WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

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Whore Jackie
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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Whore Jackie » 17 Jun 2014 12:44

Big Foot Not read any of the post-match stuff posted before this, but I thought this was a refreshing performance from England at a tournament after a fairly uninspiring 2006, awful 2010 and a (largely) forgettable Euro 2012.

2 defensive errors for their goals - abysmal lack of pressure on the ball for the 1st one and then the 2nd goal Baines gets twisted inside out and Cahill should never turn his back in his own 6 yard box...

Only thing I didn't agree with was putting Wilshere on ahead of Lallana


Agreed. Decent performance from Roy's first XI. Not overly convinced that any of the subs were that good, but Wilshire did the least. Find him so frustrating as a player, why does he insist on taking the ball so close to the opposition player?

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by No Fixed Abode » 17 Jun 2014 12:50

Tactically Roy was a bit naive. With 10/15mins to go, he should have hauled off the inconspicuous Gerrard and put Lampard on. If you need a goal from midfield, he's the man.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by sandman » 17 Jun 2014 13:24

That's not really being tactically naive m8 it's not picking your favourite player.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by jd82 » 17 Jun 2014 13:34

No Fixed Abode Tactically Roy was a bit naive. With 10/15mins to go, he should have hauled off the inconspicuous Gerrard and put Lampard on. If you need a goal from midfield, he's the man.


Or just put Lamps on instead of (IMO the massively overrated) Wilshere.

Personally if have given Henderson the hike and put Lambert on for the last 10/15. Nothing more to lose at that point.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Big Foot » 17 Jun 2014 13:45

Whore Jackie
Big Foot Not read any of the post-match stuff posted before this, but I thought this was a refreshing performance from England at a tournament after a fairly uninspiring 2006, awful 2010 and a (largely) forgettable Euro 2012.

2 defensive errors for their goals - abysmal lack of pressure on the ball for the 1st one and then the 2nd goal Baines gets twisted inside out and Cahill should never turn his back in his own 6 yard box...

Only thing I didn't agree with was putting Wilshere on ahead of Lallana


Agreed. Decent performance from Roy's first XI. Not overly convinced that any of the subs were that good, but Wilshire did the least. Find him so frustrating as a player, why does he insist on taking the ball so close to the opposition player?
Chap I work with is an Arsenal STHer and he prefers Arsenal to play without Wilshere as he slows the pace down for them too much - he does the same for England, IMO.


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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Hoop Blah » 17 Jun 2014 14:08

Zana Badawi Rooney's problem is that he's doing the stuff that we have an abundance of players in the squad that are capable of doing.
Take the assist, for example. Assists we can do, we have lots of players comfortable in the final third (and in wide areas in particular). Thats not Rooney's role.
Rooney's role is providing the cutting edge and he isnt doing that. He's the player that should be on the end of the assists.


See I think that's more your problem than Rooney's. Yes he's in the side to be a goal threat and he's got 39 goals in 90 odd games for England, so he's generally doing that, but he isn't really there to be this magical flair player or just a fox in the box to be on the end of things (if he was he wouldn't be played out left). The likes of Sterling and Sturridge are the flair players now and Rooney's role has, IMO, evolved from that as he's grown older and more responsible as a player.

His role is to give us a bit of a cutting edge yes but it's more to be the fulcrum of the attack and to get the others to play around him. His cutting edge is to make fewer mistakes, be more reliable in keeping the ball and creating things and that's why he's always been more of a number 10 and not a number 9.

He can offer more, and should've hit the target and probably scored with his best chance against Italy, but it's the unrealistic expectations for his performances that are the real problem.

Edit: There might be an argument that we need something different in the side, but in terms of doing what (it seems) Hodgson has been asking him to do lately I think he's been performing reasonably well. Can do better, but is nowhere near the ineffective poor performances many seem to suggest.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by No Fixed Abode » 17 Jun 2014 18:06

sandman That's not really being tactically naive m8 it's not picking your favourite player.


During Woy's reign, the top three goalscorers have been

Rooney 11
Welbeck 8
Lampard 6

If I was 2-1 down chasing the game with not long left, I'd want my biggest goal threats on the pitch.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Mr.Swainey » 17 Jun 2014 18:30

No Fixed Abode
sandman That's not really being tactically naive m8 it's not picking your favourite player.


During Woy's reign, the top three goalscorers have been

Rooney 11
Welbeck 8
Lampard 6

If I was 2-1 down chasing the game with not long left, I'd want my biggest goal threats on the pitch.


Yeah, but Frank is rubbish, always has been a bit lightweight in midfield.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Royal Rother » 17 Jun 2014 20:31

One thing Lampard has never been is lightweight.


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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Ian Royal » 17 Jun 2014 21:14

Rooney reacting like a true professional and not a petulant child. FFS keep the knuckle-dragging moron away from social media and microphones.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Royal Rother » 17 Jun 2014 22:56

Why? What's he done?

Only thing I saw was a quick explanation of why he was doing "extra training".

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Hoop Blah » 18 Jun 2014 09:00

I'm not a big fan of Rooney's personality but if he's been getting negative comments over the fact he wants to train and be as sharp as possible then firstly it's ridiculous, and secondly, I've no real problem with the reasonable calm and polite explanation that was posted on Facebook.

He obviously wants to do well for England and I think it's a shame the 'agenda' (as I believe Lampard has referred to it) is growing so that the media have something to fill their air time and column inches.

It'll be interesting to see if Sterling and Rooney switch for Thursdays game. Playing Sterling, with his pace and enthusiasm, to buzz around the gaps left by Pirlo and to worry him with his ability to get closer to him more quickly was a good move by Hodgson (if that was the reason) but I'd still see a lot of sense in getting Lallana on the left, Sterling on the right with Rooney in the hole against Uruguay.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Royalclapper » 18 Jun 2014 12:08

One thing in Rooney's favour is that the ref will be Spain's Carlos Velasco Carballo who bought into his dive against Bayern Munich when Schweinsteiger was sent off at Old Trafford. Hope it doesn't work against us though as Uruguay are up there with the best of them.


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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Whatevs » 18 Jun 2014 12:17

Royalclapper One thing in Rooney's favour is that the ref will be Spain's Carlos Velasco Carballo who bought into his dive against Bayern Munich when Schweinsteiger was sent off at Old Trafford. Hope it doesn't work against us though as Uruguay are up there with the best of them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5d1OfoaLo

not sure you can say it's a dive when a player goes in like that and gets nowhere near the ball. What's Rooney supposed to do

pretty dumb of Schweinsteiger

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by stealthpapes » 18 Jun 2014 12:21

... wasn't it a second yellow, which for a tackle like that, missing the ball, doesn't seem unreasonable?

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Royalclapper » 18 Jun 2014 12:57

Think this one might give you a clearer view, he won the ball and Rooney dived over him to relieve the constant pressure Utd were under by winning the free kick - not a red card incident IMO.

https://vine.co/v/MetU6g5FzFZ

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Hoop Blah » 20 Jun 2014 13:36

Zana Badawi Rooney's problem is that he's doing the stuff that we have an abundance of players in the squad that are capable of doing.
Take the assist, for example. Assists we can do, we have lots of players comfortable in the final third (and in wide areas in particular). Thats not Rooney's role.
Rooney's role is providing the cutting edge and he isnt doing that. He's the player that should be on the end of the assists.


I think last night showed how the likes of Welbeck, Sterling, Barkley etc aren't as composed as Rooney in those key moment and aren't just as capable of delivering that killer pass that Rooney was kept in the side to make.

We got in loads of good positions to create with the right pass and failed far too often. Our one assist, as they pointed out on the TV coverage, actually came from a half tackle when Johnson over ran the ball.

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Re: WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

by Ian Royal » 20 Jun 2014 17:38

That's not fair on Johnson's contribution to that goal at all.

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