Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[WestYorksRoyal]

My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

I'd agree with this. Putting aside infrastructure and simply keeping up with wages, handing out long-term contract to older players is a killer financially. I do wonder if we may have been in a better state financially this season had we avoided relegation and had Championship revenue without earners like Moore, Puscas etc., But we'd have struggled to recruit still and may well have gone down this season. And it took years of harsh restraints to get us to a manageable wage bill, with the likes of Aluko and Baldock needing to see out their contracts. Every year you hoped we were over the worst but there were still too many contracts left to run off. Though in hindsight, at least we stayed up as long as we did. Imagine we'd been relegated with our obscene wage bill in 2019.

If Everton are at that point now, are Chelsea planting the seeds? In the next year or so they'll decide they need to strengthen again and not have any room to.

Chelsea will have to look to sell Palmer, Gallagher and/or Colwill as no-one will want to pay the stupid money they need for the numerous players they won't mind losing.

Gallagher and Colwill are likely. Good players who can command up to £50m each and as they are academy players it would be recognised as pure profit for FFP.

Things have to get completely desperate for them to sell Palmer. The star of the team, 4 years left on his contract and basically the only good thing about Chelsea this season. When you look at the prices Maguire and Grealish went for, you could easily get £100m+ but it would be a disaster footballing wise.

[Mr Angry]

My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

Everton are really in the deep brown sticky stuff.

They were saying that 777 were funding them this season; er......no. 777 LOANED them the cash to carry on trading; £192M so far.

Add that £192M to the £225M they borrowed from Rights & Media Funding (RMF) and the £160m from a consortium of MSP Capital and wealthy Evertonians Andy Bell and George Downing, and you have loans to the value of £575M sitting over them right now, and with no way of paying it back currently.

The thought is that if they beat Sheffield Utd this weekend they will immediately go into Administration and take the automatic 9 point deduction as it means that they would still be safe from relegation this season.

As The Guardian puts it in an article from today:

"This (administration) would be a more beneficial option for some than others.

It would probably mean that RMF and the MSP consortium are paid back, because each has security over Everton’s assets (property and bank accounts in the case of RMF and the new stadium development at Bramley-Moore Dock for MSP).

777 may receive some of its £192m back, as it is understood to have some subordinated security with RMF, meaning it starts to get money back after RMF has been repaid.

A further £450m of loans provided to Everton by Bluesky Capital, which the club’s accounts say is “controlled by” Moshiri, are not secured – suggesting administration would leave that company nursing huge losses. The 94% stake in Everton, which is held by a Moshiri Isle of Man company, would probably also be worthless."



And Sean Dyche is bemoaning the fact that he might have to sell some of his better players!!!!!!

[Sutekh]

Well we need a big club to go under as it might wake the rest of the idiots up

[From Despair To Where?]

Indeed, but the Everton fans I speak to don't believe it can happen to them and therein lies part of the problem.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Well we need a big club to go under as it might wake the rest of the idiots up

Everton would be rescued somehow, including government intervention if necessary. It would be a humiliation too great for the "best league in the world" to lose a club of that size.

But hopefully it does act as a wake up call and convinces politicians of a need for a strong regulator.

[SouthDownsRoyal]

My original post was more about the reaction of Everton fans and how I'd heard the same arguments about us for about 5 years. I think they've got their heads in the sand.

They need to trim their wage bill and I think they will struggle to recruit adequate quality next season because they will be labelled a crisis club.

I'll also be amazed if they get through next season without a points deduction and if they get relegated next season, I can see them being in the Championship for a decade.

The stadium may be state of the art but they can't afford to pay for it. They've already put the opening back a year. Realistically, they need £500m worth of investment and I don't see where it's coming from.

Everton are really in the deep brown sticky stuff.

They were saying that 777 were funding them this season; er......no. 777 LOANED them the cash to carry on trading; £192M so far.

Add that £192M to the £225M they borrowed from Rights & Media Funding (RMF) and the £160m from a consortium of MSP Capital and wealthy Evertonians Andy Bell and George Downing, and you have loans to the value of £575M sitting over them right now, and with no way of paying it back currently.

The thought is that if they beat Sheffield Utd this weekend they will immediately go into Administration and take the automatic 9 point deduction as it means that they would still be safe from relegation this season.

As The Guardian puts it in an article from today:

"This (administration) would be a more beneficial option for some than others.

It would probably mean that RMF and the MSP consortium are paid back, because each has security over Everton’s assets (property and bank accounts in the case of RMF and the new stadium development at Bramley-Moore Dock for MSP).

777 may receive some of its £192m back, as it is understood to have some subordinated security with RMF, meaning it starts to get money back after RMF has been repaid.

A further £450m of loans provided to Everton by Bluesky Capital, which the club’s accounts say is “controlled by” Moshiri, are not secured – suggesting administration would leave that company nursing huge losses. The 94% stake in Everton, which is held by a Moshiri Isle of Man company, would probably also be worthless."



And Sean Dyche is bemoaning the fact that he might have to sell some of his better players!!!!!!

Won’t take long

[Sutekh]

Is there a points sanction for entering administration while in the PL? If so I presume Everton fans will have more "unfairness" to whine about next season.

[Franchise FC]

Is there a points sanction for entering administration while in the PL? If so I presume Everton fans will have more "unfairness" to whine about next season.

Wasn’t there some rumour that Everton were going to try going into administration now to avoid the points deduction next season because they’d still be safe this ?
Wonder if the same rule applies in the PL as the EFL and that would be applied next season anyway

If it happens at all, of course

[From Despair To Where?]

Is there a points sanction for entering administration while in the PL? If so I presume Everton fans will have more "unfairness" to whine about next season.

Wasn’t there some rumour that Everton were going to try going into administration now to avoid the points deduction next season because they’d still be safe this ?
Wonder if the same rule applies in the PL as the EFL and that would be applied next season anyway

If it happens at all, of course

I think it will happen. They've just taken out another £150m loan with a Vibrac type company to finish the stadium. Can't see 777 completing the sale so I really don't know where else they go from here.

[Sutekh]

Is there a points sanction for entering administration while in the PL? If so I presume Everton fans will have more "unfairness" to whine about next season.

Wasn’t there some rumour that Everton were going to try going into administration now to avoid the points deduction next season because they’d still be safe this ?
Wonder if the same rule applies in the PL as the EFL and that would be applied next season anyway

If it happens at all, of course

I think it will happen. They've just taken out another £150m loan with a Vibrac type company to finish the stadium. Can't see 777 completing the sale so I really don't know where else they go from here.

Mr Dai will hopefully soon be free to look for a new club.

[Winston Biscuit]

777 Partners: Josh Wander, his sister Mollie and Steven Pasko have resigned from their positions as managers of 777 Partners LLC and 600 Partners LLC, which controls, through Nutmeg Acquisitions LLC, all of their football operations

[From Despair To Where?]

Well, that doesn't sound like good news for Everton.

[Winston Biscuit]

Keiran Maguire saying Leeds have 'outstanding transfer fee creditors of £190m'

Strewth

[Franchise FC]

Keiran Maguire saying Leeds have 'outstanding transfer fee creditors of £190m'

Strewth

I don’t think that’s new news
Still can’t see how they’ve got away with it so far

[Sutekh]

Keiran Maguire saying Leeds have 'outstanding transfer fee creditors of £190m'

Strewth

I don’t think that’s new news
Still can’t see how they’ve got away with it so far

Their "name" gives them special powers in the FL.

[Sanguine]

It's not a surprise to read this from Klopp, but remains refreshing to hear. From a Q&A hosted in Liverpool for fans last night, asked whether FSG held the purse-strings too tightly. Especially the final paragraph, which is a reference to Chelsea.

“Can you imagine LFC as the club with unlimited money?” said Klopp. “Imagine Kylian Mbappé came here. Imagine Bellingham came here, Haaland. It is not us, it just does not fit. We won what we won and we did it the Liverpool way. We had hard conversations and other clubs didn’t do that in the same time.

“We built two new stands, a new training ground, we bought Melwood back – the dumbest idea I ever heard was that we sold it in the first place. The owners do what owners do. Surprise! The owners want to earn money. Sorry to tell you that. It’s not like they earn money on a daily basis: they invest something and that’s how the whole world goes.

“We should be really happy that we have these owners and not guys who bought London clubs and other stuff. I wouldn’t have survived a year at Liverpool (with them in charge). ‘Great development but not good enough, sack him!’ A year later: ‘Sack him’. Then finally they play football where people think they might be back and they sack the manager anyway. People always think the grass is greener but we have owners who really feel responsible for the club and work really hard as well to be successful. I felt supported. We did it as good as we could have done and I’m fine with it.”

[Sutekh]

It's not a surprise to read this from Klopp, but remains refreshing to hear. From a Q&A hosted in Liverpool for fans last night, asked whether FSG held the purse-strings too tightly. Especially the final paragraph, which is a reference to Chelsea.

“Can you imagine LFC as the club with unlimited money?” said Klopp. “Imagine Kylian Mbappé came here. Imagine Bellingham came here, Haaland. It is not us, it just does not fit. We won what we won and we did it the Liverpool way. We had hard conversations and other clubs didn’t do that in the same time.

“We built two new stands, a new training ground, we bought Melwood back – the dumbest idea I ever heard was that we sold it in the first place. The owners do what owners do. Surprise! The owners want to earn money. Sorry to tell you that. It’s not like they earn money on a daily basis: they invest something and that’s how the whole world goes.

“We should be really happy that we have these owners and not guys who bought London clubs and other stuff. I wouldn’t have survived a year at Liverpool (with them in charge). ‘Great development but not good enough, sack him!’ A year later: ‘Sack him’. Then finally they play football where people think they might be back and they sack the manager anyway. People always think the grass is greener but we have owners who really feel responsible for the club and work really hard as well to be successful. I felt supported. We did it as good as we could have done and I’m fine with it.”

Have to say Liverpool are probably the best run of the elite clubs in the world and club football would be better if more clubs played their financial affairs in the same way, but then that'd mean the possibility of not winning things consistently

[From Despair To Where?]

It's how FSG run all their teams. It's a cliche to say *Moneyball" but they look for value in every deal.

[BRO_BOT]

Yeah, they ran on a shoestring with the second most expensive goalkeeper ever, one of the most expensive CB's ever. They also got gazumped on Caicedo (117M Euros). They've bought some excellent value players, no doubt, but let's have it right!

Nunez: 85
VVD: 84
Szobozlai: 70
Alison: 62
Keita: 60
etc

figures in euros from transfermarkt

[Sutekh]

Yeah, they ran on a shoestring with the second most expensive goalkeeper ever, one of the most expensive CB's ever. They also got gazumped on Caicedo (117M Euros). They've bought some excellent value players, no doubt, but let's have it right!

Nunez: 85
VVD: 84
Szobozlai: 70
Alison: 62
Keita: 60
etc

figures in euros from transfermarkt

Think you'll find many of their purchases are supported by their player sales which and helps explain why they don't get into bidding wars over the likes of Bellingham or Mbappe or whoever the latest hot stars are.