England - the future....

[Franchise FC]

Shame the defensive options are so meagre and we're screwed for a striker if Kane gets crocked.

CB: Stones, Ben White, Konsa, Tomori, Maguire, Colwil, Dunk, Branthwaite
FB: James, Chilwell, Shaw, Trippier, TAA, Walker

ST: Kane, Toney, Watkins, (Greenwood*)

Goalkeeper is the position we lack in, decent enough but no-one outstanding

I presume you've listed that lot to prove Sutekh's point
White has ruled himself out of selection
Konsa, Tomori, Colwil & Branthwaite aren't setting the world alight
Dunk is steady but no more and is probably on about par with Maguire
That leaves Stones

[Sutekh]

In this case, who would be your four CB’s you’d choose instead?

1. John Stones
2. Not Maguire
3. Not Maguire
4. Not Maguire
Problem is that in the last few years when Maguire's not really been up to it, nobody else has been given a proper run of games to put forward a claim to the place. Can see us having to revert back to back 3 with Walker's pace in there to help recover Maguire's mistakes.

My point on it is that the numpty that is Southgate should have been using the game to experiment with new blood in key positions not ponce about with the same old tired faces and cameos from the bench. He had Tomori, Branthwaite, Colwill and Konsa but we got Maguire and Stones yet again - in what was a meaningless friendly. His idea of experimenting was to play Gordon (and to a lesser extent Gallagher) rather than testing in the key positions. Same tonight? Or will he actually start the others?

Really hope I'm wrong but England will not win anything with GS as manager despite having possibly what are the best midfield options in the world. Every tournament will see England fail through his over cautious approaches mixed with the usual inability to score a penalty.

[Snowflake Royal]

In this case, who would be your four CB’s you’d choose instead?

1. John Stones
2. Not Maguire
3. Not Maguire
4. Not Maguire
Problem is that in the last few years when Maguire's not really been up to it, nobody else has been given a proper run of games to put forward a claim to the place. Can see us having to revert back to back 3 with Walker's pace in there to help recover Maguire's mistakes.

My point on it is that the numpty that is Southgate should have been using the game to experiment with new blood in key positions not ponce about with the same old tired faces and cameos from the bench. He had Tomori, Branthwaite, Colwill and Konsa but we got Maguire and Stones yet again - in what was a meaningless friendly. His idea of experimenting was to play Gordon (and to a lesser extent Gallagher) rather than testing in the key positions. Same tonight? Or will he actually start the others?

Really hope I'm wrong but England will not win anything with GS as manager despite having possibly what are the best midfield options in the world. Every tournament will see England fail through his over cautious approaches mixed with the usual inability to score a penalty.

Maybe he was taking the chance to test Maguire against a major football nation to see how much he could rely on him in big games going into the tournament.

Personally I think Maguire is such an easy stick to beat Southgate with, he should have dropped him for a few games in preparation where the result was less important, to show England fans what life is like without him. Because as we all know, the unselected players are all more and more world class the longer an unpopular player keeps them out.

[Sutekh]

1. John Stones
2. Not Maguire
3. Not Maguire
4. Not Maguire
Problem is that in the last few years when Maguire's not really been up to it, nobody else has been given a proper run of games to put forward a claim to the place. Can see us having to revert back to back 3 with Walker's pace in there to help recover Maguire's mistakes.

My point on it is that the numpty that is Southgate should have been using the game to experiment with new blood in key positions not ponce about with the same old tired faces and cameos from the bench. He had Tomori, Branthwaite, Colwill and Konsa but we got Maguire and Stones yet again - in what was a meaningless friendly. His idea of experimenting was to play Gordon (and to a lesser extent Gallagher) rather than testing in the key positions. Same tonight? Or will he actually start the others?

Really hope I'm wrong but England will not win anything with GS as manager despite having possibly what are the best midfield options in the world. Every tournament will see England fail through his over cautious approaches mixed with the usual inability to score a penalty.

Maybe he was taking the chance to test Maguire against a major football nation to see how much he could rely on him in big games going into the tournament.

Personally I think Maguire is such an easy stick to beat Southgate with, he should have dropped him for a few games in preparation where the result was less important, to show England fans what life is like without him. Because as we all know, the unselected players are all more and more world class the longer an unpopular player keeps them out.

Would agree with that totally. Desperately want to see what the "fringers" can do when it counts and maybe you might find someone who excels for England while being mediocre at club level rather than vice versa!

After the Euros, perhaps it's also time to start blooding some of the u21s, Quansah looks a real prospect for example, ready for the next World Cup. Nation League and most qualifying games are pretty much no more than trumped up friendlies anyway so some experimentation there might actually inject some meaning to the group games.

[6ft Kerplunk]

My point on it is that the numpty that is Southgate should have been using the game to experiment with new blood in key positions not ponce about with the same old tired faces and cameos from the bench. He had Tomori, Branthwaite, Colwill and Konsa but we got Maguire and Stones yet again - in what was a meaningless friendly. His idea of experimenting was to play Gordon (and to a lesser extent Gallagher) rather than testing in the key positions. Same tonight? Or will he actually start the others?

Really hope I'm wrong but England will not win anything with GS as manager despite having possibly what are the best midfield options in the world. Every tournament will see England fail through his over cautious approaches mixed with the usual inability to score a penalty.

Maguire is out injured tonight isn't he? So at least we'll get a different partnership, think that means he'll have to play Stones though as Walker is out to and you want some experience in there if you're having to make at least two changes.
Although our midfield first choices are excellent its a bit worrying that Gallagher started the last match. He's ok but not exactly been brilliant for Chelsea this season has he. I guess if Saka was fit then Foden would've been played in the middle instead of Gallagher.

[Sanguine]

Thing is, given the general negative reaction to us losing a football match by a single goal to Brazil, it's hard to imagine that had Southgate played a few more inexperienced players and we'd been thrashed 5-0, he'd have been criticised for that, too.

Fwiw, having seen some of the 'highlights packages' put together by United fans of Mainoo's little cameo, I'm beginning to see Southgate's point on Henderson again. We need someone to do that side to side, controlling role thingy. If Henderson's collage of clips this week had looked like Mainoo's, he'd have been torn down, again.

I've no issue with Stones playing every game - he is absolute class.

Declan Rice has crept up on me a bit - already 25, and tonight he will win his 50th England cap.

Finally - any fan who thinks that we 'should' win a major international tournament quite frankly has a misunderstanding of how football works - starting with the fact that the opposition do actually get a say in matters. See for example France simply playing really well when they beat us in the QFs at the World Cup.

[6ft Kerplunk]

I'm just happy that this generation appear to be a whole lot more likeable as a group than the last 'golden' generation that failed to win anything.
That said, wouldn't it be nice for a pacey central defender to come through to partner Stones.

[BRO_BOT]

My point on it is that the numpty that is Southgate should have been using the game to experiment with new blood in key positions not ponce about with the same old tired faces and cameos from the bench. He had Tomori, Branthwaite, Colwill and Konsa but we got Maguire and Stones yet again - in what was a meaningless friendly. His idea of experimenting was to play Gordon (and to a lesser extent Gallagher) rather than testing in the key positions. Same tonight? Or will he actually start the others?

Really hope I'm wrong but England will not win anything with GS as manager despite having possibly what are the best midfield options in the world. Every tournament will see England fail through his over cautious approaches mixed with the usual inability to score a penalty.

Maybe he was taking the chance to test Maguire against a major football nation to see how much he could rely on him in big games going into the tournament.

Personally I think Maguire is such an easy stick to beat Southgate with, he should have dropped him for a few games in preparation where the result was less important, to show England fans what life is like without him. Because as we all know, the unselected players are all more and more world class the longer an unpopular player keeps them out.

Would agree with that totally. Desperately want to see what the "fringers" can do when it counts and maybe you might find someone who excels for England while being mediocre at club level rather than vice versa!

After the Euros, perhaps it's also time to start blooding some of the u21s, Quansah looks a real prospect for example, ready for the next World Cup. Nation League and most qualifying games are pretty much no more than trumped up friendlies anyway so some experimentation there might actually inject some meaning to the group games.

It might be difficult to assess if you have several 'fringers' playing. He may (benefit of the doubt) be taking a more scientific approach of just changing one element and seeing how that works.

Re. Quansah etc: Some players may excel in one system and style but struggle in another. Foden plays very well for City because they dominate the ball etc but looked ineffectual for GS's stodgy pragmatic ways.

Wouldn't it be easier for international managers to take the best players from the best teams and play the way they do at club level?

[Franchise FC]

Maybe he was taking the chance to test Maguire against a major football nation to see how much he could rely on him in big games going into the tournament.

Personally I think Maguire is such an easy stick to beat Southgate with, he should have dropped him for a few games in preparation where the result was less important, to show England fans what life is like without him. Because as we all know, the unselected players are all more and more world class the longer an unpopular player keeps them out.

Would agree with that totally. Desperately want to see what the "fringers" can do when it counts and maybe you might find someone who excels for England while being mediocre at club level rather than vice versa!

After the Euros, perhaps it's also time to start blooding some of the u21s, Quansah looks a real prospect for example, ready for the next World Cup. Nation League and most qualifying games are pretty much no more than trumped up friendlies anyway so some experimentation there might actually inject some meaning to the group games.

It might be difficult to assess if you have several 'fringers' playing. He may (benefit of the doubt) be taking a more scientific approach of just changing one element and seeing how that works.

Re. Quansah etc: Some players may excel in one system and style but struggle in another. Foden plays very well for City because they dominate the ball etc but looked ineffectual for GS's stodgy pragmatic ways.

Wouldn't it be easier for international managers to take the best players from the best teams and play the way they do at club level?

Qansah does indeed look good, but he’s got VVD for company

[Franchise FC]

I wish I hadn’t said that Dunk was steady.
That was just an “‘ave it” moment … just welly it out of play and regroup

[BRO_BOT]

Shame the defensive options are so meagre and we're screwed for a striker if Kane gets crocked.

CB: Stones, Ben White, Konsa, Tomori, Maguire, Colwil, Dunk, Branthwaite
FB: James, Chilwell, Shaw, Trippier, TAA, Walker

ST: Kane, Toney, Watkins, (Greenwood*)

Goalkeeper is the position we lack in, decent enough but no-one outstanding

I presume you've listed that lot to prove Sutekh's point
White has ruled himself out of selection
Konsa, Tomori, Colwil & Branthwaite aren't setting the world alight
Dunk is steady but no more and is probably on about par with Maguire
That leaves Stones

yeah, CB is a concern, as is Kane getting injured.

Pickford is a liability (and abitofatwat)

Only caught the last ten mins, looked decent until they got their second

[Franchise FC]

CB: Stones, Ben White, Konsa, Tomori, Maguire, Colwil, Dunk, Branthwaite
FB: James, Chilwell, Shaw, Trippier, TAA, Walker

ST: Kane, Toney, Watkins, (Greenwood*)

Goalkeeper is the position we lack in, decent enough but no-one outstanding

I presume you've listed that lot to prove Sutekh's point
White has ruled himself out of selection
Konsa, Tomori, Colwil & Branthwaite aren't setting the world alight
Dunk is steady but no more and is probably on about par with Maguire
That leaves Stones

yeah, CB is a concern, as is Kane getting injured.

Pickford is a liability (and abitofatwat)

Only caught the last ten mins, looked decent until they got their second

Actually, thought England looked very good throughout, with the notable exception of the defensive mistakes.
Equaliser was entirely deserved

[Sutekh]

I presume you've listed that lot to prove Sutekh's point
White has ruled himself out of selection
Konsa, Tomori, Colwil & Branthwaite aren't setting the world alight
Dunk is steady but no more and is probably on about par with Maguire
That leaves Stones

yeah, CB is a concern, as is Kane getting injured.

Pickford is a liability (and abitofatwat)

Only caught the last ten mins, looked decent until they got their second

Actually, thought England looked very good throughout, with the notable exception of the defensive mistakes.
Equaliser was entirely deserved

Wally Downes needed as defensive coach.

[URZZZZ]

Thing is, given the general negative reaction to us losing a football match by a single goal to Brazil, it's hard to imagine that had Southgate played a few more inexperienced players and we'd been thrashed 5-0, he'd have been criticised for that, too.

Fwiw, having seen some of the 'highlights packages' put together by United fans of Mainoo's little cameo, I'm beginning to see Southgate's point on Henderson again. We need someone to do that side to side, controlling role thingy. If Henderson's collage of clips this week had looked like Mainoo's, he'd have been torn down, again.

I've no issue with Stones playing every game - he is absolute class.

Declan Rice has crept up on me a bit - already 25, and tonight he will win his 50th England cap.

Finally - any fan who thinks that we 'should' win a major international tournament quite frankly has a misunderstanding of how football works - starting with the fact that the opposition do actually get a say in matters. See for example France simply playing really well when they beat us in the QFs at the World Cup.

Agreed with most of that

As someone who isn’t always fond of Southgate, and some of his decisions, I do still however find the general overall reaction to him as utter bizarre. You only have to point to the difference in results prior to his appointment and through his appointment to realise how well he’s done. I’m not sure he can take us to the next level (I.e winning a tournament) however he’s done a grand job of setting the foundations. Can see this being his last major tournament and I think it may be the right time

[URZZZZ]

Maybe he was taking the chance to test Maguire against a major football nation to see how much he could rely on him in big games going into the tournament.

Personally I think Maguire is such an easy stick to beat Southgate with, he should have dropped him for a few games in preparation where the result was less important, to show England fans what life is like without him. Because as we all know, the unselected players are all more and more world class the longer an unpopular player keeps them out.

Would agree with that totally. Desperately want to see what the "fringers" can do when it counts and maybe you might find someone who excels for England while being mediocre at club level rather than vice versa!

After the Euros, perhaps it's also time to start blooding some of the u21s, Quansah looks a real prospect for example, ready for the next World Cup. Nation League and most qualifying games are pretty much no more than trumped up friendlies anyway so some experimentation there might actually inject some meaning to the group games.

It might be difficult to assess if you have several 'fringers' playing. He may (benefit of the doubt) be taking a more scientific approach of just changing one element and seeing how that works.

Re. Quansah etc: Some players may excel in one system and style but struggle in another. Foden plays very well for City because they dominate the ball etc but looked ineffectual for GS's stodgy pragmatic ways.

Wouldn't it be easier for international managers to take the best players from the best teams and play the way they do at club level?

Another ‘greed

I do think Southgate is missing a trick by not using Sterling. Has a knack of scoring goals and being in the right place at the right time. Frustrating player but in games of tight margins, he’s quite often the difference

[Sanguine]

Agreed on Sterling. He is also a very direct player, moves quickly with the ball, something we don't have a lot of - although Foden is doing this more and more.

That said - I guess the likes of Bowen and Gordon are in the squad for exactly this.

As an aside - it's remarkable how quickly the 'Southgate is a dick because Grealish isn't an automatic starter' has totally evaporated. Maybe Gareth had it right.

[6ft Kerplunk]

Grealish is handy at a tournament though where set pieces can be key. Admittedly if he didn't slow every attack down, keep hold of the ball for too long so he ends up having to try and win a freekick every time we may score more from open play but he does win a lot of freekicks in wide areas and Maguire's massive slabhead is big target for the freekick taker to aim for.

[Sanguine]

Goalkeepers - Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope
Defenders - Maguire, Stones, Trippier, Chilwell, TAA, Walker
Midfield - Rice, Bellingham, Palmer, Henderson
Forwards - Kane, Saka, Foden, Grealish, Rashford

That's 18 players, but includes Henderson and Rashford. Assumes Shaw misses out to injury. You can probably add Guehi if fit, maybe Gomez. Maddison maybe has one foot on the plane.

But it's odd all the same that we have arguably our strongest squad in a generation, yet at the same time a few places in the squad still very much to play for.

Who have I missed?

One thing is nearly certain - through injuries and form, four players who took part in the Euro 2020 final won't be there - Shaw, Sterling, Sancho and Mount.

[BRO_BOT]

Thing is, given the general negative reaction to us losing a football match by a single goal to Brazil, it's hard to imagine that had Southgate played a few more inexperienced players and we'd been thrashed 5-0, he'd have been criticised for that, too.

Fwiw, having seen some of the 'highlights packages' put together by United fans of Mainoo's little cameo, I'm beginning to see Southgate's point on Henderson again. We need someone to do that side to side, controlling role thingy. If Henderson's collage of clips this week had looked like Mainoo's, he'd have been torn down, again.

I've no issue with Stones playing every game - he is absolute class.

Declan Rice has crept up on me a bit - already 25, and tonight he will win his 50th England cap.

Finally - any fan who thinks that we 'should' win a major international tournament quite frankly has a misunderstanding of how football works - starting with the fact that the opposition do actually get a say in matters. See for example France simply playing really well when they beat us in the QFs at the World Cup.

Agreed with most of that

As someone who isn’t always fond of Southgate, and some of his decisions, I do still however find the general overall reaction to him as utter bizarre. You only have to point to the difference in results prior to his appointment and through his appointment to realise how well he’s done. I’m not sure he can take us to the next level (I.e winning a tournament) however he’s done a grand job of setting the foundations. Can see this being his last major tournament and I think it may be the right time

He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments

[Sanguine]

Thing is, given the general negative reaction to us losing a football match by a single goal to Brazil, it's hard to imagine that had Southgate played a few more inexperienced players and we'd been thrashed 5-0, he'd have been criticised for that, too.

Fwiw, having seen some of the 'highlights packages' put together by United fans of Mainoo's little cameo, I'm beginning to see Southgate's point on Henderson again. We need someone to do that side to side, controlling role thingy. If Henderson's collage of clips this week had looked like Mainoo's, he'd have been torn down, again.

I've no issue with Stones playing every game - he is absolute class.

Declan Rice has crept up on me a bit - already 25, and tonight he will win his 50th England cap.

Finally - any fan who thinks that we 'should' win a major international tournament quite frankly has a misunderstanding of how football works - starting with the fact that the opposition do actually get a say in matters. See for example France simply playing really well when they beat us in the QFs at the World Cup.

Agreed with most of that

As someone who isn’t always fond of Southgate, and some of his decisions, I do still however find the general overall reaction to him as utter bizarre. You only have to point to the difference in results prior to his appointment and through his appointment to realise how well he’s done. I’m not sure he can take us to the next level (I.e winning a tournament) however he’s done a grand job of setting the foundations. Can see this being his last major tournament and I think it may be the right time

He got extremely lucky with the draws in both tournaments

Teams are always shit once England beat them, right?