England - the future....

[11.30 from paddington]

That's really refreshing and good to hear! Maybe they do know what they're doing after all.

Has the ref had to ask you to shut up yet?

[Royal Rother]

That's interesting.

Thing is with targets - they have to be set for any kind of evolving infrastructure to take shape and have purpose, and they have to be just about achievable and within a timescale that people can just about focus on. 2030 is too far away.

However, as has been said many times before, our 9 and 10 year olds are miles away from the abilities (skills, not necessarily athleticism) of our Dutch, German, Spanish and Italian counterparts. So actually I do agree, even if they were to start on that age group right now, they wouldn't be ready for 2022, so it probably is too early in reality.

[creative_username_1]

LOLz pure guesswork

[Royal Rother]

What's pure guesswork?

[creative_username_1]

predicting anything in the future. The development of youngsters etc. Not really aimed at your post

Also is it 11 world class players coming through at the same time or the infrastructure that has been put in place (or a combination)

[creative_username_1]

Just out of interest how do we know the skill ability of our youngsters isn't as good. How is this tested?

[Royal Rother]

It's a generally accepted "fact".

Mentioned by Greg Dyke this morning as one of the comments made to him recently but a top PL foreign manager. he said this manager said... "The trouble is, your 9 - 10 year olds are nowhere near... etc. etc."

[Royal Rother]

predicting anything in the future. The development of youngsters etc. Not really aimed at your post

Also is it 11 world class players coming through at the same time or the infrastructure that has been put in place (or a combination)

Targeting and predicting are 2 very different things.

Personally I suspect that the chance factor plays only a relatively small part in it. We have some fantastic qualities but if our current crop had been trained differently as kids it's really not hard to believe that they would be more comfortable in possession than they are now, which is pretty much an essential quality to compete at the very highest level. I genuinely believe that of the current English squad only Wilshere (and possibly Rooney) has the qualities to get anywhere near the Spanish or German teams.

We need to give ourselves the best possible chance of competing strongly for honours by implementing a whole series of measures, from recruiting and training better coaches, forming better structures to kids football (TBM's comments are encouraging), education through to 18yo, and ensuring that the Academies are not full of foreign players are the obvious ones I suppose.

All been said many times before of course, so there's nothing new here.

[snellbaker]

Prior saw the news, said: "The situation in the Premier League would impede the development of England for this argument, how do you think about?"

[Barry the bird boggler]

First thing that's needs putting in place is quota. Simply all sides - in any league in any part of the world - must include a minimum of 6 players in the starting line up that are nationals of that country. i.e. Every team affiliated to the FA would have to field a minimum of 6 English players. Teams affiliated to the Welsh FA must field a minimum of 6 Welsh players etc. The same would apply to international club competitions.

[Mr Angry]

First thing that's needs putting in place is quota. Simply all sides - in any league in any part of the world - must include a minimum of 6 players in the starting line up that are nationals of that country. i.e. Every team affiliated to the FA would have to field a minimum of 6 English players. Teams affiliated to the Welsh FA must field a minimum of 6 Welsh players etc. The same would apply to international club competitions.

The problems with this idea are numerous and varied; for a start, define "English". At the moment, a club can get a 14yr old from Spain into its academy, and after a relatively short number of Years, is England qualified due to residency. Does that make them English?

You would then fall foul of EU legislation on free movement of people and free movement of labour, and add to that potential issues regarding restraint of trade by both non-English players (and as has been seen recently, anything that smacks of favouring the local population over anyone else from the EU gets slapped down by the ECHR) and by the clubs themselves.

Dyke's statement was classic Senior Exec grand-standing; make bold targets that make you look as if you are a visionary, point out some of the problems to achieving those targets but NONE of the solutions, and know full well that you are unlikely to be around to face the music when those targets are inevitably not reached. Pathetic.

The reality is that as long as there is the Premier League with greedy owners (many of whom are not English) who have absolutely no reason to help the National team, nothing will change.

[Barry the bird boggler]

English would mean an English national. If a player does a Kanu i.e. opts to play for another country because they once had a gran from there then they should be reclassified as a national of that country as that is where their football allegiance obviously lies

Therefore if Reading sign a Spaniard at 16 he remains a Spaniard unless he is able and wants and gets selected to play for England

All quite simple really.

Yes there is the other argument but then there are always other issues for example the transfer window can be called a restraint of trade and also preventing freedom of movement to a degree.

[creative_username_1]

First thing that's needs putting in place is quota. Simply all sides - in any league in any part of the world - must include a minimum of 6 players in the starting line up that are nationals of that country. i.e. Every team affiliated to the FA would have to field a minimum of 6 English players. Teams affiliated to the Welsh FA must field a minimum of 6 Welsh players etc. The same would apply to international club competitions.

If the English players were good enough they'd be playing

[stealthpapes]

I honestly don't think it works like that.

If you subscribe to theories about 10, 000 hours of formative training, what players need as they come through chances to play football at the appropriate level. If they're not getting those chances, then they won't develop the last few steps and won't make it, in the long term.

I think there's a further effect where smaller, less physical players get muscled out a few years earlier than that, so the way we play the game in the British Isles is selecting out certain players that could have made it.

[Royal Rother]

Big clubs also have a tendency to stunt the development of top young players. Sign them up, then put them in the Reserves or send them out on loan.

And / or they tell them if you are going to get into the 1st team you've got to play with more discipline, they just make them more workmanlike like all the other England players.

Josh McEachran for instance, before he gets anywhere near the 1st team Mourinho will have to be convinced he won't try anything extravagant during a game.

James Milner is a good player, but where are those silky moves, the deft touches he showed as a teenager? He should be even better at those than he was back then but no, that individuality has been coached out of him. Maybe he is a better / more reliable all round player as a result of the coaching he has received but I just think he's symptomatic of a big problem in English clubs. Those skills are the things that should be nurtured and developed not smothered, because it's those that win tournaments.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Always the England way though isn't it. Currie, Hoddle, Hudson, Bowles, le Tissier, Marsh, Mckenzie etc. all struggled to get consistent England appearances as they were not seen as workmanlike and disciplined enough

[Royal Rother]

Yep, good call.

Worthington might fit that group too. Maybe even Jimmy Greaves.

[retro_royal]

Is this the same RoyaLOL Rother that thought Adkins should be the next England manager trying to suggest changes?

[floyd__streete]

English people are just rubbish at sport m8s.

England football team - RUBBISH.
England cricket team - mainly Saffers.
By far and away the best British tennis player - Scottish.

[sandman]

Best Long distance runner - Somalian