station

696 posts
Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 13:51

Behindu
Elm PArk You run the tram down the existing rail track as far as the proposed station and then take a spur off and around green park. Simple.

I agree timescales might be a problem. But if a thing is worth doing....


Don't trains generally have a different gauge to trains so you would need to run a second set of tracks

And wouldn't the trams get in the way of the trains using the same section of track ?


I'm no expert on this but I believe that they use the same gauge. IIRC, there was talk a few years ago about Reading introducing trams and that part of their route would be over existing rail lines.

Behindu
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1970
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 15:05

by Behindu » 09 Oct 2007 13:57

I'm no expert either !
If the gauges are the same it seems an interesting idea, although a lot more work than knocking up a couple of platforms and a bus shelter !
You'd think they would need to let a lot more space on Green Park before it became cost effective.

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6575
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54
Location: 1 across, 2 down. Winner - HNA? Death Pool 2007

by Dirk Gently » 09 Oct 2007 14:03

The limiting factor would be the speed of the trains/trams going backwards and forwards between GP & Reading General (showing my age, there!)

This is actually a cross-country main line, so slow trains would have to be very carefully timetables, and the more of them there are the more likely they'd cause disruption.

That's why I'm very surprised that there's no siding at the platform in the station as shown. That rules out there being a shuttle backwards and forwards to Reading, and would also make it very difficult for trains to wait for games to end (as they do at Charlton) - a train at the station is effectively blocking the line, and if it's can't reverse easily (i.e. from a siding) it has to cross both lines or go onto Basingstoke.

Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 14:05

Behindu I'm no expert either !
If the gauges are the same it seems an interesting idea, although a lot more work than knocking up a couple of platforms and a bus shelter !
You'd think they would need to let a lot more space on Green Park before it became cost effective.


Just done a quick web search and there are at least a couple of places where they run over existing train tracks. It appears that trams can run over train tracks but not visa versa as there is about 10mm diff. in the gauge.

Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 14:17

Dirk Gently The limiting factor would be the speed of the trains/trams going backwards and forwards between GP & Reading General (showing my age, there!)

This is actually a cross-country main line, so slow trains would have to be very carefully timetables, and the more of them there are the more likely they'd cause disruption.

That's why I'm very surprised that there's no siding at the platform in the station as shown. That rules out there being a shuttle backwards and forwards to Reading, and would also make it very difficult for trains to wait for games to end (as they do at Charlton) - a train at the station is effectively blocking the line, and if it's can't reverse easily (i.e. from a siding) it has to cross both lines or go onto Basingstoke.


I think you might be surprised at the speed of trams as they can reach up to 60 mph on train tracks.

I know its a cross country main line but there are only a few mainline trains in each direction a day. It's also used by a lot more freight trains but that shouldn't cause too many problems.

In the current plans I don't believe that it is intended to be a shuttle service but would just be the normal scheduled service through to Basingstoke (and back). There wouldn't be any waiting for fans at the station. If its missed they would have to wait for teh next scheduled service (Is it half hourly on that line?)


Behindu
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1970
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 15:05

by Behindu » 09 Oct 2007 14:21

It would be interesting to get Upper West Ginger's take on this as he seem s to be 'in the industry' and I'm that dangerous thing an interested amateur !

I'd agree with your comment that if it's worth doing it's worth doing well and it would be a shame if they put the station in and it is of little real help in terms of making journeys easier and reducing road traffic.

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6575
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54
Location: 1 across, 2 down. Winner - HNA? Death Pool 2007

by Dirk Gently » 09 Oct 2007 14:22

Elm PArk
Dirk Gently The limiting factor would be the speed of the trains/trams going backwards and forwards between GP & Reading General (showing my age, there!)

This is actually a cross-country main line, so slow trains would have to be very carefully timetables, and the more of them there are the more likely they'd cause disruption.

That's why I'm very surprised that there's no siding at the platform in the station as shown. That rules out there being a shuttle backwards and forwards to Reading, and would also make it very difficult for trains to wait for games to end (as they do at Charlton) - a train at the station is effectively blocking the line, and if it's can't reverse easily (i.e. from a siding) it has to cross both lines or go onto Basingstoke.


I think you might be surprised at the speed of trams as they can reach up to 60 mph on train tracks.

I know its a cross country main line but there are only a few mainline trains in each direction a day. It's also used by a lot more freight trains but that shouldn't cause too many problems.

In the current plans I don't believe that it is intended to be a shuttle service but would just be the normal scheduled service through to Basingstoke (and back). There wouldn't be any waiting for fans at the station. If its missed they would have to wait for the next scheduled service (Is it half hourly on that line?)


In which case I'm not sure just how useful it will be for moving large numbers of people - at most, I'd imagine the scheduled services could only move something like 200-300 people maximum, which isn't very significant in terms of the numbers needed.

Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 14:25

Behindu It would be interesting to get Upper West Ginger's take on this as he seem s to be 'in the industry' and I'm that dangerous thing an interested amateur !


Oh dear that makes two of us. We're dooomed :)

Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 14:40

Dirk Gently
In which case I'm not sure just how useful it will be for moving large numbers of people - at most, I'd imagine the scheduled services could only move something like 200-300 people maximum, which isn't very significant in terms of the numbers needed.


I've just followed this through and it's not quite as bad as I thought but I still don't think the extra trains were as a shuttle service. Anyway I picked this up from the GreenPark website:

http://www.greenpark.co.uk/factfile/newreadingstation.shtml

'The Department of Transport has approved plans for the new Reading GreenPark Station

The station, on the Reading-Basingstoke line, should open by December 2008 with trains running every 30 minutes and special services on match days.

As demand grows the frequency should increase to 15-20 minute intervals and the two platforms, unmanned ticket machines, car and bicycle parking, an overbridge and bus interchange should be ready inside 18 months.

'The station will link into the current GreenPark Park & Ride bus system and in the longer tem, connect to a Mass Rapid Transit system reaching other parts of the area and Reading Town Centre.


Behindu
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1970
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 15:05

by Behindu » 09 Oct 2007 14:57

So that suggests the park and ride might come from town to the stadium, then loop round Green Park to the new station, back to the Mad Stad and back into town !

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6575
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54
Location: 1 across, 2 down. Winner - HNA? Death Pool 2007

by Dirk Gently » 09 Oct 2007 14:58

Isn't there going to be another P&R on the other side of the M4 as part of the J11 improvement scheme?

User avatar
Platypuss
Hob Nob Moderator
Posts: 8200
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 21:46
Location: No one cares about your creative hub, so get your fukcin' hedge cut

by Platypuss » 09 Oct 2007 15:44

Dirk Gently Isn't there going to be another P&R on the other side of the M4 as part of the J11 improvement scheme?


Indeed. It's WBC rather than RBC but will be at Mereoak - running off the existing 3-mile cross roundabout to the South of the J11 junction.

Elm Park
Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 11:37

by Elm Park » 09 Oct 2007 15:48

Behindu So that suggests the park and ride might come from town to the stadium, then loop round Green Park to the new station, back to the Mad Stad and back into town !


I'm not so sure. About a year ago a caught the park and ride on a weekday from the madstad into the town. The route went down Hurst Way, round Green Park and onto the A33 into Town (no return to the stadium). But that was a year ago and routes can easily change especially when the new station is introduced.


User avatar
Platypuss
Hob Nob Moderator
Posts: 8200
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 21:46
Location: No one cares about your creative hub, so get your fukcin' hedge cut

by Platypuss » 09 Oct 2007 15:55

This is an aerial view of the site for a different perspective.


Behindu
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1970
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 15:05

by Behindu » 09 Oct 2007 16:39

Platypuss
Dirk Gently Isn't there going to be another P&R on the other side of the M4 as part of the J11 improvement scheme?


Indeed. It's WBC rather than RBC but will be at Mereoak - running off the existing 3-mile cross roundabout to the South of the J11 junction.


If it's WDC then you would assume they will ensure their buses are routed well away from the Mad Stad !
I wonder if the Football Club will raise a planning objection to it on the grounds it may cause congestion for people trying to get to the ground....

User avatar
bobby m's syrup
Member
Posts: 579
Joined: 30 May 2004 23:03
Location: Amanzimtoti

by bobby m's syrup » 13 Oct 2007 07:27

Elm PArk
Behindu ElmPark, as Wycombe points out you suggested a tram from Reading Station (in the town centre). You'd need to get all the way out to the Mad Stad from there and that just looks horrifically complex and expensive.

I think you may have a good idea about some kind of tram round Green Park and I also agree that local trams as used in Holland (and a number of UK cities) could have a big part to play but would be worried about the practicality of it replacing the station in anything like the necessary time scales.


You run the tram down the existing rail track as far as the proposed station and then take a spur off and around green park. Simple.

I agree timescales might be a problem. But if a thing is worth doing....



Sounds simple and is already happening in parts of Germany and Holland. In Karlsruhe, trams even share routes used by Inter City trains

Sharing also happens in the UK, but only on the Sunderland extension of the Tyne & Wear Metro where theses vehicles are engineered to a standard which allows them to 'retain structural integrity' in the case of a collision with conventional stock.

In effect, this makes Metro cars light rail vehicle a la DLR and thus incompatible with street running.

The Germans have proved that advanced signalling now precludes a need for extra heavy tram-train engineering, but this has so far failed to convince our penny pinching authorities.

User avatar
Dirk Gently
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6575
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 13:54
Location: 1 across, 2 down. Winner - HNA? Death Pool 2007

by Dirk Gently » 13 Oct 2007 16:08

In fact, in Germany most match tickets include return travel from the City/Town centre to the ground within the ticket price.

Behindu
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1970
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 15:05

by Behindu » 14 Oct 2007 07:36

I bet Newcastle fans would be delighted to be charged an extra quid for 'travel to the city centre'....

User avatar
The 17 Bus
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3154
Joined: 24 May 2006 21:08

by The 17 Bus » 14 Oct 2007 08:12

Is that a picture of a White Elephant or Green Park that PP has posted?

Also worth remembering that in time the current Speedway site will be redeveloped, so potential to have road access there and say bollox to the Pru, actually it would be great to close their access direct to the A33 road there and take it out onto a new road, a link road across to Burghfield Road, would be even better and open up that whole area, also make access to Mr Madejskis Hotel there quicker too.

Come on planners look further ahead for a change.

Forbury Lion
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 7484
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 08:37
Location: https://urlzs.com/ZVLjH

by Forbury Lion » 14 Oct 2007 10:46

Dirk Gently That's why I'm very surprised that there's no siding at the platform in the station as shown. That rules out there being a shuttle backwards and forwards to Reading, and would also make it very difficult for trains to wait for games to end (as they do at Charlton) - a train at the station is effectively blocking the line, and if it's can't reverse easily (i.e. from a siding) it has to cross both lines or go onto Basingstoke.
Agree, you could have a 8 coach train sat on a side platform ready to go full of away fans back up north or where ever.

696 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

It is currently 24 Nov 2020 00:58