WC 2014 - Match 7 - England vs Italy

[Ouroboros]

Oh, Kes.

[sandman]

I just hope Lux has forgotten this by the time that NFA's sister gets cancer.

You are seriously out or order. We're discussing football and you've over stepped the mark massively there.

'greed m8. Think.you need to go off in a huff for a month or so like you did when you were accused of sleeping with her.

[Royalclapper]

Why all this focus on Rooney, if he'd taken his chance he'd be our hero, he got himself into the position to create the opening.

It was Wellbeck that switched off then couldn't be arsed to make up the ground, that left us so exposed for the 2nd goal

Totally agree. Rooney had a decent game, only a 7/10 perhaps, but he did what we needed to and you know he'll deliver quality more often than not if he's put into a position to deliver as he was when Sterling put him through.

Who would you rather have on the ball in those crucial moments? Wellbeck, Barkley or Rooney?

He didn't take the couple of chances that came his way, but he's more reliable than the others at doing so.

.

Really?

Where was the quality? A square ball across the box after receiving an equally good if not better pass. I'm afraid there is little in his play to suggest he's anything other than a sulking former star on the decline. He's surely only getting in the team due to the pressure of his commercial sponsors interests which seems to be KFC & Regal King Size at the moment.

There can't be many more crucial moments than finding yourself free and unmarked in the box to smash home an equaliser and gain a superb point, at which time he choked and snatched it wide in lame fashion. Scoring against part-time posties is one thing, showing your composure and quality against Italy is another. "He can win a game on his own" I've heard a lot of........it's about time he did it then. England owe him fcuk all.

[Ian Royal]

Who would you rather have on the ball in those crucial moments? Wellbeck, Barkley or Rooney?

Lallana, who also wouldn't have been totally missing defensively down the left hand side as Rooney was the entire first half and Welbeck was for their winner.

if you're going to play Rooney, play him up top or in the hole. But frankly, Ox and Stirling have performed far better in the hole than him and Sturridge the same up top. So he's been crowbarred in to the detriment of the team, just like Lampard and Gerrard together for years.

[Whatevs]

Not sure about Rooney. England's all-time top goalscorer in competitive internationals. At club level he really has done it at the top level. Leading English scorer in the Champions League. Over half those goals those goals have come in the later knockout stages (he has the highest % for this just over 50%) but....

when he's playing badly he's often the worst player on the pitch (but also end up scoring the winner)

[Whatevs]

Who would you rather have on the ball in those crucial moments? Wellbeck, Barkley or Rooney?

Lallana, who also wouldn't have been totally missing defensively down the left hand side as Rooney was the entire first half and Welbeck was for their winner.

I went back in time and tested this and he did go missing, sorry about that m8

[Zana Badawi]

Really?

Where was the quality? A square ball across the box after receiving an equally good if not better pass. I'm afraid there is little in his play to suggest he's anything other than a sulking former star on the decline. He's surely only getting in the team due to the pressure of his commercial sponsors interests which seems to be KFC & Regal King Size at the moment.

There can't be many more crucial moments than finding yourself free and unmarked in the box to smash home an equaliser and gain a superb point, at which time he choked and snatched it wide in lame fashion. Scoring against part-time posties is one thing, showing your composure and quality against Italy is another. "He can win a game on his own" I've heard a lot of........it's about time he did it then. England owe him fcuk all.

Yeah, Im beginning to come around to these sentiments. Sure its admirable that Roy believes he can manage Rooney's form, but there is some point that he has to produce, otherwise we get the Paul Scholes scenario, where a player gets endless caps for being a passenger. I believe that a 3 game league situation is just the time to produce and Rooney's failed the first step.

[Hoop Blah]

Who would you rather have on the ball in those crucial moments? Wellbeck, Barkley or Rooney?

Lallana, who also wouldn't have been totally missing defensively down the left hand side as Rooney was the entire first half and Welbeck was for their winner.

if you're going to play Rooney, play him up top or in the hole. But frankly, Ox and Stirling have performed far better in the hole than him and Sturridge the same up top. So he's been crowbarred in to the detriment of the team, just like Lampard and Gerrard together for years.

Lallana is, I think, the one who offers the best alternative at the moment but if you'd played Lallana, Sterling and Wellbeck together you're gambling on 3 players in your attacking unit and the only one that isn't really a gamble would've been Wellbeck, and he's the weakest of the options.

As for the what quality comment from royalclapper, well Rooney's ball, played on the run with his weaker foot and delivered with near inch perfect weight and placement was a great ball. Yep, he should've hit the target and scored the chance when Baines put him in but every other player we have would probably miss more of those chances than Rooney. Perhaps he snatched at it because of the daft pressure that's been placed on him over the last couple of weeks as the media have discussed the non-story of his selection.

[Big Foot]

Not read any of the post-match stuff posted before this, but I thought this was a refreshing performance from England at a tournament after a fairly uninspiring 2006, awful 2010 and a (largely) forgettable Euro 2012.

2 defensive errors for their goals - abysmal lack of pressure on the ball for the 1st one and then the 2nd goal Baines gets twisted inside out and Cahill should never turn his back in his own 6 yard box...

Only thing I didn't agree with was putting Wilshere on ahead of Lallana

[Hoop Blah]

I believe that a 3 game league situation is just the time to produce and Rooney's failed the first step.

This is the kind of statement that I see as being pure rubbish I'm afraid.

Did he fail? No, he played his part in a pretty good team performance.

Did he tear Italy a new arsehole and execute every decision, pass, shot and touch with perfection? No, obviously not but even as possibly our best player he isn't going to. Messi was pretty rubbish for Argentina last night. He lost possesion 24 times apparently and hit the target with only 1 of his 4 shots, but did manage to score his 1st goal for them in the World Cup for 8 years and 623 minutes of football (and it's only his 2nd World Cup goal too). Will they be talking about dropping him? No, of course they won't.

[No Fixed Abode]

I just hope Lux has forgotten this by the time that NFA's sister gets cancer.

You are seriously out or order. We're discussing football and you've over stepped the mark massively there.

'greed m8. Think.you need to go off in a huff for a month or so like you did when you were accused of sleeping with her.

Yep - and we've all just seen what's happened to Sanguine, one of the main instigators with that.

[Hoop Blah]

I've not seen it mentioned much but what's the general opinion of the penalty shout for the barge on Gerrard?

I'm not sure how it isn't a foul myself. Anywhere else on the pitch and it's a freekick surely?

[winchester_royal]

I've not seen it mentioned much but what's the general opinion of the penalty shout for the barge on Gerrard?

I'm not sure how it isn't a foul myself. Anywhere else on the pitch and it's a freekick surely?

I thought it was a stonewall pen personally. Surprised more hasn't been made of it.

[jd82]

Looked like a pen to me too. But I was pretty smashed by then. Maybe not so much has been made of it as we haven't been trying to mask a poor performance by hiding behind some injustice.

[Ian Royal]

I've not seen it mentioned much but what's the general opinion of the penalty shout for the barge on Gerrard?

I'm not sure how it isn't a foul myself. Anywhere else on the pitch and it's a freekick surely?

I thought it was a stonewall pen personally. Surprised more hasn't been made of it.

I can't remember clearly, but I think I thought it looked a decent case for one.

[Will95]

Thought we didn't do too bad to be honest, especially in the first half. Both and the Italians looked decent. I just think by half time the heat had taken it out of us. Sterling was brilliant.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I thought we were pretty average tbf. QF fodder at best

[Hoop Blah]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27879498

Some sensible comments, yet again, from Gary Neville about the Rooney debate which pretty much sums up my thoughts on level of comment about his form and selection.

[Big Foot]

The 39-year-old said: "Two years ago, we were on the ropes with our gloves up, defending for 12 rounds but losing on points.
"The other night, we won a few rounds. It doesn't win you the football match but, in terms of the bigger picture, we see where we're going.
"Some of the football was the best I've seen from England in 10 or 15 years in a World Cup or European Championship match.

Agreed 100%

[Zana Badawi]

I believe that a 3 game league situation is just the time to produce and Rooney's failed the first step.

This is the kind of statement that I see as being pure rubbish I'm afraid.

Did he fail? No, he played his part in a pretty good team performance.

Did he tear Italy a new arsehole and execute every decision, pass, shot and touch with perfection? No, obviously not but even as possibly our best player he isn't going to. Messi was pretty rubbish for Argentina last night. He lost possesion 24 times apparently and hit the target with only 1 of his 4 shots, but did manage to score his 1st goal for them in the World Cup for 8 years and 623 minutes of football (and it's only his 2nd World Cup goal too). Will they be talking about dropping him? No, of course they won't.

Rooney's problem is that he's doing the stuff that we have an abundance of players in the squad that are capable of doing.
Take the assist, for example. Assists we can do, we have lots of players comfortable in the final third (and in wide areas in particular). Thats not Rooney's role.
Rooney's role is providing the cutting edge and he isnt doing that. He's the player that should be on the end of the assists.
The best analogy is probably Pogrebnyak at Reading - another striker who needs to up his strike rate. He MAY look good running sideways, but a striker without an eye for goal, isnt really a striker. I can see Roy WANTS to include Rooney, but isnt getting much joy in return - I wouldnt be massively surprised if he's dropped for the next game.