Another finals another load of idiots

[AthleticoSpizz]

St Pauli says......."If Parisienne beer prices are representitive of the other venues, then they are probably just demonstrating"

[St Pauli]

The German fans are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The French police are using heavy-handed out of date tactics, and the Ukrainians, as ever, are the ones starting the trouble.

It's just easy to blame the Germans and it's classic anti German bias in the tabloid media.

[Maneki Neko]

So why were Polish and Northern Irish fans attacked in Nice by French ultras last night?
Was that their fault as well?
Police used the same aggressive tactics there as well.

I don't know. I wasn't in Nice. And I don't know what the travelling support of Northern Ireland and Poland look like. Or what their respective drinking cultures are like.

I've seen England away in Germany in 2006.

If you don't want to get attacked by local firms, don't drink for 12 hours solid, in massive groups, getting off your face, intentionally blocking roads, singing 'twelve German bombers', 'two world wars and one world cup' over and over. If you want to do that, do that. But don't play the victim when you get a smack and then get beaten up because you're all mouth.

The only reason there wasn't more violence at Germany 2006 was everything was done from an organisational, policing, media reporting* and pyschological perspective to prevent it. The French organisation doesn't seem to have been great, but that doesn't change England fans part responsibility for this. England fans behaved terribly at points in Germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhU0PXD7KI

*I was surprised by the widespread reporting of the incidents Thursday- that was a mistake, which probably exacerbated things Friday and Saturday.

they deserve to get battered for drinking and singing?
Lol. Dont care what theyre singing, thats kinda bollox

[Maneki Neko]

The German fans are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The French police are using heavy-handed out of date tactics, and the Ukrainians, as ever, are the ones starting the trouble.

It's just easy to blame the Germans and it's classic anti German bias in the tabloid media.

Apols for previous po faced reply.
Didnt realise

[Winston Smith]

The German fans are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The French police are using heavy-handed out of date tactics, and the Ukrainians, as ever, are the ones starting the trouble.

It's just easy to blame the Germans and it's classic anti German bias in the tabloid media.

It's the tabloid media infiltrating the German fans and throwing chairs at the Ukrainians

[Winston Smith]

Disgusting scenes as Ukraine fans and the tabloid media go toe to toe outside a pub

https://mobile.twitter.com/br_uk/status/742045555140988928/video/1

[Maneki Neko]

Reports on talk sport that the flare was the signal for trouble and caused the Russians to split, one group attacking across the seating, while another set stormed the concourse to attack the fleeing fans.

Organised. Orchestrated.owful

[leon]

Reports on talk sport that the flare was the signal for trouble and caused the Russians to split, one group attacking across the seating, while another set stormed the concourse to attack the fleeing fans.

Organised. Orchestrated.owful

Oh fcuk off with that bollocks.

[Ian Royal]

So why were Polish and Northern Irish fans attacked in Nice by French ultras last night?
Was that their fault as well?
Police used the same aggressive tactics there as well.

I don't know. I wasn't in Nice. And I don't know what the travelling support of Northern Ireland and Poland look like. Or what their respective drinking cultures are like.

I've seen England away in Germany in 2006.

If you don't want to get attacked by local firms, don't drink for 12 hours solid, in massive groups, getting off your face, intentionally blocking roads, singing 'twelve German bombers', 'two world wars and one world cup' over and over. If you want to do that, do that. But don't play the victim when you get a smack and then get beaten up because you're all mouth.

The only reason there wasn't more violence at Germany 2006 was everything was done from an organisational, policing, media reporting* and pyschological perspective to prevent it. The French organisation doesn't seem to have been great, but that doesn't change England fans part responsibility for this. England fans behaved terribly at points in Germany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhU0PXD7KI

*I was surprised by the widespread reporting of the incidents Thursday- that was a mistake, which probably exacerbated things Friday and Saturday.

they deserve to get battered for drinking and singing?
Lol. Dont care what theyre singing, thats kinda bollox

Hmmm, it's a difficult one, but I kinda know what he means.

No one really deserves to get a kicking*. But if you're going to be loud, obnoxious, drunk and offensive you are really putting yourself in a position you're likely to provoke some unsavoury people into reacting. And whilst they are responsible for their actions, you have to take some responsibility for creating the circumstances that led to those actions.



*that's overstating it a bit perhaps.

[leon]

England away fans are massive cnuts.i think we would probably all agree on that. Moronic, loud, obnoxious, nasty a cnuts. The very worst of this fine country of ours.

I'm in Marseilles next weekend I'll send a reportage of me bashing up the polish and Ukrainians.

[Greatwesternline]

I was in Berlin for Germany England in March. No reported trouble. About 3000 fans gather around an irish bar in a nice bit of Berlin and take over.

It is f****ng intimidating. 3000 men singing, being loud. It doesnt sound bad written on the internet, but if you are a normal person going about your daily business and you encouter 3000 men singing songs, not wearing much clothing, being lary, you have no idea whether they are peaceful or not. Songs about WWII dont go down very well, funnily enough.

Jeering at mothers or fathers passing by picking up their children to whisk themselves away from the crowd as fast as possible doesn't help.
If you are an english male who watches football you can use your well trained soft emotional skills to work out a crowd of englishman are just singing and dont intend to cause physical harm, but if you've not seen it before it would be very scary.

I've done Barmy Army for the ashes in australia, its not the same, but people sit in bars drinking without the need to be rowdy.

People can justify it all they want, but at the end of the day, football supporters are idiots, who like letting off steam. There was little trouble in South Africe, Brazil, South Korea, why? Because the clientelle were more monied cricket rugby watching type. There was no one attacking them and they didnt do any attacking.

There are plenty of local violent types in J'burg, Cape Town, or Rio to start on england fans, but they didnt...so by deduction it's fairly likely that england fans behaviour is probably a large factor in causing trouble.

All that aside, the trouble in the ground itself against probable middle class england fans sufficiently well organised and well off to get themselves in a ballot for tickets does seem to be an open and shut case of Russian aggression with no policing to prevent it, which if we were all honest would be an incredibly scary thing to be confronted with if you are genuinely there to have a pleasant time.

[paultheroyal]

I was in Berlin for Germany England in March. No reported trouble. About 3000 fans gather around an irish bar in a nice bit of Berlin and take over.

It is f****ng intimidating. 3000 men singing, being loud. It doesnt sound bad written on the internet, but if you are a normal person going about your daily business and you encouter 3000 men singing songs, not wearing much clothing, being lary, you have no idea whether they are peaceful or not. Songs about WWII dont go down very well, funnily enough.

Jeering at mothers or fathers passing by picking up their children to whisk themselves away from the crowd as fast as possible doesn't help.
If you are an english male who watches football you can use your well trained soft emotional skills to work out a crowd of englishman are just singing and dont intend to cause physical harm, but if you've not seen it before it would be very scary.

I've done Barmy Army for the ashes in australia, its not the same, but people sit in bars drinking without the need to be rowdy.

People can justify it all they want, but at the end of the day, football supporters are idiots, who like letting off steam. There was little trouble in South Africe, Brazil, South Korea, why? Because the clientelle were more monied cricket rugby watching type. There was no one attacking them and they didnt do any attacking.

There are plenty of local violent types in J'burg, Cape Town, or Rio to start on england fans, but they didnt...so by deduction it's fairly likely that england fans behaviour is probably a large factor in causing trouble.

All that aside, the trouble in the ground itself against probable middle class england fans sufficiently well organised and well off to get themselves in a ballot for tickets does seem to be an open and shut case of Russian aggression with no policing to prevent it, which if we were all honest would be an incredibly scary thing to be confronted with if you are genuinely there to have a pleasant time.

Spot on

[LWJ]

The German fans are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The French police are using heavy-handed out of date tactics, and the Ukrainians, as ever, are the ones starting the trouble.

It's just easy to blame the Germans and it's classic anti German bias in the tabloid media.

[Royal Lady]

The fighting in the stadium involved the Russians attacking women, children and old people - don't for one minute think this was stupid hooligan v stupid hooligan. It clearly was orchestrated earlier, as the Russians etc arrived "tooled up" as "hooligans" like to call it. I would rather listen to people like Stan Collymore who videoed it and Rebekah Vardy who was caught up in it, than listen to lame excuses on here or take any notice of what our, frankly, pathetic media say.

[LUX]

an unsurprising at all the Ingurland hooligan apologists on here.

Yes, the Russians are equally to blame this time ( notably in the stadium. They have rightly been threatened with expulsion from the competition too). Of course locals incited the England fans in Marseille , no doubt. But there were some disgusting scenes created by (a minority) of English fans in the city over the weekend.

You cannot ignore the effect this is having on our reputation as a country. It is very much the lead story on the TV news/papers over here (until the Orlando massacre).

The irony of being thrown out of the Euros is fantastic in view of the referendum.

[Royal Lady]

I'm not a hooligan apologist! I've been caught up in some horrible situations at Elm Park and away games in the past to abhor them, however, immediately there was trouble, the media (OUR media in particular!) blamed the England fans - the VAST majority just like a drink and a laugh and to enjoy the games. The fact that, despite apparent strict security due to the bombings in November, they allow flare guns into stadia is pathetic. I worry for our 3 boys when they are out there later to be honest.

[Brosef Stalin]

That's Brendy on the far right, right?



Also, you may say he's just the token black guy but it's a start. Black and white happily fighting side by side
it's what Rosa Parks would have wanted

[LUX]

I'm not a hooligan apologist! I've been caught up in some horrible situations at Elm Park and away games in the past to abhor them, however, immediately there was trouble, the media (OUR media in particular!) blamed the England fans - the VAST majority just like a drink and a laugh and to enjoy the games. The fact that, despite apparent strict security due to the bombings in November, they allow flare guns into stadia is pathetic. I worry for our 3 boys when they are out there later to be honest.

I agree that
a. the Russian surge at the end was disgusting. Attacking women and kids. In fact, attacking anybody.
b. stadium security was flawed, that's clear.

but even if we apportion only a third of the blame to our lot, that is enough. The trouble is the port (based on French tv coverage ) was mostly pissed up English chanting stuff like "we are racist and we like it" and "stick your EU up your arse", fighting the police and smashing the place up.

[Royal Lady]

How do you know this though Lux - what you've been told in the media? I cannot believe that England fans would choose to fight the police - we don't particularly have a hooligan problem here anymore, heck, I feel safe at Millwall these days! From listening to reports of people who are out there, the police just started on them. Tbh, if I was hit by a truncheon or whatever and I hadn't done anything wrong, I'd probably be suitably pissed off and angry to hit back. Am I a hooligan, am I fook!

[Royal Lady]

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016